Poll: How much do your parents make?

[Peterock]

yes, MOST people are just like their parents. But everyone knows there are plenty of poor people at schools like Harvard(if these poor people got into harvard, why couldnt the others?), even for ugrad, and once they get into such a great college, they should have no trouble getting into medschool...
i myself went into an inner city school and my parents were on welfare and came from a 3rd world country(but somehow they're no longer poor). i know there were people at my school that went to better colleges than i (and i can tell you it was on their merit) and there were those that didnt go on to college at all. it wasnt because they were more poor, but because they were more stupid or just werent interested in education.

and if a poor person couldnt get into a good college, or couldnt get good grades in college or didnt go to college, but is so interested in medicine, why doesnt he get a job as a fireman, paramedic, or a nurse?? i mean he can work for a few years and save some money and dedicate more time to educatin... or how about army medic, they would pay for his school after he gets out..

and if you think poor people are disadvantaged in school admissions, i bet if you take the IQ tests for the poor and the rich at any particular school, you will not notice that the poorer a group of people the higher their IQ, most likely it's the opposite.

SAT/MCAT/GRE exams, as well as any IQ test is easily prepped for... and this is a problem. The idea of IQ's is that one's IQ should be constant throughout a lifetime, but this is not the case as people have clearly shown that one can easily study for all types of standardized exams. Since rich people are exposed to more education and educational opportunities, it becomes obvious that they will do better on IQ tests even though they are not inherently smarter. IQ tests have a long history of being highly discriminatory to immigrants and poorer people. I won't go into this any further.

Education is worthless if it is not given at the appropriate times . This is easily understood when we talk about language acquisition. Learning a second language by the time you're in your 20's is almost pointless as different parts of the brain are engaged. If your parents do not focus you on academics and you are not outrageously gifted, most mainstream educational opportunities will pass you by, even if you work that much harder as an adult. Do you really think a 35-year-old man will ever be able to read as well as me? Of course not. This idea that they can go into a career, work full time and study is ridiculous.

Honestly, as an immigrant in this country, you didn't have a huge shot at being socially accepted. Please don't pretend that your background didn't socially isolate you. Academics is one of the few areas you've got where you can actually be recognized for your work and attain relatively equal opportunities in occupational/educational upward movement. Please do not assume that your interest in education is something that could possibly be reflected by every poor person out there. Many poor people are not born to parents who can give them the tools to utilize their education, but a statement claiming that people are just like their parents is narrow and close-minded. You might have been poor for awhile, but what kind of education did your parents have? You mentioned that they are not poor anymore, but were upwardly mobile.
This is not typical of most poor individuals and medical school adcoms have seen plenty of students like you.

Yes, I am a "poor" person who attended a top 10 undergraduate institution and my standardized test scores were at least average for Harvard's when I was a HS senior. I am also attending medical school on a scholarship. As hard as I've worked, to this day, I still think I had a lot of luck in my life getting me to this point. Any other idea would be arrogant.

Because one or two poor people can make it to Harvard's level means that their is true equity in our educational system is disgusting and ignorant. Remember, that not every poor person is like you. Going to a top notch school thrusts an unusually talented person into a group of people that are vastly different in terms of socioeconomic background and previous education. There are plenty of poor students who fail. While you may have had to deal with the burden of culturally different from your peers from an early age, this is not something that is normal for most poor studetns, who have grown up with plenty of peers in the past. Since most good schools are teeming with middle and upper middle class students; it creates an environment that is alienating and distant to a poor student.

Please do not think I talk solely from my experiences. There are plenty of much more eloquent writers who have stated the very same thing. Education is more than just being intelligent: it's about working hard, being exposed to problems at the right time, it's about having a support system from both your family and your school, and it's about working with other people over a unified goal. As a social being, I have found nothing more isolating than being surrounded by intelligent people that I would consider rich (who have vastly different values/interests than I do), and then realizing that the people I grew up with and care about most can never follow or understand the path I follow (try explaining biocompatible polymer synthesis to a 50 year old woman with a HS education).

This idea that poor people are not capable of being educated or are not intelligent is flat out racist. Intelligence is not reflected by how much money you make, and the last time I checked education is a business. Please understand that there is a difference between intelligence and education before you post on that matter.

 

[mastamark]

I agree, if my parents didn’t have money, I would not be able to afford to go to med school. It takes too long, applying is expensive, and the road to becoming a physician entails many opportunities for one to accrue debt. If you don't already have money, it takes much more sacrifice, good planning, and determination to become a doctor.

And the doctor I want performing my appendectomy is.....drumroll please. I am inclined to think that the person that has sacrificed a lot and had the ambition to reach his goal would make a greater physician; however this is a whole new discussion.

 

[infinite_dreams]

Great reply Peterock!! 👍 Everything I was just about to say in reponse, but you did it first!

SAT/MCAT/GRE exams, as well as any IQ test is easily prepped for... and this is a problem. The idea of IQ's is that one's IQ should be constant throughout a lifetime, but this is not the case as people have clearly shown that one can easily study for all types of standardized exams. Since rich people are exposed to more education and educational opportunities, it becomes obvious that they will do better on IQ tests even though they are not inherently smarter. IQ tests have a long history of being highly discriminatory to immigrants and poorer people. I won't go into this any further.

Education is worthless if it is not given at the appropriate times . This is easily understood when we talk about language acquisition. Learning a second language by the time you're in your 20's is almost pointless as different parts of the brain are engaged. If your parents do not focus you on academics and you are not outrageously gifted, most mainstream educational opportunities will pass you by, even if you work that much harder as an adult. Do you really think a 35-year-old man will ever be able to read as well as me? Of course not. This idea that they can go into a career, work full time and study is ridiculous.

Honestly, as an immigrant in this country, you didn't have a huge shot at being socially accepted. Please don't pretend that your background didn't socially isolate you. Academics is one of the few areas you've got where you can actually be recognized for your work and attain relatively equal opportunities in occupational/educational upward movement. Please do not assume that your interest in education is something that could possibly be reflected by every poor person out there. Many poor people are not born to parents who can give them the tools to utilize their education, but a statement claiming that people are just like their parents is narrow and close-minded. You might have been poor for awhile, but what kind of education did your parents have? You mentioned that they are not poor anymore, but were upwardly mobile.
This is not typical of most poor individuals and medical school adcoms have seen plenty of students like you.

Yes, I am a "poor" person who attended a top 10 undergraduate institution and my standardized test scores were at least average for Harvard's when I was a HS senior. I am also attending medical school on a scholarship. As hard as I've worked, to this day, I still think I had a lot of luck in my life getting me to this point. Any other idea would be arrogant.

Because one or two poor people can make it to Harvard's level means that their is true equity in our educational system is disgusting and ignorant. Remember, that not every poor person is like you. Going to a top notch school thrusts an unusually talented person into a group of people that are vastly different in terms of socioeconomic background and previous education. There are plenty of poor students who fail. While you may have had to deal with the burden of culturally different from your peers from an early age, this is not something that is normal for most poor studetns, who have grown up with plenty of peers in the past. Since most good schools are teeming with middle and upper middle class students; it creates an environment that is alienating and distant to a poor student.

Please do not think I talk solely from my experiences. There are plenty of much more eloquent writers who have stated the very same thing. Education is more than just being intelligent: it's about working hard, being exposed to problems at the right time, it's about having a support system from both your family and your school, and it's about working with other people over a unified goal. As a social being, I have found nothing more isolating than being surrounded by intelligent people that I would consider rich (who have vastly different values/interests than I do), and then realizing that the people I grew up with and care about most can never follow or understand the path I follow (try explaining biocompatible polymer synthesis to a 50 year old woman with a HS education).

This idea that poor people are not capable of being educated or are not intelligent is flat out racist. Intelligence is not reflected by how much money you make, and the last time I checked education is a business. Please understand that there is a difference between intelligence and education before you post on that matter.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

You also see people from poor families go into medicine just for the money. People with the wrong reasons are everywhere.

so true 🙁

 

[Kazema]

[An awesome post]

Well said.

I always enjoy hearing someone who's grown up with every privilege saying stuff like, "If poor people want the same opportunities as us, all they have to do is get a job like a fireman or a soldier, work for a few years, and then they'll be able to afford higher education." That's basically saying that it's their own fault for being born and growing up in a horrible area with laughable schools that could not possibly prepare them for college. Everyone loves to blame people for having problems.

Sure, some poor people are lazy and stupid. But so are some rich people (Paris Hilton anyone?). And some middle class people. Take the same person and raise him or her in a poor family, a middle class family, and a rich family, and in which situation do you think he/she would turn out best?

Why don't all you people who sit around complaining about how poor people who get admissions advantages should instead have to just work harder to get in work harder yourselves? Follow your own damn advice.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Well said.

I always enjoy hearing someone who's grown up with every privilege saying stuff like, "If poor people want the same opportunities as us, all they have to do is get a job like a fireman or a soldier, work for a few years, and then they'll be able to afford higher education." That's basically saying that it's their own fault for being born and growing up in a horrible area with laughable schools that could not possibly prepare them for college. Everyone loves to blame people for having problems.

Sure, some poor people are lazy and stupid. But so are some rich people (Paris Hilton anyone?). And some middle class people. Take the same person and raise him or her in a poor family, a middle class family, and a rich family, and in which situation do you think he/she would turn out best?

Why don't all you people who sit around complaining about how poor people who get admissions advantages should instead have to just work harder to get in work harder yourselves? Follow your own damn advice.

agreed. however if any person rises to the occaison, seeks out opportunities and works hard he can be successful regardless of his background. And i certainly give more credit to those who came from poor backgrounds and made it; they should truly be commended.

 

[Kazema]

agreed. however if any person rises to the occaison, seeks out opportunities and works hard he can be successful regardless of his background. And i certainly give more credit to those who came from poor backgrounds and made it; they should truly be commended.

That's certainly true too. Some people are just meant to be successful, no matter where they start out from. But for most people, I think where they start from determines where they end up to a large degree.

 

[jbrice1639]

This idea that poor people are not capable of being educated or are not intelligent is flat out racist. Intelligence is not reflected by how much money you make, and the last time I checked education is a business. Please understand that there is a difference between intelligence and education before you post on that matter.

I thought this post was awesome (as did quite a few others apparently), but I have to ask, how exactly is it racist to have any opinion about poor people? Which race would that be prejudiced against? Last time I checked, there were poor folks of every race out there...so I'm not sure that race is really an issue in whether or not poor people can or cannot be educated.

 

[Hoberto]

I think everyone can come up with an anecdote to support their opinion.

Can anyone really deny that the economic divide in the US cannot be fixed by giving people educational opportunities and other help later in life? These problems need to be addressed in childhood. Students need a quality education from day one. It is often too late when that child is 20 years old to try to teach him or her all that was missed in grade/junior and high school. Yes, it is possible to get a GED and then go to community college and take the 0010 classes to try to catch up. It just isn't probable.

I wish I knew how to fix this problem. If we don't have the money to help both the young child and the teenager maybe we might need to sacrifice the older students and focus our resources on those in grade school. I just don't know.

Anecdote: It's very frustrating to know people who are desperately trying to go to school, raise children, work fulltime, and take care of elderly parents who easily have 4-5 years of school left merely to finish an LPN degree. It is, of course, even more frustrating to the student.

 

[madison06]

financial aid offered by amcas to cover some of the the cost on your MCAT and 2ndary application fees is more difficult than you'd think to get. I was deferred, and my parents make 35K a year combined. 😡

I agree, it would be difficult to recieve that help, you'd have to be dirt poor to get it.

 

[Peterock]

I thought this post was awesome (as did quite a few others apparently), but I have to ask, how exactly is it racist to have any opinion about poor people? Which race would that be prejudiced against? Last time I checked, there were poor folks of every race out there...so I'm not sure that race is really an issue in whether or not poor people can or cannot be educated.

Well "racist" is usually defined by a person discriminating against another person/group because of racial or religious backgrounds. I think the way most people use the term "poor people" establishes it as a group or race of people.

For example, poor people and their children are less intelligent than rich people and their offspring. Since many people assume this difference to not be based on background, but on hereditary differences we now have a group of genetically unique people - "poor people". It's the same logic as defining other groups of people on really very random similarities (ie grouping people together based on their skin tone, religious beliefs, or in this case, bank account size, etc) and then believing that all these people share other similarities.

So yes, racist. Though I'm sure other words could have fit as well!

 

[Kazema]

"Classism" maybe?

It's some kind of -ism anyway.

 

[Peterock]

"Classism" maybe?

It's some kind of -ism anyway.

I still think it goes beyond that, since people are referring to poor people as an entire group with genetic uniformities...

However... I'm just a chemistry major damnit! We're exhausting my limited writing ability.

 

[45408]

I still think it goes beyond that, since people are referring to poor people as an entire group with genetic uniformities...

However... I'm just a chemistry major damnit! We're exhausting my limited writing ability.

haha, I was reading through some of your earlier posts thinking, "He majored in the sciences.....why?"

Good stuff.

 

[gujuDoc]

"Classism" maybe?

It's some kind of -ism anyway.

Actually, yah this would be the correct term. When I was in sociology, back in the day, they taught us that there are different sort of 'isms that refer to different sort of discriminations.

Classism would be the proper term for poor vs. rich generalities

Racism would be for people a particular race (I.e. african american, asian, caucasian, etc.)

sexism (well this one is obvious)

You get the idea.

 

[tank you]

just curious: why did you choose 160k as the cutoff??

 

[Ross434]

just curious: why did you choose 160k as the cutoff??

Because it's near the 90th percentile, but it's a little bit wider. I didnt want to cut people off at 170k.

 

[SuperTrooper]

I'm definitely not from a rich family. Neither of my parents went to college or even finished high school. My dad was one of 12 and my mom was one of 7. I myself am the youngest of 8.

What's the deal with having so many damn children? duqdoc184, did you live on a farm or something that required a lot strong burly sons? If not, i just don't get it. Is this like a religious thing: you aren't allowed to use birth control? Please somebody explain. Because I think having 7 children is a bit much. What will having 7 children provide that 3 or 4 won't?

 

[alansda]

Weird, I cannot see Peterock's intelligent posts anywhere, but can only read them from someone else's attached quote of the post.

 

[kalenakai]

Not me

ditto that.

 

[novawildcat]

Dad=Nurse
Mom=Social worker


Of course the poor get f***ed in the a$$ by the system, they always will. Thats why the saying goes " The rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

$80,000 for an undergraduate education
$1,500 for MCAT prep course
$100 per MCAT prep book guide
$200 for MCAT fees
$500+ for Med School App fees
$200,000 for Med School


According to the US government a family of 4 living off of $19,350 or less is living in poverty. Do you actually think some poor kid coming from a family that has an income of only 20k per year could even afford an MCAT prep book let alone an undergraduate eduation?


On the other hand the attitude that we should give leniency in admissions to kids who come from poor backgrounds can be dangerous. What happens to all us in the middle? We aren't poor and we aren't rich. Maybe we would have been better off if we were poor so that we could check of the box that says family income <20,000 and get into a better school.

 

[gujuDoc]

What's the deal with having so many damn children? duqdoc184, did you live on a farm or something that required a lot strong burly sons? If not, i just don't get it. Is this like a religious thing: you aren't allowed to use birth control? Please somebody explain. Because I think having 7 children is a bit much. What will having 7 children provide that 3 or 4 won't?

I have a friend that is one of 8. But it may be due to the fact that she's from a developing country where birth control is not really thought much and the means to the pill, etc. are not as easily available.

A lot of Asian countries don't have the easy means we have to birth control. They don't have the education on birth control and birth control practices. This leads to a lot of kids i.e. 5-10 kids in a given family. Such is the case of my own mom's family.

 

[gujuDoc]

Weird, I cannot see Peterock's intelligent posts anywhere, but can only read them from someone else's attached quote of the post.

I think he may have done something to his account, like erased all his posts, etc. when he started medical school. I remember him always saying he didn't understand how we had time to be on here, when he never had any time in college. So I'm sure now that he's back in school again, he has stopped posting.

 

[LucidSplash]

This is an interesting thread. I don't know what (if anything) it will add, but I thought I'd throw my own personal experience in here just for the sake of discussion.

I'm someone whom, you might say, has one foot on either side of the fence.

On my mother's side, almost no one has ever gone to college. Years ago, my mother started to work towards a nursing degree, but ended up dropping out. She had me at 25 (my parents were not married) and worked a series of minimum wage jobs for years. She married a man that turned out to be a drug addict and career criminal and had my brother and sister (who are 6 and 8 years younger than me, respectively). She eventually earned an associates degree in accounting and divorced her first husband - one might think that would improve the situation somewhat, but unfortunately my mother has an entire host of personal issues herself that resulted in her inability to hold a job and our living below the poverty line for my entire life. She married a second time to a widower with 3 children but they divorced after my mother left during the summer between my junior and senior year of college.

My father did not finish college either. However, his grandfather, father, uncle, and sister were/are all successful physicians. There a couple of lawyers in the family, and other well-educated individuals. My father operates his own business and is financially very successful - has a house at the beach, goes on international vacations frequently, etc. My half-sister (16 years younger than me) is in private school. The family has a history of social and economically privileged existence.

Me? I went to a decent small liberal arts college with an enormous price tag. I paid for college through loans and a large scholarship. My father did not help, and my mother couldn't afford it, though even if she could I don't think she would have. I have a degree in Biochemistry. I'm 23, in a stable and beneficial marriage, have a good job with a biotech, am applying to medical school, and spend a lot of time trying to help my brother and sister break out of the cycle my mother has set up through the way in which she lives her life. My brother has dropped out of high school and lives with his uncle, unemployed. My sister is still in school; last year her grades were mediocre for the beginning of the year, but improved later in the year. We'll see what happens this year.

I am in the unique position of seeing what my life might have been like if I had only been influenced by my father's family or my mother's family alone. Being exposed to my father's family gave me the knowledge that if I didn't like my life there WAS another option out there and that I was the determining factor in what happened. My brother and sister did not have that (as they are half-siblings). My brother (like my mother) hates his life but spends all his time blaming everyone else around him and never looks at what he can do to change it. He has rejected my offers of assistance. I'm trying to be that lifeline for my sister, and the jury is still out.

What's the point of this post? Obviously, this is just another anecdote. But from my vantage point, people who come from financially stable and historically successful families often have a better chance at success because, in short, they are surrounded by people who know how the system works. They are exposed to lifestyles and habits that, while not ensuring more successful attitudes towards life and work, at the very least set them up for success by providing a better example. Some people on the other end of the spectrum simply do not have any idea how the system works, and they often unknowingly perpetuate destructive ways of thinking and doing that dramatically decrease their chances of breaking out of the lifestyle they have always known.

Neither side should be judged as a general category because we're all intelligent enough to recognize that stereotypes are really only broad categories that only end up fitting a few people anyway and so usually end up being of limited usefulness.

I think that was a bit rambly, but hey, that's what happens when you decide to throw your two cents in to a long running conversation.... 🙂

 

[eshanim]

ok i guess i'll be one of the first people to break the trends here, but my father is a physician. i don't think i ever grew up considering myself to be 'rich', but i can definitely say i grew up more than comfortably and worked hard to show my appreciation. my parents never allowed my siblings and i to grow up thinking we were rich, because in their eyes (and as it should be), it wasn't our money or earned finances, but my parents'.

i think there's a really distinct line between being 'wealthy' and being 'rich', though. and i'm not trying to bite chris rock here, but it's so very true. rich is what can be labelled after one generation of income, or at least a very few generations of income. or, i guess, more like 'well off'. which is what my father would be, considering my grandparents lived pretty much on the lower middle class level in bombay so his income and earnings has nothing to do with any past generation in our family. to me, wealth is something that you are born with, a birthright, a family inheritance. maybe the mindset is different between these two?

also, isn't that quite a large gap between 40K and 100K?

 

[Darth Asclepius]

also, isn't that quite a large gap between 40K and 100K?

That's exactly what I thought! There's a HUGE gap there and it doesn't seem like an appropriate range. Yes, there is just as big of a gap in his 100-160k range, but there's a bigger difference in 40k (could be a family that yes, has food and clothes and a house to live in, but a lot of debt and limited, if any, resources to help with education) and 100k (more likely to be able to support a kid in college).

As for the advantage for rich kids thing, I think there is one, but most people from less advantage backgrounds can still make it- but they will have to work much harder to get there and might have a much more difficult time getting into a top school if that's their goal. It's much more difficult to get good extracurriculars, leadership experience, shadowing experience, great grades, etc, while you are working full time. As for the MCAT prep course, I think it's a waste of money anyway. Many of my pre-med classmates thought I was crazy for not taking it. Seriously. "I can't believe you're not taking Kaplan. You'll surely fail the MCAT." Is it that hard to believe that someone working their way through school wouldn't have an extra $1500 for that? Note- I studied on my own and did significantly better than her. What I did find difficult was the application/interviewing process. My parents made too much for me to get help with AMCAS fees, but not enough to pay for all of this for me (they have their own bills to pay). The application fees sucked up all my savings, then the interviews came. I was able to pay for some, but had to hit up my gradma for two plane tickets. I was lucky that I had someone that could help me out. Some people don't have that and I honestly don't know how they do it.

note about parents' income for med school financial aid - you don't have to tell them if you don't want to, but they won't consider you for certain need-based scholarships if you don't. You can still apply for loans, but yes, you'll be needing your dad's tax info for your financial aid apps even in med school.