Pop Psychology

[RxPsych]

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Bringing this up because one of my longtime friends sent me this link and encouraged me to check it out:

Seven Primal Questions

www.primalquestion.com

The person that created this "primal question" is speaking at a well-known event that my friend is attending. He said, "since he is speaking at the event, he must be legit." How do you all handle conversations about things like this with friends and family? I tend to provide short responses that do not fully entail my true distaste unless they ask for my opinion, in which I kindly and briefly express my thoughts.

Similarly, when people mention things like enneagram, MBTI, etc. The number of pigs with lipstick in this field is astounding. Only occasionally do I have the thought of selling out, creating some gimmicky questionnaire loosely based in psychological theory but with no psychometric backing, and making millions...

 

[PsyDr]

1) Same logic as financial gurus: If these people had all the answers, then they would either
a. keep their answers very quiet to maintain the value of their product, have a very very private client list, and the means to show it.
b. be at the most prestigious academic setting in the world.

It's like those people that say, "I'll teach you how to get 100% daily ROI !". Yeah bud, because you know how to become the wealthiest person in US history in 60 days.

2) I'll tell you what a mentor told me about psychoanalysis:

Have you ever seen a happy psychoanalyst? Then maybe you shouldn't go to those people for advice about happiness.

 

[Sanman]

Bringing this up because one of my longtime friends sent me this link and encouraged me to check it out:

Seven Primal Questions

www.primalquestion.com

The person that created this "primal question" is speaking at a well-known event that my friend is attending. He said, "since he is speaking at the event, he must be legit." How do you all handle conversations about things like this with friends and family? I tend to provide short responses that do not fully entail my true distaste unless they ask for my opinion, in which I kindly and briefly express my thoughts.

Similarly, when people mention things like enneagram, MBTI, etc. The number of pigs with lipstick in this field is astounding. Only occasionally do I have the thought of selling out, creating some gimmicky questionnaire loosely based in psychological theory but with no psychometric backing, and making millions...

What field is that exactly? I am a licensed psychologist. I don't work in the self-help/actualization/pop culture genre where no one has any credentials.

 

[RxPsych]

What field is that exactly? I am a licensed psychologist. I don't work in the self-help/actualization/pop culture genre where no one has any credentials.

The website states it is "backed by psychology. Proven in real life." It goes on, "5 years of research, over 100,000 assessments, 6,000 hours of interviews, 22 group labs..." and when I try to find more info about this research, assessments, interviews, etc. it is conveniently nowhere to be found. So it appears he is claiming this is supported by psychological research.

 

[DoubtfulDoc]

Yikes, yeah I feel you. The majority of psychotherapy providers I work with eat up that stuff like candy. I usually just say “I’m not very familiar with it. “ and then I may add, “is it in a clinical practice guideline you can point me to?” Or “I’d love to see one of its RCTs (or meta analysis or systematic review) if you wouldn’t mind sharing” if they know what those are. I only directly challenge that stuff if I’m explicitly brought on as a consultant like when I’m doing an assessment and I see something in the record about something pseudoscientific or unsupported.

 

[PsyDr]

I went through their questionnaire. It’s just Maslow stuff made into question, with “do I feel like I am safe? Do I feel like I make a difference to society?”, etc

 

[Sanman]

The website states it is "backed by psychology. Proven in real life." It goes on, "5 years of research, over 100,000 assessments, 6,000 hours of interviews, 22 group labs..." and when I try to find more info about this research, assessments, interviews, etc. it is conveniently nowhere to be found. So it appears he is claiming this is supported by psychological research.

So, he read an intro psych textbook and learned about Maslow's hierarchy? It's dumb but not sure if it is doing any harm. If you lack food and shelter, sort that out before sorting out your feelings.

 

[hum1]

Have you ever seen a happy psychoanalyst? Then maybe you shouldn't go to those people for advice about happiness.

Freud wrote that "Much will be gained if we succeed in transforming your hysterical misery into common unhappiness.". The goals of psychoanalytic treatment is not happiness.

 

[PsyDr]

Freud wrote that "Much will be gained if we succeed in transforming your hysterical misery into common unhappiness.". The goals of psychoanalytic treatment is not happiness.

Freud also said something like, "Max, I need a lethal dose of morphine to kill myself". How does Freud's suicide factor into the goals of psychoanalysis?

*I think psychoanalysis is a decent method of self understanding, and provides some very decent terms to describe behaviors. However, I think there is an inherent narcissism to the psychoanalytic position that it is about self discovery not treatment. Imagine getting that from an oncologist. "I'll help you understand how your oral cancer is working, so you understand what is going on inside you. Good luck!".

 

[thebalmofhurtminds]

Freud also said something like, "Max, I need a lethal dose of morphine to kill myself". How does Freud's suicide factor into the goals of psychoanalysis?

*I think psychoanalysis is a decent method of self understanding, and provides some very decent terms to describe behaviors. However, I think there is an inherent narcissism to the psychoanalytic position that it is about self discovery not treatment. Imagine getting that from an oncologist. "I'll help you understand how your oral cancer is working, so you understand what is going on inside you. Good luck!".

I love this description, really resonates with my frustration with a more psychoanalytic approach. Sure, we could spend a ton of time analyzing your insomnia, but might help your sleep deprivation if we focused more on the behavioral treatment to fix it.

 

[hum1]

Freud also said something like, "Max, I need a lethal dose of morphine to kill myself". How does Freud's suicide factor into the goals of psychoanalysis?

I believe it is very important to be critical of psychoanalysis, however there is also the risk of depicting it as a straw-man theory.

Freud asked his personal physician to give him a lethal dosage of morphine when Freud was in severe pain from his jaw cancer and after being operated several times for it. Freud was 83 years old and probably depressed after having to leave his beloved Vienna for London due to Nazi persecution. His views on common unhappiness are due to the fact that Freud lived in Victorian Vienna which demanded the repression of sexual and aggressive instincts, and therefore he believed that for us to live in society we needed to renounce our sexual instincts and would never be completely happy and fulfilled because we would not be able to simply fully express and fulfill our desires.

"I'll help you understand how your oral cancer is working, so you understand what is going on inside you. Good luck!".

Using your argument, if someone has cancer, I agree that it is not a good idea to seek psychoanalysis, or any other type of psychotherapy, to be a treatment for cancer. If you are implying that mental health issues are simply biological disorders, then I also do not think that anyone should seek psychoanalysis for treatment, or any other psychological treatments. In general, psychological treatments presuppose that mental health issues are psychogenic in nature and are treated using psychological principles and interventions. Of course that this is more complicated that this, because we cannot simply accept the Cartesian subject and separate psyche from body and these are in constant interaction. However, to my knowledge, there is no evidence that mental health disorders are simply biologically determined. If so, patients should seek psychiatrists or neurologists for treatment, and not psychoanalysts nor psychologists. We assume that most problems are psychological in nature and are treatable through psychological interventions.

Sure, we could spend a ton of time analyzing your insomnia, but might help your sleep deprivation if we focused more on the behavioral treatment to fix it.

Psychoanalysis assumes that the symptom is not the problem. The symptom is a manifestation of a problem in living, in dealing with the body, instincts, desire, love, relationships, etc. I once had a patient who came to psychotherapy saying that he did not want to talk about his symptoms, nor to think about his symptoms, he simply wanted me to treat him and get rid of his symptoms without him being slightly implied in treatment. I am not a psychoanalyst but to me this sounded like an impossible request. So yes, if patients do not want to understand who they are and why they have developed certain symptoms, they can choose a psychological treatment that focuses on the removal of symptoms. However, there are people who do want to understand who they are and why they suffer the way that they suffer, and these are better candidates for analysis. Psychoanalysis is not for everyone and it is very good that patients, and psychologists, have choices in terms of treatment modalities.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Psychoanalysis assumes that the symptom is not the problem is abject pseudoscience.

FTFY

 

[PsyDr]

I believe it is very important to be critical of psychoanalysis, however there is also the risk of depicting it as a straw-man theory.

Freud asked his personal physician to give him a lethal dosage of morphine when Freud was in severe pain from his jaw cancer and after being operated several times for it. Freud was 83 years old and probably depressed after having to leave his beloved Vienna for London due to Nazi persecution. His views on common unhappiness are due to the fact that Freud lived in Victorian Vienna which demanded the repression of sexual and aggressive instincts, and therefore he believed that for us to live in society we needed to renounce our sexual instincts and would never be completely happy and fulfilled because we would not be able to simply fully express and fulfill our desires.



Using your argument, if someone has cancer, I agree that it is not a good idea to seek psychoanalysis, or any other type of psychotherapy, to be a treatment for cancer. If you are implying that mental health issues are simply biological disorders, then I also do not think that anyone should seek psychoanalysis for treatment, or any other psychological treatments. In general, psychological treatments presuppose that mental health issues are psychogenic in nature and are treated using psychological principles and interventions. Of course that this is more complicated that this, because we cannot simply accept the Cartesian subject and separate psyche from body and these are in constant interaction. However, to my knowledge, there is no evidence that mental health disorders are simply biologically determined. If so, patients should seek psychiatrists or neurologists for treatment, and not psychoanalysts nor psychologists. We assume that most problems are psychological in nature and are treatable through psychological interventions.



Psychoanalysis assumes that the symptom is not the problem. The symptom is a manifestation of a problem in living, in dealing with the body, instincts, desire, love, relationships, etc. I once had a patient who came to psychotherapy saying that he did not want to talk about his symptoms, nor to think about his symptoms, he simply wanted me to treat him and get rid of his symptoms without him being slightly implied in treatment. I am not a psychoanalyst but to me this sounded like an impossible request. So yes, if patients do not want to understand who they are and why they have developed certain symptoms, they can choose a psychological treatment that focuses on the removal of symptoms. However, there are people who do want to understand who they are and why they suffer the way that they suffer, and these are better candidates for analysis. Psychoanalysis is not for everyone and it is very good that patients, and psychologists, have choices in terms of treatment modalities.

1) Someone makes a joke about a subject, that crams an obscure fact, the name of the substance and the name of the physician into one sentence, and your move is to give a rudimentary lecture?

2) You’re now conflating evidence based psychological treatments with psychoanalysis, assuming that most problems are psychological, and that explaining a problem is the same as getting psychoanalysis for cancer? No. You can’t pass those false equivalences unnoticed. Sloppy work.

3) Freuds suicide proves that mental health problems are biological. He dead. Unless he has become part of the Thanatian drive, that destroys all cells, his problems are over. Same for Lanzer.

 

[MCParent]

Hot take on pop psych:

Scientists in general get zero training in public messaging. So what else happens than people who barely understand it trying to make a buck, or just plain charlatans? I’ve seen psychologists get regarded like they’re slumlords because they write a research-backed self help book.

Not that this is endemic to psych. I feel like nutritionists have it really bad in regard to a combo of puffery and the public just not wanting to know what is actually true in that field.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This is why Sci Comms are so important.

Science Communicators.

 

[cara susanna]

Hot take on pop psych:

Scientists in general get zero training in public messaging. So what else happens than people who barely understand it trying to make a buck, or just plain charlatans? I’ve seen psychologists get regarded like they’re slumlords because they write a research-backed self help book.

Not that this is endemic to psych. I feel like nutritionists have it really bad in regard to a combo of puffery and the public just not wanting to know what is actually true in that field.

This is why EMDR is so much more popular than CPT and PE.