Possible new residency spots?

[pacpod]

The APMA newsletter sent out this morning stated that the CPME (as of March 8) has approved expansion of current programs for a total of 108 new positions. They have offered to waive CPME 345 Application for Increase in Positions, the $500 application fee, and will notify the programs who have been approved for expansion.

My question to current students, residents, and docs is this. How many of these do you realistically think will accept and open the positions?

Thanks for your input.

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[dtrack22]

I think you'll be lucky to need 2 hands to count them all, unfortunately. There are currently around 30 seats that are "inactive", meaning they are not funded or purposefully not being filled. With most of those (I believe) being due to directors not wanting to fill all of their seats. Out of the 108 new seats, I'd imagine only those that are in their 4-5th year and were looking to go from 1-2 residents all along (for example) will be the only ones who actually expand. But hey, 5 is better than none. The CPME did what they could.

 

[pacpod]

I think you'll be lucky to need 2 hands to count them all, unfortunately.

That is what I figured. You are right, five new spots are better than none. Thanks for your input.

 

[Sig Savant]

For three years now, we've been hearing about this residency shortage and how everyone is doing everything they can. How this is a crisis. How it is the number one priority. Committees have been started, people appointed to new positions to help. Yet here we sit with maybe 5 new spots? We've lost more than that in the last two weeks alone. Multiple programs are not taking residents and dropping out of CRIP - even more than are listed on the "What's New" tab on CASPR/CRIP.

Everyone did everything they could, and we all failed.

Let this be a lesson to third year students. You may have a residency spot locked down. Your father could be a residency director. It could be perfect. But that program may close in the period between rank and match, with extremely short notice, and no one can predict it. At least 5 programs have. You must have multiple back ups.

 

[mildoc2016]

Another good philosophy to have is not to burn bridges with any programs. You never know what will happen on match day

 

[ldsrmdude]

For three years now, we've been hearing about this residency shortage and how everyone is doing everything they can. How this is a crisis. How it is the number one priority. Committees have been started, people appointed to new positions to help. Yet here we sit with maybe 5 new spots? We've lost more than that in the last two weeks alone. Multiple programs are not taking residents and dropping out of CRIP - even more than are listed on the "What's New" tab on CASPR/CRIP.

Everyone did everything they could, and we all failed.

Let this be a lesson to third year students. You may have a residency spot locked down. Your father could be a residency director. It could be perfect. But that program may close in the period between rank and match, with extremely short notice, and no one can predict it. At least 5 programs have. You must have multiple back ups.

Unfortunately the amount of new programs that have opened up has been underwhelming to say the least. Many programs that are approved for expansion probably shouldn't expand. I'm still optimistic about the situation (and the profession) as a whole, and I understand that there are difficulties with starting new residencies (which I think is often better than expanding some of the same programs), but I'm a bit disappointed with how it's turned out.

 

[pacpod]

Unfortunately the amount of new programs that have opened up has been underwhelming to say the least. Many programs that are approved for expansion probably shouldn't expand. I'm still optimistic about the situation (and the profession) as a whole, and I understand that there are difficulties with starting new residencies (which I think is often better than expanding some of the same programs), but I'm a bit disappointed with how it's turned out.

Really, in the end, you have to think about how far podiatry has come both with residency and the profession overall. That helps me when hearing about the occasional bumps.

 

[dtrack22]

Since the sky seems to be falling here on SDN, I'll post some numbers:

There were (last I heard) 538 active residency spots with 568 CASPR applicants from the class of 2013. This was prior to a final part II pass rate. So if we apply a traditional 90% part II pass rate (after the 2nd admin), you get 512-ish 4th years competing for 538 spots. That leaves room for the most recent programs to close and for students who haven't matched in the past to land a few spots. Remember that pretty much EVERY year there are "qualified" graduates who still don't get residency positions and it has nothing to do with a "shortage". It's a direct product of some iffy admissions and academic requirements at certain schools. In the spring of 2012 there were 4th year students who had entered CASPR and still not passed part I...somebody let students continue to move through school despite that fact that they were not going to be eligible for residency, and then let them "graduate" because they had met the school's requirements (Boards are a licensing requirement and have nothing to do with a school's diploma).

Every year, around this time, some terrible residency shortage rumors/posts/fear mongering is done. It generally starts from a pre-pod and then is supported by students from a few of the schools who take absolutely ZERO responsibility for their students doing poorly on boards or not getting residency programs. I remember as a pre-pod, some 3rd and 4th years ("brodiatrist", I believe, was one of them) from a certain school who were told by their Dean that the shortage was real and that everyone else had failed them. It was the APMA's fault, the NBPME's fault, the CPME's fault, the Residency Directors' faults, etc. Well guess what, there has yet to be a true "shortage" and it looks like this year may be no different (depending on the 2nd time national pass rate for part II).

Has the residency genesis been slower and to this point less successful than we all hoped? Absolutely. Are you going to get a residency if you are an average student with an average work ethic? Absolutely. So I've yet to get worked up about it, personally.

 

[Sig Savant]

Are you going to get a residency if you are an average student with an average work ethic? Absolutely.

This is a very important point. Yes, there is some negativity right now, but if you are doing what you are told by upperclassmen and advisors, you will be okay. Many fourth year students right now have a very good idea where they are going and are very happy.

 

[that1guyfromFL]

So I've yet to get worked up about it, personally.

Which is surprising given your personal statistically verifiable 99.63% chance of being in the scramble.

 

[dtrack22]

When you're trying to scramble on purpose, yeah. See: "loves taking on more challenging tasks than necessary" in my CV

Scramble 2014, who's in?

 

[that1guyfromFL]

When you're trying to scramble on purpose, yeah. See: "loves taking on more challenging tasks than necessary" in my CV

I meant it as a compliment....

 

[dtrack22]

I meant it as a compliment....

That's how I took it. See also: "My biggest weakness is that I care too much," page 11 of my CV

 

[G0dFather]

Since the sky seems to be falling here on SDN, I'll post some numbers:

There were (last I heard) 538 active residency spots with 568 CASPR applicants from the class of 2013. This was prior to a final part II pass rate. So if we apply a traditional 90% part II pass rate (after the 2nd admin), you get 512-ish 4th years competing for 538 spots. That leaves room for the most recent programs to close and for students who haven't matched in the past to land a few spots. Remember that pretty much EVERY year there are "qualified" graduates who still don't get residency positions and it has nothing to do with a "shortage". It's a direct product of some iffy admissions and academic requirements at certain schools. In the spring of 2012 there were 4th year students who had entered CASPR and still not passed part I...somebody let students continue to move through school despite that fact that they were not going to be eligible for residency, and then let them "graduate" because they had met the school's requirements (Boards are a licensing requirement and have nothing to do with a school's diploma).

Every year, around this time, some terrible residency shortage rumors/posts/fear mongering is done. It generally starts from a pre-pod and then is supported by students from a few of the schools who take absolutely ZERO responsibility for their students doing poorly on boards or not getting residency programs. I remember as a pre-pod, some 3rd and 4th years ("brodiatrist", I believe, was one of them) from a certain school who were told by their Dean that the shortage was real and that everyone else had failed them. It was the APMA's fault, the NBPME's fault, the CPME's fault, the Residency Directors' faults, etc. Well guess what, there has yet to be a true "shortage" and it looks like this year may be no different (depending on the 2nd time national pass rate for part II).

Has the residency genesis been slower and to this point less successful than we all hoped? Absolutely. Are you going to get a residency if you are an average student with an average work ethic? Absolutely. So I've yet to get worked up about it, personally.

This is great! By now everyone should be able to see through the severe load of crap that is ocassionally started by some people invovled with the profession that arent satisfied, confident, and are miserable with the choices that they have made in life. In every stage you will have those, Ive seen it at the prepod level, at the student level, and im starting to see it at the student level. I will never stop you just have to get used to it and know what is what.

 

[ckjets]

Since the sky seems to be falling here on SDN, I'll post some numbers:

There were (last I heard) 538 active residency spots with 568 CASPR applicants from the class of 2013. This was prior to a final part II pass rate. So if we apply a traditional 90% part II pass rate (after the 2nd admin), you get 512-ish 4th years competing for 538 spots. That leaves room for the most recent programs to close and for students who haven't matched in the past to land a few spots. Remember that pretty much EVERY year there are "qualified" graduates who still don't get residency positions and it has nothing to do with a "shortage". It's a direct product of some iffy admissions and academic requirements at certain schools. In the spring of 2012 there were 4th year students who had entered CASPR and still not passed part I...somebody let students continue to move through school despite that fact that they were not going to be eligible for residency, and then let them "graduate" because they had met the school's requirements (Boards are a licensing requirement and have nothing to do with a school's diploma).

Every year, around this time, some terrible residency shortage rumors/posts/fear mongering is done. It generally starts from a pre-pod and then is supported by students from a few of the schools who take absolutely ZERO responsibility for their students doing poorly on boards or not getting residency programs. I remember as a pre-pod, some 3rd and 4th years ("brodiatrist", I believe, was one of them) from a certain school who were told by their Dean that the shortage was real and that everyone else had failed them. It was the APMA's fault, the NBPME's fault, the CPME's fault, the Residency Directors' faults, etc. Well guess what, there has yet to be a true "shortage" and it looks like this year may be no different (depending on the 2nd time national pass rate for part II).

Has the residency genesis been slower and to this point less successful than we all hoped? Absolutely. Are you going to get a residency if you are an average student with an average work ethic? Absolutely. So I've yet to get worked up about it, personally.

537 spots, not all are participating in match. How many participating? the people running this wont release info until after match.

 

[skierbum]

Since the sky seems to be falling here on SDN, I'll post some numbers:

There were (last I heard) 538 active residency spots with 568 CASPR applicants from the class of 2013. This was prior to a final part II pass rate. So if we apply a traditional 90% part II pass rate (after the 2nd admin), you get 512-ish 4th years competing for 538 spots. That leaves room for the most recent programs to close and for students who haven't matched in the past to land a few spots. Remember that pretty much EVERY year there are "qualified" graduates who still don't get residency positions and it has nothing to do with a "shortage". It's a direct product of some iffy admissions and academic requirements at certain schools. In the spring of 2012 there were 4th year students who had entered CASPR and still not passed part I...somebody let students continue to move through school despite that fact that they were not going to be eligible for residency, and then let them "graduate" because they had met the school's requirements (Boards are a licensing requirement and have nothing to do with a school's diploma).

Every year, around this time, some terrible residency shortage rumors/posts/fear mongering is done. It generally starts from a pre-pod and then is supported by students from a few of the schools who take absolutely ZERO responsibility for their students doing poorly on boards or not getting residency programs. I remember as a pre-pod, some 3rd and 4th years ("brodiatrist", I believe, was one of them) from a certain school who were told by their Dean that the shortage was real and that everyone else had failed them. It was the APMA's fault, the NBPME's fault, the CPME's fault, the Residency Directors' faults, etc. Well guess what, there has yet to be a true "shortage" and it looks like this year may be no different (depending on the 2nd time national pass rate for part II).

Has the residency genesis been slower and to this point less successful than we all hoped? Absolutely. Are you going to get a residency if you are an average student with an average work ethic? Absolutely. So I've yet to get worked up about it, personally.

Thanks for this The residents that I shadowed were a bit pessimistic on this.

 

[Bunionectomy]

This is from March 20 Match page:

Statistics from the 2013 Match:
•Positions available: 516
•Contending applicants: 620
•Matched applicants: 469
•Positions unfilled: 47
•Applicants unmatched: 151

So... there are about 104 qualified candidates (passed both part I and II boards exam) without residency... :-(

 

[iVTECdailyy]

Why the hell can't each school simply cut the number of admitted students by 10-15%? That would make the problem more manageable.

Here at Temple, the school would argue, "Thats $700,000 lost revenue."

 

[air bud]

Here at Temple, the school would argue, "Thats $700,000 lost revenue."

 

[dtrack22]

Here at Temple, the school would argue, "Thats $700,000 lost revenue."

This would be the argument at most schools, unfortunately. Really it's the driving force behind schools filling seats up to their cap. And it was the reason that several schools almost always admitted 10% above their cap when that leeway was given by the CPME.

 

[Robert De Niro]

This would be the argument at most schools, unfortunately. Really it's the driving force behind schools filling seats up to their cap. And it was the reason that several schools almost always admitted 10% above their cap when that leeway was given by the CPME.

Would the CPME ever revoke that extra 10%, at least until more residency spots are created?

 

[dtrack22]

They already have

 

[heybrother]

If you have a professor and a classroom you might as well fill every seat. Don't over-complicate this. Salaries, expansion, professors, connections, facilities, materials - there's always something the money could be spent on.

 

[zdlamkin8195]

I was under the impression that podiatry schools are not-for-profit?

Even if they are, nonprofits still aim to bring in as much money as possible in order to make the institution better than the rest. Non profit pretty much just means that no individuals are making money off of the profits at the end based off of how well the institution did.

 

[robopod97]

Kent State takes over 125, more than schools in much larger cities (SF, LA, Ph...). Many of the colleges take less than 55 (Midwestern, Western, DMU and SMU). Where is the fairness in an equal % decrease!

 

[Fetting]

I see your point but your numbers are wrong.

 

[zmansman17]

Why the hell can't each school simply cut the number of admitted students by 10-15%? That would make the problem more manageable.

Because why would schools sacrifice millions of dollars if they don't have to?

Schools are in it for the money (look at all of the chiropractic and law schools that have opened in the midst of the crisis in their respective fields over the past 5 years). One idea is to reduce enrollment at the biggest schools.

Or... Any school that fails to match a certain % of residents must reduce enrollment. This would create me accountability and most likely wean down those larger classes, which seem to be the biggest culprits. It also wouldn't target big schools outright, but prescribe certain conditions that would lead to reduced enrollment based on performance.

Of course that will not help the current students who have been wronged, but it may help prevent something like this from happening down the road.

 

[zmansman17]

Would the CPME ever revoke that extra 10%, at least until more residency spots are created?

But why did they even allow this in the first place. Can anyone speak to that? I mean, if they saw that a problem was coming it doesn't make sense that they would allow class sizes to be increased.

Granted, I know none of the details surrounding the 10% increase, so it may be a very simple answer.

 

[Robert De Niro]

But why did they even allow this in the first place. Can anyone speak to that? I mean, if they saw that a problem was coming it doesn't make sense that they would allow class sizes to be increased.

Granted, I know none of the details surrounding the 10% increase, so it may be a very simple answer.

They do this in med schools as well. I have a friend in who jokes that's how he got into the school he's in now. The thinking is that 10% will allow schools to maintain their enrollment numbers as students begin to dropout.

I agree with you it wasn't the best idea to allow schools to admit 10% more then what they were approved for, especially knowing the potential (now current) residency problem. In the end I believe the saying "Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile" holds water!