Possible Residency Shortage

[dental1988]

I know that this residency shortage is bad for everyone involved. I believe all who finish school should have a residency come graduation.
Some people on this forum are warning the pre-pods as well they should.
However, the warnings should go to the incoming podiatry students who are in questionable academic standing in undergrad (sub 3.0 gpa, sub 20 mcat). Most likely they will struggle in podiatry school.
The students above the average requirements for admission, and perform up to their abilities in podiatry school will have no problem obtaining a residency. Even with a shortage, a high percentage will still receive a residency.

Am I correct in these assumptions?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Feli]

I think you have a good understanding. Right now, a residency shortage is a possibility - a good one based on the numbers - but still just talk at this point. Programs open/close/move and add/reduce spots constantly.

If there is a shortage of entry level spots, you basically have 3 options: work hard and make sure you get a spot, complain about it, or quit pod school (or don't enter in the case of a pre-pod).

If you want to play the blame game (as many seem to), it's not as clear-cut as it might seem...

Some people will say residency directors should add spots, but I think they have no obligation whatsoever to do that. I'd bet that many of them were sick of getting lower quality residents in the past few years when the grad:residency ratio was heavily in favor of the students and many good programs were under-applied to. The residency faculty are already doing their due dilligence by having a program IMO; maintaining a program is a ton of paperwork and a big time commitment. Not many directors will increase spots and water down their applicant demand and surgical numbers per resident unless they have good reason.

APMA seems to take most of the blame since they run CPME which regulates and accredits the schools, but I think they should certainly allow a high quality new program like AZ or Western to open. However, the caps at other schools which aren't performing well on boards and residency placements could be reduced to compensate. As much as people complain, at least APMA reps are asking residencies to expand and helping to support and speed along potential new programs.

I think most of the blame falls on the schools that are not selective with their admissions and attempt to fill their large enrollment cap every year regardless of student quality. Some of the programs are setting up the lower quality students that they allow to matriculate/graduate for failure since those students just won't be able to compete with schools that are integrated, smaller, and therefore more selective.

...I think you can do well at any pod program if you apply yourself. If there is a residency shortage, the key will be giving yourself a lot of options. Most people who scramble either had very low grades or limited themself by going for too few programs and/or programs that they were underqualified for relative to most other applicants. If you stay fairly realistic with programs based on your paper app, that is the first step... but maybe even more critical is just visiting a lot of programs and working hard at every hospital you visit (be on time/early, read ahead, show interest, get along with residents, etc). That will give you a lot of options when interviews roll around, and while you might not need all those options/backups, it certainly never hurts.

 

[G0dFather]

"clap-clap" .... I mean i just dont know wat to tell u anymore feli ... u say profound things every time ... im gonna compile ur posts in a book

 

[MaseratiGT]

I know that this residency shortage is bad for everyone involved. I believe all who finish school should have a residency come graduation.
Some people on this forum are warning the pre-pods as well they should.
However, the warnings should go to the incoming podiatry students who are in questionable academic standing in undergrad (sub 3.0 gpa, sub 20 mcat). Most likely they will struggle in podiatry school.
The students above the average requirements for admission, and perform up to their abilities in podiatry school will have no problem obtaining a residency. Even with a shortage, a high percentage will still receive a residency.

Am I correct in these assumptions?

Some people can be top 10 in their classes and have to scramble. I would assume scrambling to be the most stressful time in a student doctor's life, and very problematic. I think admission standards should be raised, but I think pre-pods put all of their eggs into the "I'm going to be top 10 and I'll land the best residency" basket too often. All I'm saying is that it's not all about your grades once you get here. There is still a component of personality factored into matching. So even with above average admission statistics, doesn't mean students will land #1 spots.

But, I agree with Feli. (BTW, congrats on graduation and matching! ) The students who will find themselves without residencies in the near future of 2010 plus will be those with poor grades and can't make up for it in clinic.

 

[dtrack22]

To Feli and MaseratiGT:

How common is it for Pod students to do a large number of clerkships at varying locations across the country? The reason I ask is that I know of a recent alumnus from my current University who matched a few weeks ago after spending almost $6,000 on some last minute visits/interviews across the country. This person forked over a lot of dough and went the extra mile to put them-self in the best possible position to match. I don't know why but i get the impression that a good number of Pod students just complete the clerkships near the school (the same ones done by everyone else) and apply to those residency programs whether qualified or not. Maybe a better question is, did you guys feel like your fellow pod students were going to the same length that many allo- students do in order to match into a program without having to scramble (in terms of visiting a large number of programs all over the country)?

 

[MaseratiGT]

To Feli and MaseratiGT:

How common is it for Pod students to do a large number of clerkships at varying locations across the country? The reason I ask is that I know of a recent alumnus from my current University who matched a few weeks ago after spending almost $6,000 on some last minute visits/interviews across the country. This person forked over a lot of dough and went the extra mile to put them-self in the best possible position to match. I don't know why but i get the impression that a good number of Pod students just complete the clerkships near the school (the same ones done by everyone else) and apply to those residency programs whether qualified or not. Maybe a better question is, did you guys feel like your fellow pod students were going to the same length that many allo- students do in order to match into a program without having to scramble (in terms of visiting a large number of programs all over the country)?

I can tell you what I know about some 4th years.

Some of the 4th years here spent a lot of money traveling, but it seemed like the majority of them were going to places where they had family. I think that's a big issue. A lot of pod students have a family, so they may be limited to where they can travel to. But like you said, some students do complete clerkships around where they already live because travel expenses can get very high.

Some programs do offer their clerks housing and that will be a major factor for me in a couple of years. Although all of the schools place residents everywhere, for me, it's just economically more sound to stay in the region or on the east coast. But you're right, you gotta do whatcha gotta do to get the residency that you think you'll match at. If that's forking over a few grand...

But I have heard that all interviews now will be centralized in Texas over the span of a week or so, to help cut cost on students.

 

[air bud]

I agree with dtrack. More insight into this issue would be great

Although I see it mostly with pre-pods talking, I am amazed at the people on here who say I grew up in philly/NYC/chicago/etc and I am going to go to school there and although I know it is oversaturated I am going to stay there. I have two brothers who are MD's. We are from Iowa. One ended up in Reno, the other in indianapolis, both with no friends/relatives. My dad grew up in NYC and his first job out of residency was a sub 100k town in Iowa. Go where the job takes you. That is the way MD residency works.

One of the reasons I chose DMU was that the basically the entire 4th year allows you to travel and do clerkships. Yes, I am almost married and I will have kids by then, but this is what my education/future may require. Family life is one reason i chose podiatry, but it is for a year, and it will require some sacrifice on my part.

I remember seeing in a article how the pod oversaturation is related to a certain radius around a school (500 miles?), and that it would make most sense to place a new pod school somewhere I the southeast (nashville i think.)

 

[cool_vkb]

But I have heard that all interviews now will be centralized in Texas over the span of a week or so, to help cut cost on students.

yep, thats confirmed . i agree it will be awesome in terms of cutting cost. iam trying to imagine how its gonna be though. you know same day all these multiple interviews under one roof. you get out of one booth and go to next. I dont know for me interviews are like 2-3 day affair starting from boarding the flight to hotel to IV day,etce tc. so the exciting factor will be absent. but its gonna save humongous amount of money in flights and hotels plus the time spent visiting all these programs for IV. So i guess over all its a good deal for students.

 

[msa786]

Some people can be top 10 in their classes and have to scramble. I would assume scrambling to be the most stressful time in a student doctor's life, and very problematic. I think admission standards should be raised, but I think pre-pods put all of their eggs into the "I'm going to be top 10 and I'll land the best residency" basket too often. All I'm saying is that it's not all about your grades once you get here. There is still a component of personality factored into matching. So even with above average admission statistics, doesn't mean students will land #1 spots.

But, I agree with Feli. (BTW, congrats on graduation and matching! ) The students who will find themselves without residencies in the near future of 2010 plus will be those with poor grades and can't make up for it in clinic.

Not fair. Pod school is not easy by any means and not having straight A's should not mean someone cannot obtain a residency somewhere.

 

[215512]

nah man its common sense if you are bottom of your class then you might not get a residency-that's it....think about it, if you are 4.0 why wouldnt you get a residency? seriously

 

[PodunkUDPM]

nah man its common sense if you are bottom of your class then you might not get a residency-that's it....think about it, if you are 4.0 why wouldnt you get a residency? seriously

It's very possible. If you are a 4.0 student and you only rank the top of the top residency programs you still might not match. Maybe each program only ranks you as their 2nd choice. Then it will be scramble time. Kind of a scary thought.

 

[air bud]

doesnt some of that then have to be on the student for not being smarter and better prepared for match?

 

[podpal]

I graduated from podiatry school several years ago, near the top of my graduating class. During my first attempt at the CASPR match I applied to 10 programs and did not match. The "scramble" left me with nothing even remotely "good". The second year I and another podiatrist who also didn't match, applied to about 44 programs each in the match. He was also a very good student, and we were both personable, consciencious, decent people. Between the 2 of us, we spent over $22,000.00 that year in the application process for absolutely NOTHING!

I went into conservative care practice and my friend eventually got into a podiatry residency. He's doing well now. It can be a very long haul and everyone in a "tight" graduating class should be prepared to do conservative care and not surgery. Personally I love the field of podiatry. I would have loved to contribute to the surgical realm of the field as I am very astute with research but it isn't meant to be.

The good news is that there are still some states available that do not require a residency and one can still go straight into practice rather than waiting for that elusive residency that may never be available.

For all of the students out there who matched a big congrat's! Make as many forward strides for our field as possible! Never take your surgical training for granted, it is a gift! Your success will help keep our field going strong for many years to come!

 

[krabmas]

high grades get you in the door for the interview but not the program. After you get in the door it is mostly personality.

Worrying about the situation will get you no where. Being prepared is key. Study hard, get good grades, and practice for interviews - especially the personal questions.

And yes - it does increase your chances if you can manage to travel the country and visit as many programs as possible. If you visit 2 programs and only interview with 2 then you can only rank 2 so you are depending on 1 out of 2 shot. Now apply that to 9 programs and you have a better chance of matching with at least one.

 

[cool_vkb]

nah man its common sense if you are bottom of your class then you might not get a residency-that's it....think about it, if you are 4.0 why wouldnt you get a residency? seriously

Well thats true and common sense. but... I think the number of students accepted should always be equal or lesser than the number of residency slots available. so in that way anyone who graduates will get a residency. high GPA, good clinical skills, grades, LORs should be valued and definetly are the most important thing. but those should be used in choosing between residencies. not between choosing "residency" or "no residency".

 

[JackedUp]

I know in the past including this past year there was a variety of different types of residencies such as the PSR 12, PPMR, POR,RPR. None of theme programs exist anymore as of right now it is about 75% PM&S 36 residencies and 25% PM&S 24 residencies with a push to make all of them 3yrs. By the time the graduating classes of 2012 and 2013 roll around they should all be PM&S 36. My question is how is a good vs. bad residency determined if they all are same, and how would you know which one you are best suited for based upon your grades, LOR's, externships etc...?

 

[PMSIII]

I know in the past including this past year there was a variety of different types of residencies such as the PSR 12, PPMR, POR,RPR. None of theme programs exist anymore as of right now it is about 75% PM&S 36 residencies and 25% PM&S 24 residencies with a push to make all of them 3yrs. By the time the graduating classes of 2012 and 2013 roll around they should all be PM&S 36. My question is how is a good vs. bad residency determined if they all are same, and how would you know which one you are best suited for based upon your grades, LOR's, externships etc...?

First of all, not all 2 year and 3 year programs are the "same". Each program has its niche. For example, some 3 year programs emphasize clinic, elective surgery, and wound care - while others emphasize trauma, and others emphasize research/academics etc. The point here is that not all 3 year programs are the same. The key is to find the one which will best prepare you to be the foot and ankle physician you want to be. For example, If you feel like you want to get the best diabetic limb salvage and wound care in your training, then definitely go for programs that focus on that stream of podiatry. This is something you need to decide for yourself as you enter your clinical years. The next step is to extern at programs that offer the kind of niche that you seek, and if externships at those places is difficult or not possible, then visiting these programs would be a good alternative.

The key in all this is to research what you want out of your training and what programs offer this training that would best fit your needs.

 

[PMSIII]

Well thats true and common sense. but... I think the number of students accepted should always be equal or lesser than the number of residency slots available. so in that way anyone who graduates will get a residency. high GPA, good clinical skills, grades, LORs should be valued and definetly are the most important thing. but those should be used in choosing between residencies. not between choosing "residency" or "no residency".

Ok, how do you account for the applicants who graduated from podiatry school years ago and simply want to go back to do a residency? The numbers equation isn't always as easy as it sounds (number of students less than or = number of spots)

 

[Feli]

...My question is how is a good vs. bad residency determined if they all are same, and how would you know which one you are best suited for based upon your grades, LOR's, externships etc...?

Well, the first part of residency selection is self selection. You should start researching programs by looking at their CasprCrip pages and asking upperclassmen/residents/SDN/etc about programs you might be interested in. You have to get a good idea of what programs you want to learn more about and do your clerkships at.

After that, applying for your clerkships is a also selection process. If you don't a clerkship that you apply for, you can always go visit the program, but if you weren't even offered one of your alternate choice months, then it's usually sign that your paper app is below most of the program's other applicants.

...The key in all this is to research what you want out of your training and what programs offer this training that would best fit your needs.

Very good advice

 

[tmoney]

I graduated from podiatry school several years ago, near the top of my graduating class. During my first attempt at the CASPR match I applied to 10 programs and did not match. The "scramble" left me with nothing even remotely "good". The second year I and another podiatrist who also didn't match, applied to about 44 programs each in the match. He was also a very good student, and we were both personable, consciencious, decent people. Between the 2 of us, we spent over $22,000.00 that year in the application process for absolutely NOTHING!

I went into conservative care practice and my friend eventually got into a podiatry residency. He's doing well now. It can be a very long haul and everyone in a "tight" graduating class should be prepared to do conservative care and not surgery. Personally I love the field of podiatry. I would have loved to contribute to the surgical realm of the field as I am very astute with research but it isn't meant to be.

The good news is that there are still some states available that do not require a residency and one can still go straight into practice rather than waiting for that elusive residency that may never be available.

For all of the students out there who matched a big congrat's! Make as many forward strides for our field as possible! Never take your surgical training for granted, it is a gift! Your success will help keep our field going strong for many years to come!

One, Mississippi. Unless you all know of other states... I'm pretty sure that Mississippi can't handle taking all those who don't match, its one of the most economically depressed areas in the country. fun to spell tho.

 

[UW66]

Hey Feli,

Acfas had the residents director from colorados program (forgot his name) visit us last week at scholls and he previewed the latest acfas video for us. Totally got to see ya say a few words

acfas workshops look like a blast, and the online podcasts look absolutely terrific. Very exciting!

 

[Feli]

One, Mississippi. Unless you all know of other states... I'm pretty sure that Mississippi can't handle taking all those who don't match, its one of the most economically depressed areas in the country. fun to spell tho.

Yep... things have changed, but even if we have a residency shortage, the situation is still much better than it was years ago.

If there is a shortage of surgical programs, what I think you might see is the return of 1yr preceptorships. That would let the bottom grads still acquire the 1yr of PG training to get licensed and do primary care podiatry, and it would let the preceptors have a bargain associate for a year. Would that be ideal? No, but better than nothing.

Not fair. Pod school is not easy by any means and not having straight A's should not mean someone cannot obtain a residency somewhere.

A few of you guys have to realize that residency training, especially good surgical training, it a privilege, not an automatic for anyone who sneaks through to graduation. Look at posts of people like PADPM or podpal who have been through the process.

To be honest, some people who graduate would be wasting their time in a 3yr surgical program because the ABPS written boards are no picnic (sub-70% pass rate, and that lowers greatly for re-takers)... and then the oral exam after that isn't any easier. Additionally, a lot of quality surgical programs would rather have no resident than a poor quality one. Bear in mind that some schools don't even have NBPME passage as a graduation requirement and will graduate students who have remediated multiple times. Deciding to train, pay, and insure a low quality resident and has its risks, and that resident's performance could be detrimental to the program's podiatric surgery department reputation within the hospital, among future residency applicants, etc. Just food for thought... there are two sides to every issue.

 

[Feli]

Hey Feli,

Acfas had the residents director from colorados program (forgot his name) visit us last week at scholls and he previewed the latest acfas video for us. Totally got to see ya say a few words

acfas workshops look like a blast, and the online podcasts look absolutely terrific. Very exciting!

Good to hear. ACFAS is an amazing organization with a lot of resources to help the profession.

Was it Dr. Hatch, who is ACFAS' past president and former director of the Greely program?

 

[PodunkUDPM]

APMA seems to take most of the blame since they run CPME which regulates and accredits the schools, but I think they should certainly allow a high quality new program like AZ or Western to open. However, the caps at other schools which aren't performing well on boards and residency placements could be reduced to compensate. As much as people complain, at least APMA reps are asking residencies to expand and helping to support and speed along potential new programs.

It's a tough situation, but there is even a thread on the optometry forum about how Western is just doing this for the money (lets not praise this school for being so great before even one class has been taught)... Here is another posters quote about Western University -

"I'm a graduate from the osteopathic medicine program, which is the oldest of the programs - ~30 years.

They opened the first vet school in a long time when I had started school, and with the graduation of their first class should be granted full accreditation.

"The plans to open schools of dentistry, optometry and podiatry are, in my opinion, irresponsible. I'm not sure there's an actual need for more of these schools, and when the vet school opened, my class frequently felt that our tuitions were being increased at crazy rates simply to pay for new infrastructure that's required with the start of a new program,

I'm sure they'll do fine in regards to accreditation and training. Probably be some kinks to work out in the first few class years."

I think it's good to get an insiders view as well. They know better than anyone what is going on at that partiucular school.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=557495

 

[UW66]

Yeah, Dr Hatch thats right. the meeting was the hour before an exam so most of us 1st years were reviewing our notes an stuff lol.

 

[tmoney]

Yep... things have changed, but even if we have a residency shortage, the situation is still much better than it was years ago.

If there is a shortage of surgical programs, what I think you might see is the return of 1yr preceptorships. That would let the bottom grads still acquire the 1yr of PG training to get licensed and do primary care podiatry, and it would let the preceptors have a bargain associate for a year. Would that be ideal? No, but better than nothing.

A few of you guys have to realize that residency training, especially good surgical training, it a privilege, not an automatic for anyone who sneaks through to graduation. Look at posts of people like PADPM or podpal who have been through the process.

To be honest, some people who graduate would be wasting their time in a 3yr surgical program because the ABPS written boards are no picnic (sub-70% pass rate, and that lowers greatly for re-takers)... and then the oral exam after that isn't any easier. Additionally, a lot of quality surgical programs would rather have no resident than a poor quality one. Bear in mind that some schools don't even have NBPME passage as a graduation requirement and will graduate students who have remediated multiple times. Deciding to train, pay, and insure a low quality resident and has its risks, and that resident's performance could be detrimental to the program's podiatric surgery department reputation within the hospital, among future residency applicants, etc. Just food for thought... there are two sides to every issue.

thanks feli, congrats and good luck btw... I've heard some pretty good things about you. keep us posted on your program too!

 

[MaseratiGT]

Not fair. Pod school is not easy by any means and not having straight A's should not mean someone cannot obtain a residency somewhere.

I 100% agree with you. But students who are not in the top of their classes can make up for it by:

Being involved. Sometimes, like someone already said, it's who knows your face.

Being the best in the clinic. Being personable, reliable, hardworking, ethical, and willing to learn goes a long way.

 

[podpal]

According to the AACPM website these states do not require a residency: CT, PA, HI, KY, OH, Louisiana, and Puerto Rico.

 

[cool_vkb]

According to the AACPM website these states do not require a residency: CT, PA, HI, KY, OH, Louisiana, and Puerto Rico.

hmm i dint knew these many states dont require residency. well if god forbid somebody doesnt matches in residency. then its something to back on. as long as they allow Pods without residnecy to perform P &A or prescribe orthotics and other high paying conservative therapies. i guess one can survive till the next year match

 

[PMSIII]

hmm i dint knew these many states dont require residency. well if god forbid somebody doesnt matches in residency. then its something to back on. as long as they allow Pods without residnecy to perform P &A or prescribe orthotics and other high paying conservative therapies. i guess one can survive till the next year match

There's no way you can practice in OH without a residency. We are required by law to have our part III taken during our first year of residency and you can't practice podiatry without your boards. Taking part III of boards prior to graduation is no longer an option for Ohio residents. I can believe that maybe these states have practictioners who are grandfathered into the profession without residency training - but I can't imagine practicing with a medical license with no formal training.

 

[cool_vkb]

There's no way you can practice in OH without a residency. We are required by law to have our part III taken during our first year of residency and you can't practice podiatry without your boards. Taking part III of boards prior to graduation is no longer an option for Ohio residents. I can believe that maybe these states have practictioners who are grandfathered into the profession without residency training - but I can't imagine practicing with a medical license with no formal training.

yeah even iam suprised by these many number of states. but he gave reference from aacpm website.

 

[MaseratiGT]

I thought there were only two states a pod could practice in without a residency. Hawai'i being one of them. The other slips my mind. However, I thought I came across the information that this elusive "other" state was going to begin mandating residencies, leaving HI as the only state left.

Post #1000. Woooo!

 

[PMSIII]

yeah even iam suprised by these many number of states. but he gave reference from aacpm website.

Yeah I don't really agree with that source to tell you the truth - I am going with what the Ohio Medical Board requires, as I am a resident in Ohio. I was under the impression that Hawaii was the only state without a residency requirement.

 

[dropfoot]

Residency is required in Pennsylvania!

www.pacode.com

I read this wrong; I can't find anything on podiatric residency requirements in the state of Pennsylvania. Can anyone help with this? It does not make sense.

 

[dtrack22]

Who needs residency when you can go to Puerto Rico and hang out with the former Miss Universe...

I'm sure if Natch wasn't already ridin' the gravy train he'd be there in a heartbeat

 

[dropfoot]

According to the AACPM website these states do not require a residency: CT, PA, HI, KY, OH, Louisiana, and Puerto Rico.

I found this very surprising but according to the AACPM website it is accurate. However, i would be willing to bet that to become board certified residency is madatory in all states; is this correct? Being from Pennsylvania, i was hoping that the standards would have progressed, so this is a bit dissapointing to me.

 

[podpal]

well if god forbid somebody doesnt matches in residency. then its something to back on. as long as they allow Pods without residnecy to perform P &A or prescribe orthotics and other high paying conservative therapies. i guess one can survive till the next year match[/quote]

But there's NO Guarantee that one will match the "next year out". This is going to be a big problem for upcoming graduates. I've been "out" and haven't matched for a decade...LOL! Some program directors are downright nasty to previous grads who don't match first year out.

Conservative care pods can do P&As, ulcer treatments (debridements, probably not surgical grafts though), wart removal, orthotics, etc. The restrictions aren't put in place by the profession, but by the Malpractice Insurance. They will tell you what is surgical/nonsurgical on your insurance plan coverage.

We need to have something in place so that ALL pods can have a required ONE YEAR of post-grad training in their area. This is what most states require. There will be a lot of grads in the next few years who do not get anything unless the profession does something so that everyone can get ONE YEAR of decent training. Those in power need to do something about this. Another problem is location, location, location. Pod grads have to relocate far away from their families for residency in tight years. This is stupid. Someone has to change this. Why does a great Pod Surgeon have to be ABPS certified to be a residency director? It makes no sense.

 

[podpal]

Board Certification does require residency. Board Certification is important to SOME insurance companies, particularly in progressive areas of the country like CA. If you want to practice in BFE (the boondocks), insurance companies don't usually give you a hard time...since there's so few pods on them to begin with. Residency is required to do surgery at most facilities and some may want to see the practitioner get board certified.

 

[dpmgrad]

I found this very surprising but according to the AACPM website it is accurate. However, i would be willing to bet that to become board certified residency is madatory in all states; is this correct? Being from Pennsylvania, i was hoping that the standards would have progressed, so this is a bit dissapointing to me.

Unfortunately, PA does not require residency training to obtain PA State Podiatry License. All of the podiatry graduates doing residency training in PA will automatically full PA State Podiatry License to start their residency training. Because of this, all incoming new Podiatric residents will need to sit for and pass the NBPME Part III in June, right after they graduate from Podiatry school.

However, even though PA does not require residency training, most the hospital bylaws will require DPMs either have residency training or be board certified / qualified in order to obtain privileges. As mentioned earlier, many insurance panels also require that you be board certified / qualified (which require residency training) to get onto the insurance panels in PA.

 

[cool_vkb]

Unfortunately, PA does not require residency training to obtain PA State Podiatry License. All of the podiatry graduates doing residency training in PA will automatically full PA State Podiatry License to start their residency training. Because of this, all incoming new Podiatric residents will need to sit for and pass the NBPME Part III in June, right after they graduate from Podiatry school.

However, even though PA does not require residency training, most the hospital bylaws will require DPMs either have residency training or be board certified / qualified in order to obtain privileges. As mentioned earlier, many insurance panels also require that you be board certified / qualified (which require residency training) to get onto the insurance panels in PA.

if i get a residency in PA. Since DPMs are licensed even bfore they start residency. then can i work in weekends or holidays during residency period for some nurisng home agency or homehealthcare podiatrists providing basic care and make some extra cash

 

[cool_vkb]

Conservative care pods can do P&As, ulcer treatments (debridements, probably not surgical grafts though), wart removal, orthotics, etc. The restrictions aren't put in place by the profession, but by the Malpractice Insurance. They will tell you what is surgical/nonsurgical on your insurance plan coverage.

So i guess if u hve a solid patient base in a good location then im sure with these procedures P & As, orthotics, debridements,etc one can make a handosme salary. i mean these are the procedures that actually bring in the money and run the practice (well atleast for majority of pods out there) . lets say you get three orthotics a day and 3 P & As everyday with other basic C &C. thats more than $1000 a day.

 

[podpal]

Yes, the key is to get onto the insurance plans and live in an area with a large enough patient base, not necessarily a large city, but more like an underserved area. It helps to know the surgical pods in the area in the event that conservative tx fails or if it is what the patient wants/needs.

 

[msa786]

Hopefully I will be amongst the graduating class of 2012 and this residency shortage frightens me because frankly to be quite honest, I am not in the top 10% of my class and the classes only seem to be getting tougher. I am trying very hard to do my best and I know straight A's is not what every residency program is looking for but grades ultimately do help you get in the door.

What tips/advice would you have for those of us graduating after 2010 when the shortage will be most evident? What can we do to put our best foot forward and stand out from the rest of the crowd when we don't have a 4.0?

 

[dpmgrad]

if i get a residency in PA. Since DPMs are licensed even bfore they start residency. then can i work in weekends or holidays during residency period for some nurisng home agency or homehealthcare podiatrists providing basic care and make some extra cash

Yes, you can technically make some extra cash on the side moonlighting during your residency since you are fully licensed in the state of PA.

However, many residency programs do not permit moonlighting. Since moonlighting in nursing homes, clinics, physician offices are not residency activities, your malpractice insurance from residency training will NOT cover you for these activities. You will need to purchase separate malpractice coverage. Depending on your billing arrangements with whomever you are working with, you may need to get on insurance panels and many of the insurance panels may not let you on without residency training.

 

[dpmgrad]

Hopefully I will be amongst the graduating class of 2012 and this residency shortage frightens me because frankly to be quite honest, I am not in the top 10% of my class and the classes only seem to be getting tougher. I am trying very hard to do my best and I know straight A's is not what every residency program is looking for but grades ultimately do help you get in the door.

What tips/advice would you have for those of us graduating after 2010 when the shortage will be most evident? What can we do to put our best foot forward and stand out from the rest of the crowd when we don't have a 4.0?

Make an effort to learn as much as you can from your basic science courses, clinical science courses, and clinical rotations. No one is going to expect you to know everything. However, if you make an effort to look it up and get back to the person who asked you that question, it really shows your enthusiasm to learn. Make an effort to improve your clinical skills. It can be as simple as practicing suturing on pig feet, practice casting for orthotics, spending free time (such as during your breaks) with practicing Podiatrists in their office or Operating Room or clinics, etc.... We have had several TUSPM students (first, second, third year) who spend time with us in my private practice during their winter or spring breaks. You should get into the habit of reading literature and textbooks to improve your knowledge and keep up to date.

If you do an externship at a program that you are interested in, you need to "kick ass" on that externship. By doing so, you would have gotten your foot in the door for that program. Of course, you would need to ace or at least do well on your interview to land yourself in that residency program. When you are on externship, you should always be prepared. If you know what cases that you will be either scrubbing or observing the next day, you should read up on them. Be nice to everyone on your externship, including the nurses and office staff (if you encounter them). Be a team player and be personable. Work hard. Some of the best externs were not necessarily from the top of their class. Some of our externs have made such a huge impact on the nursing staff, patients, office staff, etc..., they often ask us where is the student or tell us that we really should consider then as a potential candidate for the residency program.

I am sure that many of the fellow posters here can write tons more about the dos and don'ts for externships. I hope that this does shed some light on your question.

 

[Feli]

Make an effort to learn as much as you can from your basic science courses, clinical science courses, and clinical rotations. No one is going to expect you to know everything. However, if you make an effort to look it up and get back to the person who asked you that question, it really shows your enthusiasm to learn. Make an effort to improve your clinical skills. It can be as simple as practicing suturing on pig feet, practice casting for orthotics, spending free time (such as during your breaks) with practicing Podiatrists in their office or Operating Room or clinics, etc.... We have had several TUSPM students (first, second, third year) who spend time with us in my private practice during their winter or spring breaks. You should get into the habit of reading literature and textbooks to improve your knowledge and keep up to date.

If you do an externship at a program that you are interested in, you need to "kick ass" on that externship. By doing so, you would have gotten your foot in the door for that program. Of course, you would need to ace or at least do well on your interview to land yourself in that residency program. When you are on externship, you should always be prepared. If you know what cases that you will be either scrubbing or observing the next day, you should read up on them. Be nice to everyone on your externship, including the nurses and office staff (if you encounter them). Be a team player and be personable. Work hard. Some of the best externs were not necessarily from the top of their class. Some of our externs have made such a huge impact on the nursing staff, patients, office staff, etc..., they often ask us where is the student or tell us that we really should consider then as a potential candidate for the residency program.

I am sure that many of the fellow posters here can write tons more about the dos and don'ts for externships. I hope that this does shed some light on your question.

This is very good advice

Being on time, being genuinely interested, and working well with all staff are the keys on externships in my experience this past year. At Barry, we just had our "Senior Round Table" where 4th years take questions from 2nd and 3rd year students about clerkships and interview process. The points which dpmgrad made above all came up. Each pod school has its strong and weak points in terms of basic science, journal reading, or clinical experience... but you have to take initiative as a student and always do your best to be prepared. Fourth year can not only help you ensure that you get one of your top choice residencies, but it can also be a time to grow your knowledge and skill base exponentially and learn from many talented DPMs and residents all over the country. You should always try to read textbooks on the next morning's cases, and it also helps to always carry around a journal article or two in your coat pocket for any down time.

 

[podpal]

Study, hard work and personality will only get you so far. It's about WHO YOU KNOW. Show your school that you will work hard and residency is your goal and some schools will try to "help" place you somewhere. Many residency directors don't want a resident who is "smarter" than they are, so go w/the flow, and pretend they are teaching you even if you already know all about the information they are presenting. Many residency directors have amazingly huge egos, but not all are this way. Some are kind, decent, and actually nice. ANSWER ?s, DO NOT ASK ?s.

When you do externships be nice, personable, and helpful and act like you're learning something from them. Don't bombard them with ?s, respect their patients, and tell them you appreciate the opportunity you have been given to be in their office, clinic, hospital, etc.

 

[PoddyMan]

...Right now, a residency shortage is a possibility - a good one based on the numbers - but still just talk at this point. Programs open/close/move and add/reduce spots constantly.

If there is a shortage of entry level spots, you basically have 3 options: work hard and make sure you get a spot, complain about it, or quit pod school (or don't enter in the case of a pre-pod).

If you want to play the blame game (as many seem to), it's not as clear-cut as it might seem...

Some people will say residency directors should add spots, but I think they have no obligation whatsoever to do that. I'd bet that many of them were sick of getting lower quality residents in the past few years when the grad:residency ratio was heavily in favor of the students and many good programs were under-applied to. The residency faculty are already doing their due dilligence by having a program IMO; maintaining a program is a ton of paperwork and a big time commitment. Not many directors will increase spots and water down their applicant demand and surgical numbers per resident unless they have good reason.

APMA seems to take most of the blame since they run CPME which regulates and accredits the schools, but I think they should certainly allow a high quality new program like AZ or Western to open.

Western is already working with surrounding academic health care centers/hospitals to set up residency programs for when their students graduate. Maybe all the schools should consider this. Maybe APMA/CPME should redirect the blame to the schools?!

 

[dpmgrad]

Western is already working with surrounding academic health care centers/hospitals to set up residency programs for when their students graduate. Maybe all the schools should consider this. Maybe APMA/CPME should redirect the blame to the schools?!

I think that most schools already do this. By far, NYCPM is probably the most successful in doing this. NYCPM has worked with many local hospitals in creating residency positions for their students. To my knowledge, TUSPM, Scholl, Barry, OCPM, Samuel Merritt all have residency programs in hospitals where the students rotate through and those programs are usually restricted to their own students. I am not sure about AZPod and DMU.

 

[PoddyMan]

I think that most schools already do this. By far, NYCPM is probably the most successful in doing this. NYCPM has worked with many local hospitals in creating residency positions for their students. To my knowledge, TUSPM, Scholl, Barry, OCPM, Samuel Merritt all have residency programs in hospitals where the students rotate through and those programs are usually restricted to their own students. I am not sure about AZPod and DMU.

What I'm saying is, if a school adds 20 students to its cap, is it going out to create 20 additional 1st-year residency slots for when they graduate in 4 years? If a school graduates 100 students, had they set up 100 1st-year residency slots? A school may be able to rotate their 100 students thru one residency program, but that one program may only be able to accept 4 1st-year residents when that class graduates. Now that we know there will be a residency crisis, are the schools actively attempting to start up new programs? Or, are they simply relying on everyone else to do this?