Possible to be a joyous happy radiation oncologist?

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Haybrant

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I was never a very overly skeptical person. I was extroverted and personable and joyous. As time has gone on in rad onc alot of that has changed. Im pretty skeptical about everything now, obviously when it comes to medicine. I also found I dont like to get super close to patients. While I enjoy giving good news, Im never overly positive about things as I know there is a chance of failure down the road and I feel being overly optimistic ('We got it all!" Your cancer is gone!) like some surgeons is doing a big disservice to patients.

Im incredibly gratified by rad onc, what an amazing field. The level of decision making, understanding the whole picture, making significant decisions that change someone life, being a uber specialist, its beyond words. I think only those of us in it will understand it like this. But its like peeling back the truth on something when staying blissfully ignorant might be better for overall life.

How do you guys maintain a balance. Maybe this hasnt happened to the rest of you but would be interesting to hear.
 
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I was never a very overly skeptical person. I was extroverted and personable and joyous. As time has gone on in rad onc alot of that has changed. Im pretty skeptical about everything now, obviously when it comes to medicine. I also found I dont like to get super close to patients. While I enjoy giving good news, Im never overly positive about things as I know there is a chance of failure down the road and I feel being overly optimistic ('We got it all!" Your cancer is gone!) like some surgeons is doing a big disservice to patients.

Im incredibly gratified by rad onc, what an amazing field. The level of decision making, understanding the whole picture, making significant decisions that change someone life, being a uber specialist, its beyond words. I think only those of us in it will understand it like this. But its like peeling back the truth on something when staying blissfully ignorant might be better for overall life.

How do you guys maintain a balance. Maybe this hasnt happened to the rest of you but would be interesting to hear.

Hey my friend first please really think if this has to do with radiation oncology/medicine, or even your general career satisfaction, or if you might be suffering from depression or something else.

I think one big "let down" for many in competitive fields (not just medicine) is that point a few years into practice when things settle down but a lot of people get this sense of "now what?" After literally decades of fighting and preparing for the next steps (middle school to get into honors/AP classes in HS to elite college then med school then residency and landing a dream job etc) I've met more than a few who get this sense of "that's it? Now what?" This happened to me too but then I had three kids in five years (don't necessarily recommend that!).

I'm not gonna lie it's far more devastating when a young woman who was terrified of her low risk, stage I breast cancer whom I counsel and reassur comes back with mets within 6 months of post-lumpectomy RT (after you're in practice long enough anything that can happen will happen) than when a GBM patient beats the median and survives 4-5 years. In oncology the lows are always lower than the highs are high.

Sorry if I'm rambling but I don't have that much time but felt compelled to respond just so you know that most of not all of us have been there (doubted Rad Onc or medicine or just fallen into depression or despair). You need to find a balance in your life (after seeking counseling or other forms of help if your having a more general mental health slump).

One thing I can tell you that would suck the life out of me and make me leave the field without hesitation without any regrets is if I had no choice but to work in an environment where I knew my colleagues and especially referring physicians where treating patients like pieces of meat or dollar signs. I've never worked in a place where referring physicians misinform patients for financial gain but if I ever see a patient with Gleason 9 or 10 disease who was told prostatectomy was his best option without even a rad Onc referral I'm calling the urologist out (if that leads to my own practices demise then so be it). Same goes for if I ever find myself in practice where fellow radiation oncologists are clearly overtreating but feel justified in doing so because he is in a "competitive market." I'm increasingly sure this will happen sooner than later but it's a non negotiable point for me so I'm not sure I'll be around in this field longer term (hopefully I have another decade or something drastically changes soon).
 
How do you guys maintain a balance. Maybe this hasnt happened to the rest of you but would be interesting to hear.

I'm only a first year attending, but I feel like I got smacked hard with the reality stick looking for residency, looking for an attending physician position, and then starting as an academic attending physician.

Haybrant, Balance is always tough in oncology, that is just part of the game. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to work in a department store or something where your biggest problem is a customer not finding the right size.. OH NO! 🙂 I take solace in realizing that cancer is one of the toughest enemies known to man, and it is a constant fight. It is an evil which takes the lives of those we love and we have the privilege of having a tool which can destroy it and sometimes cure. Experienced oncologists are generally not overly enthusiastic for a reason, but the best oncologists I know are optimistic and positive. If you can find the energy or will to connect with your patients, even when things don't go well, some will be very appreciative, and this can mean a lot.
 
I'm sure everyone responds to the stressors of our field differently, and probably differently also based on what phase of life and career you are in as well.

For me, my profession has been such an enormous net positive. My interactions with those facing death continues to change me and shape and reshape my thinking. I live life much more deliberately.

I started out in academics out of residency and just learned after two years it wasn't for me.

I am lucky to live a vibrant life full of adventure outside of medicine. For me, a work life balance is key to happiness as an oncologist. I love my job..And part of that is because I also love not being at work and have big goal's and a full life away from the office.

I'm surprised with the crappy job market I keep hearing everyone talk about that I don't see more young radonc choose a life as a locums. There is such a dearth of quality, young locums and I think if I hated my job and didn't have a family, that's what I would do. Work when and where you want on your terms. Much less stress than running a real practice and you'd be in super high demand because most of the locum pool is, well, lacking.

Sent from my Pixel using SDN mobile
 
I think there are two main things to be differentiated here:

1. Being happy at work

2. Being happy outside of work

Certainly work-life-balance can only work optimally, if both 1 & 2 are met, however I am not a fan of people saying that you need to push for "being happy outside of work" in order to compensate for your misery at work.
If you are not happy at work, no activity outside of work will compensate enough for it. And I would be very careful to "use" family life in order to make up for misery at work. Usually this ends up in breaking up the family, since you let out all that's stressing you at work when you are at home with them.

Now, how can one be happy at work? And how can one stay happy in the face of constant death, patients failing treatment, pressing hours, budget cuts, hostile colleagues, regulations etc...

This is something that needs to be divided again into two fields. There are things you can influence and things you cannot influence.

You can walk away from certain things (means switching jobs!) if you cannot live with them. For example hostile colleagues/bosses. You can also try to steer around regulations, budget cuts, etc. by taking up work in another sector (for example switch from private practice to hospital based care).

But there are certain things you cannot walk away from and these include patients failing treatment and dying.
You can however limit this effect by "choosing" (if you can), what you want to focus on. People who focus on treating breast or prostate cancer will generally see less failing and dying patients than those dealing with brain tumors (mainly GBM) or lung cancer. If this suits you (and you don't find it boring to contour breasts every day), then do that!

What I have also figured out is that you need some kind of positive / open culture of interaction in the clinic.
One of the main reasons I would never go to private practice is that I would miss interaction with fellow physicians in the clinic as well as in the hospital. You can always ask for an opinion and learn from each other, argue about interesting cases. You miss out on all of that if you change to a private practice setting. You are basically more or less alone then.
Another good things is to get to know who you work with and this does not include only your physician colleagues. You spend more time with your coworkers than you family, thus you should get to know them well. Physicians often have a problem (especially when they are out of residency) to "look down" to "lower level" coworkers and interact with them besides strictly on a professional level. Go get a drink with a couple of technicians, physicists. Go to the movies with a bunch of people. And by all means do not restrict these activities to the formal occasions like a christmas / new year's party or the occasional "someone-has-birthday-and-brougt-a-cake-in-the-lounge-get-together".
It's also not a bad idea to take matters less serious and informal (when you are NOT with the patient) when discussing cases with colleagues. I have seen chiefs of clinics being terribly "correct" when reviewing cases and discussing them with residents, shouting and critisizing them, the moment something pops up in the discussion that may be deemed inappropriate. I don't see why we need to be totally sarcasm-free and politically-correct, when we are not talking with the patient or his relatives. We are dealing with cancer and dying people every day, we are not machines. And if we are not supposed to break down and cry, we need to express our fears and thoughts in some way with colleagues.
So when a resident comes up and says that he saw the patient with a T4N2-hypopharynx SCC 3 months after primary radiochemo in complete remission and doing fine, I may say "Great, well done! Let's wait up when his NSCLC shows up now. He is still smoking, isn't he?" That's sarcasm and some may even say it's evil, but it's the truth (at least in some cases, most patients will probably simple develop a local recurrence before a developing a second cancer). I have seen chiefs saying "How dare you talk like this about that poor patient?" and going on to lecture for hours.

There is a fine line there, between developing evil sarcasm and grasping what we do every day, why we do it, what to expect from it and talking open about it.

In all don't expect to get "scratch-free" out of this job. We are not machines and we are dealing with death every day.
You will cry because of certain patients. These are the cases, that for some reason left a mark. Maybe they were young ("too young to get cancer"), maybe the reminded you of someone you know/knew, maybe you grew fond of them over the years. Maybe you even grew fond of their relatives and not the patient. It's okay to cry. The only problem is always thinking about those few cases and fogetting about the hundreds of other cases that went well.
 
I'm surprised with the crappy job market I keep hearing everyone talk about that I don't see more young radonc choose a life as a locums. There is such a dearth of quality, young locums and I think if I hated my job and didn't have a family, that's what I would do. Work when and where you want on your terms. Much less stress than running a real practice and you'd be in super high demand because most of the locum pool is, well, lacking.

Sent from my Pixel using SDN mobile

Hard to locums when you're young with a family and kids are starting/in school.
 
I think there are two main things to be differentiated here:

1. Being happy at work

2. Being happy outside of work

Certainly work-life-balance can only work optimally, if both 1 & 2 are met, however I am not a fan of people saying that you need to push for "being happy outside of work" in order to compensate for your misery at work.
If you are not happy at work, no activity outside of work will compensate enough for it. And I would be very careful to "use" family life in order to make up for misery at work. Usually this ends up in breaking up the family, since you let out all that's stressing you at work when you are at home with them.

Now, how can one be happy at work? And how can one stay happy in the face of constant death, patients failing treatment, pressing hours, budget cuts, hostile colleagues, regulations etc...

This is something that needs to be divided again into two fields. There are things you can influence and things you cannot influence.

You can walk away from certain things (means switching jobs!) if you cannot live with them. For example hostile colleagues/bosses. You can also try to steer around regulations, budget cuts, etc. by taking up work in another sector (for example switch from private practice to hospital based care).

But there are certain things you cannot walk away from and these include patients failing treatment and dying.
You can however limit this effect by "choosing" (if you can), what you want to focus on. People who focus on treating breast or prostate cancer will generally see less failing and dying patients than those dealing with brain tumors (mainly GBM) or lung cancer. If this suits you (and you don't find it boring to contour breasts every day), then do that!

What I have also figured out is that you need some kind of positive / open culture of interaction in the clinic.
One of the main reasons I would never go to private practice is that I would miss interaction with fellow physicians in the clinic as well as in the hospital. You can always ask for an opinion and learn from each other, argue about interesting cases. You miss out on all of that if you change to a private practice setting. You are basically more or less alone then.
Another good things is to get to know who you work with and this does not include only your physician colleagues. You spend more time with your coworkers than you family, thus you should get to know them well. Physicians often have a problem (especially when they are out of residency) to "look down" to "lower level" coworkers and interact with them besides strictly on a professional level. Go get a drink with a couple of technicians, physicists. Go to the movies with a bunch of people. And by all means do not restrict these activities to the formal occasions like a christmas / new year's party or the occasional "someone-has-birthday-and-brougt-a-cake-in-the-lounge-get-together".
It's also not a bad idea to take matters less serious and informal (when you are NOT with the patient) when discussing cases with colleagues. I have seen chiefs of clinics being terribly "correct" when reviewing cases and discussing them with residents, shouting and critisizing them, the moment something pops up in the discussion that may be deemed inappropriate. I don't see why we need to be totally sarcasm-free and politically-correct, when we are not talking with the patient or his relatives. We are dealing with cancer and dying people every day, we are not machines. And if we are not supposed to break down and cry, we need to express our fears and thoughts in some way with colleagues.
So when a resident comes up and says that he saw the patient with a T4N2-hypopharynx SCC 3 months after primary radiochemo in complete remission and doing fine, I may say "Great, well done! Let's wait up when his NSCLC shows up now. He is still smoking, isn't he?" That's sarcasm and some may even say it's evil, but it's the truth (at least in some cases, most patients will probably simple develop a local recurrence before a developing a second cancer). I have seen chiefs saying "How dare you talk like this about that poor patient?" and going on to lecture for hours.

There is a fine line there, between developing evil sarcasm and grasping what we do every day, why we do it, what to expect from it and talking open about it.

In all don't expect to get "scratch-free" out of this job. We are not machines and we are dealing with death every day.
You will cry because of certain patients. These are the cases, that for some reason left a mark. Maybe they were young ("too young to get cancer"), maybe the reminded you of someone you know/knew, maybe you grew fond of them over the years. Maybe you even grew fond of their relatives and not the patient. It's okay to cry. The only problem is always thinking about those few cases and fogetting about the hundreds of other cases that went well.


Everyone's experience is different, but in our large private practice I get to interact with many physicians across many different specialties on a daily basis. It certainly helps I'm not a solo radonc and have a partner in the clinic, but some private practices do offer plenty of interaction with other MDs.
 
I'm surprised with the crappy job market I keep hearing everyone talk about that I don't see more young radonc choose a life as a locums. There is such a dearth of quality, young locums and I think if I hated my job and didn't have a family, that's what I would do. Work when and where you want on your terms. Much less stress than running a real practice and you'd be in super high demand because most of the locum pool is, well, lacking.

I'd never seriously consider this pathway at this stage in my life. That said, my thoughts are as follows.

I'd still be concerned about job stability and pay as a young rad onc. I've done some locums stuff here and there, but keeping salary and benefits as a full-time locums above full-time academics doesn't seem possible to me based on the rates I've been offered. Further, there remains a risk that with a worsening job market locums will be the first one cut or there will be a huge downward pressure on locums rates. There's such a stigma about people in locums that I'd be scared I'd never get another decent permanent position in the future. Locums is a semi-retired rad onc's game for a reason...
 
Is there any merit to the stigma? Or is it just one of those things?
I have some time before graduation, but looking forward I've considered doing locums after graduation. I would like to stay in the city I'm at or nearby for my family, but my program is in a very tight market. Judging by what people are saying on SDN and what our chiefs are experiencing on the job hunt, it really is pretty bad. Lots of opportunities for locums though. My wife makes decent money, so financially, part-time work would be okay and great in terms of family. Then when a full-time position opens up, I could apply for that.

Is the stigma/concern with locums is that you weren't good enough to find a permanent position? Or concerned that you aren't busy enough to be on top of your game?
 
Is there any merit to the stigma? Or is it just one of those things?
I have some time before graduation, but looking forward I've considered doing locums after graduation. I would like to stay in the city I'm at or nearby for my family, but my program is in a very tight market. Judging by what people are saying on SDN and what our chiefs are experiencing on the job hunt, it really is pretty bad. Lots of opportunities for locums though. My wife makes decent money, so financially, part-time work would be okay and great in terms of family. Then when a full-time position opens up, I could apply for that.

Is the stigma/concern with locums is that you weren't good enough to find a permanent position? Or concerned that you aren't busy enough to be on top of your game?
Personally, I think if you are a good radonc, doing locums opens up a lot of doors. I still have clinics beating my door down from locums back in 2012 recruiting for an opening.

Sent from my Pixel using SDN mobile
 
I agree with the laughing to keep from crying approach. If you can keep things light, fun, and upbeat in the clinic it juxtaposes well with the seriousness of the disease process. You obviously have to feel out the room first, but only a rare patient/staff member/colleague will be offended if you make them laugh, even (especially) in dire times.
 
Personally, I think if you are a good radonc, doing locums opens up a lot of doors. I still have clinics beating my door down from locums back in 2012 recruiting for an opening.

Sent from my Pixel using SDN mobile
Yes that's one way to get your foot in the door of a practice that might be looking for someone but not really advertising, good way to assess fit on both ends
 
I listen to the "Happy Happy Joy Joy" song on repeat when I'm getting ready in the morning and on my drive to work. It keeps me feeling positive.




Also, rad onc rules.

Could you honestly imagine having happy happy joy joy in your life if you were in IM or FP?
 
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