Post bac alternatives?

[jstudent24]

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Hi,

I just graduated with a degree of business and I need to take some extra classes to fulfill the prereq requirements. I was wondering what's the best way to take the needed classes if I don't want to enroll in a postbac. I don't think it's possible to just take classes at a 4 year university is it? I live in the bay area and the Cal State Universities have an Open University program. Would that be appropriate?

Do most people just sign up for a second bachelor's degree, take the classes they need and not complete it?

Thanks.

 

[gotmeds?]

Hi,

I just graduated with a degree of business and I need to take some extra classes to fulfill the prereq requirements. I was wondering what's the best way to take the needed classes if I don't want to enroll in a postbac. I don't think it's possible to just take classes at a 4 year university is it? I live in the bay area and the Cal State Universities have an Open University program. Would that be appropriate?

Do most people just sign up for a second bachelor's degree, take the classes they need and not complete it?

Thanks.

UC Berkeley Extension and Cal State are both good options. There's no need to sign up for a second bachelor's or a formal post-bacc if you only need a few classes. If you're missing most of pre-reqs, you could also look into the Mills College Post-Bacc Program.

 

[njbmd]

Hi,

I just graduated with a degree of business and I need to take some extra classes to fulfill the prereq requirements. I was wondering what's the best way to take the needed classes if I don't want to enroll in a postbac. I don't think it's possible to just take classes at a 4 year university is it? I live in the bay area and the Cal State Universities have an Open University program. Would that be appropriate?

Do most people just sign up for a second bachelor's degree, take the classes they need and not complete it?

Thanks.

Take the courses as a non-degree student at any 4-year college or university that allows non-degree students. If you already have a bachelor's degree, anything that you take outside of a formal graduate program is post-bacc anyway.

If you cannot find a 4-year college, take them at a community college but be sure that they are one-year courses that will tranfer to a university (not pre-health courses). Most community colleges offer General Biology, General Chemistry, Organic Chemistry and General Physics in their Librals Arts division for students who are planning to transfer to university but want to start out at community college.

 

[Nasrudin]

Take the courses as a non-degree student at any 4-year college or university that allows non-degree students. If you already have a bachelor's degree, anything that you take outside of a formal graduate program is post-bacc anyway.

If you cannot find a 4-year college, take them at a community college but be sure that they are one-year courses that will tranfer to a university (not pre-health courses). Most community colleges offer General Biology, General Chemistry, Organic Chemistry and General Physics in their Librals Arts division for students who are planning to transfer to university but want to start out at community college.

What she said.

And then with regards to the Bay Area: (As Gotmeds indicated...)
You have good options: Cal State East Bay--if that's what they're calling it...anyway the one in Hayward. SFSU definitely can take the train from where ever. Mills for the "money-is-no-issue-folks"--high quality though. Berkeley Extension would be a great option.

For me as the best quality/cost options would be SFSU or Berkeley Extension. Be careful with this though because as with all the lower cost public school options comes the hassles of crowds and getting the classes you need. So "open university" at SFSU means you get the bones left on the carcass after all the other kids register. Anyway there's a lot "hyphe" folks on this board who could offer specifics about the bay area....ask away...

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Take the courses as a non-degree student at any 4-year college or university that allows non-degree students. If you already have a bachelor's degree, anything that you take outside of a formal graduate program is post-bacc anyway.

Don't do this! If you are a non-degree-seeking student, you will be ineligible for federal student loans! (unless you are independently wealthy, in which case it doesn't matter and you need to send me a scholarship right away! 😆) Register as a second-degree seeking student in a different major. You don't have to finish the second degree, just work towards it while you take your various upper-level science electives to boost your GPA.

If you cannot find a 4-year college, take them at a community college but be sure that they are one-year courses that will tranfer to a university (not pre-health courses). Most community colleges offer General Biology, General Chemistry, Organic Chemistry and General Physics in their Librals Arts division for students who are planning to transfer to university but want to start out at community college.

I don't agree. Medical schools do not look favorably upon community college credits if you could also take them at a 4-year university (unless you are taking them your first two years after high school and then you transfer to a 4-year college). I'm sure they could make exceptions due to finances or extenuating circumstances, but several adcoms on SDN have said that CC classes are looked as lesser than 4-year classes.

 

[jstudent24]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Maybe I'm missing something but the extension programs don't seem to have regular classes? For example if I go to the UC Berkeley Extension program website http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/

I click on course catalog and they don't have "Chemistry" or "Biology" in the drop down menu. It's the same thing for CSU Hayward's continuing education program.

 

[zed350]

Any Post-bacc program you will find is basically to extort as much money as they can. If your pior academic record is good and you can do well on your Mcat's , i would say go for a CC . Cheaper and better quality of education unlike other public/private schools which feel like going to a state fair with freakin 100-200 people shoved in one class.

Best of Luck !!

 

[Nasrudin]

Thanks for the advice guys.

Maybe I'm missing something but the extension programs don't seem to have regular classes? For example if I go to the UC Berkeley Extension program website http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/

I click on course catalog and they don't have "Chemistry" or "Biology" in the drop down menu. It's the same thing for CSU Hayward's continuing education program.

Yep. And my friend who was thinking about going there was talking to a really helpful pre-med advisor who he said he talked to for an hour or more. So I think they even have a somewhat formalized pre-med thingy happening.

 

[stbxTechie]

Don't do this! If you are a non-degree-seeking student, you will be ineligible for federal student loans! (unless you are independently wealthy, in which case it doesn't matter and you need to send me a scholarship right away! 😆) Register as a second-degree seeking student in a different major. You don't have to finish the second degree, just work towards it while you take your various upper-level science electives to boost your GPA.

It's important to note that IF you need/want the loans... but whether the tradeoff between going full time to take the loans or paying in other ways depend a lot on the program and your work/savings status; a lot of state schools are not that expensive, especially for a course or two at a time rather than a full load.

On the other hand, some schools are a good bit more expensive when enrolling through non-traditional channels: the Berkeley Extension, for example, is something like twice as expensive as regular enrollment, and the difference between SFSU regular tuition and their postbac are even larger.

I don't agree. Medical schools do not look favorably upon community college credits if you could also take them at a 4-year university (unless you are taking them your first two years after high school and then you transfer to a 4-year college). I'm sure they could make exceptions due to finances or extenuating circumstances, but several adcoms on SDN have said that CC classes are looked as lesser than 4-year classes.

At least in the California system, community colleges don't tend to offer upper-division classes, so you're limited to lower division prereqs regardless. They do have the advantage of being wonderfully cheap ($20 per unit around here, and I think statewide.)

 

[Nasrudin]

It's important to note that IF you need/want the loans... but whether the tradeoff between going full time to take the loans or paying in other ways depend a lot on the program and your work/savings status; a lot of state schools are not that expensive, especially for a course or two at a time rather than a full load.

On the other hand, some schools are a good bit more expensive when enrolling through non-traditional channels: the Berkeley Extension, for example, is something like twice as expensive as regular enrollment, and the difference between SFSU regular tuition and their postbac are even larger.



At least in the California system, community colleges don't tend to offer upper-division classes, so you're limited to lower division prereqs regardless. They do have the advantage of being wonderfully cheap ($20 per unit around here, and I think statewide.)

Oh snap. I didn't know it was that expensive. My bad. I'm going to finish up at Harvard Extension and the classes are only like 700-900 for 4 credits...not bad. I assumed it would be similar. I'm a regular degree student from SFSU so yeah...I advocate for those means.

Here's one for the lucky few who might need it but not know it. My gift to you......the chemistry department at CCSF is full of chem Nazi's who are very angry at being on the chem weenie 3rd string squad instead of being at Berkeley....as a result the some of the science classes there were easily 5-10 times harder than the ones I took at state. There you go. Worth its weight in gold for the poor schmuck like me who thought he'd warm up whith some classes at a JC....hahahA!

 

[Adradr]

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[Nasrudin]

Here's a run-down on my Bay Area post bac experience - I hope it's somewhat helpful. I know this was a pretty nerve-wracking decision process for me, so good luck!

There are two ways to do a UC/CSU post-bac: as a regular "second bachelor's" student, and as an Open University student. Open U students pay more per unit and register after classes start, which makes finances and scheduling both nightmares. Second bachelor's students usually don't complete their degrees, but get to take full advantage of the advising, financial aid, etc. available to everyone else 🙂.

If you're curious about specifics, I applied as a second-bac student to SFSU, SJSU, CSUEB, and UCB and UCSC, and I was roundly rejected by both UCs - probably because their literature specifically says that the most successful transfer applicants have completed their lower-division coursework elsewhere and need upper division classes to finish their degree. I don't think that my desire to take general physics and general and organic chem so that I could promptly drop out, take the MCAT, and apply to medical school quite fit the bill. (For what it's worth, I do think my application was strong otherwise.) I just don't think the UCs are particularly interested in post-bac students, although I would love to hear if anyone has any experience to the contrary.

The great thing about the CSU schools in the Bay Area is that there's no question as to whether or not you'll get in, provided your high school GPA was above a 2.5. Whee! (Note: SFSU supposedly now has a formal post-bac program. Not sure how this works.)

I chose SJSU over SFSU and CSUEB so that I could live with my parents and save on rent, and started last Fall. I have been SO IMPRESSED with the quality of the instruction. It's VASTLY superior (cannot overemphasize this point!) to the local Ivy-level research institution where I did my undergrad. The classes are small (40 people in my Organic lecture this past year), the teachers are generally really, really good - and generally really, really like teaching - and there are a lot of post-bacs who are going through the same things you are and can commiserate!

The only class that is ever difficult for post-bacs to get into is Organic Chemistry lab - all other pre-med classes always have plenty of space provided that you register promptly. (Organic lecture is NEVER full.) Also, (from anecdotal evidence) students who do well in SJSU classes can get into amazing schools. Off the top of my head, two people who are going to UCSF Med next year and another is going to Northwestern - and there aren't THAT many post-bacs to begin with!

Best of luck to you...

We could now publish this thread as a review of the entire area's programs. I forgot about SJSU, I've heard people say the same things you did, that its a good school for this type of work. Which confirms what njbmd said that you should just take the classes where its convenient, affordable, and accessible.

We're just lucky to have this many options in this area I guess. It's left over from the baby-boomer's educational days. They all went to school for free when this state believed its duty was too provide a college education to anybody who wanted it for free. Not exactly the type of mission laid forth by Leland Stanford, 😉 but you know I've seen a lot of former ivy leagers in our midst so I guess cheap public education is still doing its job well enough.

 

[stbxTechie]

Oh snap. I didn't know it was that expensive. My bad. I'm going to finish up at Harvard Extension and the classes are only like 700-900 for 4 credits...not bad. I assumed it would be similar. I'm a regular degree student from SFSU so yeah...I advocate for those means.

I seem to have been incorrect about the Berkeley extension - it looks like they priced by course rather than a set per-unit rate, so I'm not sure where I got the general tuition rate last time I looked. From checking a few representative courses, they're about $250 per lecture unit, and the $500/unit rate was only for labs. (to save other folks Googling, here's the link: http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/profseq/premed.html )

That's much closer to regular full-time tuition at Berkeley than I thought ( http://registrar.berkeley.edu/Registration/feesched.html ).

The SF State program I was remembering correctly: per http://online.sfsu.edu/~brothman/PHPCP.htm it's $526/unit, vs. $215-260/unit for Open University ( http://www.cel.sfsu.edu/openuniversity/register.cfm#fees ) or a chunk less than that full-time enrolled (http://www.sfsu.edu/prospect/fees.htm)... but that's still a lot cheaper than Mills (or USF at a whopping $1100/unit!)

Here's one for the lucky few who might need it but not know it. My gift to you......the chemistry department at CCSF is full of chem Nazi's who are very angry at being on the chem weenie 3rd string squad instead of being at Berkeley....as a result the some of the science classes there were easily 5-10 times harder than the ones I took at state. There you go. Worth its weight in gold for the poor schmuck like me who thought he'd warm up whith some classes at a JC....hahahA!

Heh... good to know. I'm going to be taking an intro chem course this fall at one of the San Mateo CCs (probably CSM) and hope that won't be the case there as well.

I applied as a second-bac student to SFSU, SJSU, CSUEB, and UCB and UCSC, and I was roundly rejected by both UCs - probably because their literature specifically says that the most successful transfer applicants have completed their lower-division coursework elsewhere and need upper division classes to finish their degree.

I'm considering UCSC, as I'm currently still on the books as a Master's student on leave of absence at the school of engineering there. The tuition is a bit higher as a grad student, but I've wondered if I could just stay on the books with the grad division for a year to take OChem and whatever else I could schedule around it.

The great thing about the CSU schools in the Bay Area is that there's no question as to whether or not you'll get in, provided your high school GPA was above a 2.5. Whee!

Nice. Do high schools keep transcripts indefinitely? I guess 13 years out isn't all that long, but I have no idea how I'd get one at this point.

Similarly annoyingly, should anywhere I look at want GRE scores, mine are expired (from 2001) and I relatively rocked them at the time (especially the now gone analytic.)

(Note: SFSU supposedly now has a formal post-bac program. Not sure how this works.)

Given how new it is, they may not know entirely themselves. It looks damn expensive, though - although the small cohort-based classes could be a big plus - something similar definitely was for my wife in nursing school (she's a brand-new RN, and just finishing up the MSN part of the direct-entry MSN program at USF.)

 

[jstudent24]

Thanks for all the responses guys. From what everyone has said so far I think the best bet might be to just sign up for a second bachelor's at SJSU and take the required classes. I can just leave the degree uncompleted and apply to med school after I have the classes I need.

 

[yomc25]

Hey all,

I am a new member, been lurking for a while, and I finally decided to join up. Just thought I would say, this is great forum, with tons of info.

Anyways, I just enrolled in the UCB Extension pre-med program and thought I would share a little about how I choose this program.

First off, I work full time (mech engineer) and definitely needed to find night classes. I also attend SJSU for a masters program for my field, so I thought SJSU would be perfect since I was already enrolled. Unfortunately, the lower div science classes are offered at random times during the day, too difficult to manage a job and go to class in the middle of the day(plus classes were either 2x or 3x a week, obviously geared for the full time student). SJSU does not have a formalized post-bacc program, but they do address this on there website;

http://www.biology.sjsu.edu/programs/postmed.aspx

My next bet was CC's, which is what I was really hoping for because there a plenty in the south bay (that is where I am), but after much thinking, I decided it was in my best interest to go for the formal UCB extension pre-med program. (I did look at SFSU, Mills, UCSF, etc., but those were full time programs).

The advantage is that classes are small, the program itself is new and small, the advisor is super nice and super wiling to talk with you, you get a composite letter of req (maintain a 3.3 at min), the program is for working people(i.e. night classes only), classes are only once a week, labs are sometimes on weekends, price is not too bad, and you get to meet people in the same boat as you.

The downside is that I have to go to SF, Berkeley, or Mills (for lab) from the south bay.

Anyways, that's my quick and dirty story. FYI, I just started taking classes, so far I like it. Going to SF is not too bad either, I just BART it. Personally, I enjoy taking public transit, so the whole trip to SF is enjoyable for me.

 

[boodthedog]

Unless I missed it in an earlier post, another downside to attending a university as a non-degree seeking student is you usually are not allowed to preregister for classes, which is a real pain because the prereqs often fill up. I don't know how the schools near you work, but I applied as a transfer student to a satellite Penn State Campus with a ba from another school, something I didn't realize I could do. I never finished the associates degree I signed up for at Penn State, but with the transfer credits was one of the first to have access to preregistration. I probably wouldn't have been able to get into all the classes otherwise.

 

[jza70]

When you attend for a 2nd bac degree do the grades you get add to your old GPA when you apply to schools or will it fall in the post grad GPA?

 

[gotmeds?]

When you attend for a 2nd bac degree do the grades you get add to your old GPA when you apply to schools or will it fall in the post grad GPA?

Yes...to both. It's added to your cummulative UGGPA but is also listed separately (just like freshman, sophomore, junior and senior GPAs are listed separately).

 

[dancingdoctor]

quick question: does taking classes as a continuing education student count towards the undergrad or grad GPA? thanks in advance!

 

[Meatwad]

quick question: does taking classes as a continuing education student count towards the undergrad or grad GPA? thanks in advance!

All undergraduate courses count towards the undergraduate cumulative GPA, regardless of how many years apart they were taken.

 

[dancingdoctor]

thank you. I was wondering this because I was initially planning to do a formal 2 year post-bacc route after graduation next May but I would only obtain 32 credits from this program (the program is part-time).

However, I believe I might need more credits to make a more significant impact on my Undergrad GPAs. (2.66 and 2.14)

So now Im also considering just graduating after my 5th year undergrad (in May) and do 1 additional year of continuing education courses, or staying in undergrad for a 6th year (ah!). Either way, I could take ~ 32 credits in one year span (as opposed to the part-time 2 year post-bacc)


What about *full-time formal or non-formal post-bacc programs (taking undergrad and perhaps some upper level coursework)

What about certification programs?😕

I believe Im more apathetic about this than I think

 

[Meatwad]

thank you. I was wondering this because I was initially planning to do a formal 2 year post-bacc route after graduation next May but I would only obtain 32 credits from this program (the program is part-time).

However, I believe I might need more credits to make a more significant impact on my Undergrad GPAs. (2.66 and 2.14)

So now Im also considering just graduating after my 5th year undergrad (in May) and do 1 additional year of continuing education courses, or staying in undergrad for a 6th year (ah!). Either way, I could take ~ 32 credits in one year span (as opposed to the part-time 2 year post-bacc)


What about *full-time formal or non-formal post-bacc programs (taking undergrad and perhaps some upper level coursework)

What about certification programs?😕

I believe Im more apathetic about this than I think

Well, as you said, you need more than just 32 credits to get that GPA up. It's really a personal preference about where you do it, in my opinion. Do you want to be at your current school for 6 years, or be done soon and go somewhere else. Change of scenery could be good.

As for the formal vs informal thing, well, there are two conflicting forces working here.

1) You could do a formal post-bacc somewhere that would take a person with a really low GPA combo like you. I believe Harvard Extension is open enrollment, so you wouldn't have a problem getting in. The only thing is, it's VERY competitive because everyone is a Type A pre-med that wants to get 4.0's from Harvard.

2) Go to a local 4-year school that maybe you feel has an "easier," science department than Harvard. At this point, I think grades will be far more important to you than presitge. If you get 4 more semesters of a 4.0 at Podunk College, you're better off than 3.5's at Harvard. Yours is now a numbers game, not really a name game.

So if I were in your shoes, I would go to a school with no formal post-bacc. One that I know I can kick @ss at. Go for probably at least 2 more years (calculate your GPA after 2 years of like a 3.8-4.0 average), maybe pick up a second bachelor's there. This will show dedication that you didn't have in your original undergraduate school. Then, your GPA should hopefully be a little over 3.0. I'd apply to a few schools that usually have lower stats, and to an SMP simultaneously.

 

[cadingcading]

For those of you looking for Post-Bacc programs in the Bay Area, CA, check out SFSU. It has a great post-bacc program and I'm sure, a fairly large post-bacc population (when I was there 4 years ago). I knew of several individuals who got into great med school/grad school programs - UCSF being one.