Post bac research programs

[deleted647690]

Does anyone know of any programs similar to the NIH IRTA? Preferably in the same area as the NIH?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Lucca]

https://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/PREP/Pages/PartInstPREP.aspx

A list of Post Bac Research programs. Funded by the NIH but extramurally. Some are near DC.

 

[deleted647690]

https://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/PREP/Pages/PartInstPREP.aspx

A list of Post Bac Research programs. Funded by the NIH but extramurally. Some are near DC.

I did look into PREP, but isn't that aimed more at PhD and MD/PhD applicants?

 

[aldol16]

I did look into PREP, but isn't that aimed more at PhD and MD/PhD applicants?

You're a potential MD/PhD applicant until you're not.

 

[deleted647690]

You're a potential MD/PhD applicant until you're not.

lol, what if the program pages specifically says, "not for MD applicants"

 

[Go4Doc]

NIH IRTA is a cool program that I almost went with. Unfortunately the stipend isn't spectacular especially for being in an area with such a high cost of living (assuming your lab is on the Bethesda campus.) While there is certainly something to say about the name-recognition of the NIH, I've actually heard of people going into debt to work there so the cost-benefit analysis is up to you.

Furthermore, it's obviously pretty competitive so there's no guarantee you'll get an offer. To spread the risk, I applied to job postings for research assistants at universities around the country and despite invitations from several labs at the NIH, ultimately went with my current job at Stanford. It's not a formal program but it's exactly what I was looking for in a job and provides a more liveable wage.

Also, while I'd say IRTA is full of pre-PhD or pre-MD/PhD, I'm actually the only pre-MD/PhD in my lab. Everyone else is either pre-Med, pre-PhD, or pre-Industry.

 

[Lucca]

You're a potential MD/PhD applicant until you're not.

XD

lol, what if the program pages specifically says, "not for MD applicants"

Well, you have two routes then: Don't apply to those or lie and say you are going for the research career. Is there something other than research you want to do? You could look for opportunities working in clinical research; I believe @efle and @Affiche did something similar during their gap years, perhaps they could help you out there.

 

[deleted647690]

NIH IRTA is a cool program that I almost went with. Unfortunately the stipend isn't spectacular especially for being in an area with such a high cost of living (assuming your lab is on the Bethesda campus.) While there is certainly something to say about the name-recognition of the NIH, I've actually heard of people going into debt to work there so the cost-benefit analysis is up to you.

Furthermore, it's obviously pretty competitive so there's no guarantee you'll get an offer. To spread the risk, I applied to job postings for research assistants at universities around the country and despite invitations from several labs at the NIH, ultimately went with my current job at Stanford. It's not a formal program but it's exactly what I was looking for in a job and provides a more liveable wage.

Also, while I'd say IRTA is full of pre-PhD or pre-MD/PhD, I'm actually the only pre-MD/PhD in my lab. Everyone else is either pre-Med, pre-PhD, or pre-Industry.

My primary goal is to do the IRTA program. I've been contacting other PIs at the same institute, just in case. So far, they've been saying no.

The institute I was at was actually not on the main NIH campus.

XD


Well, you have two routes then: Don't apply to those or lie and say you are going for the research career. Is there something other than research you want to do? You could look for opportunities working in clinical research; I believe @efle and @Affiche did something similar during their gap years, perhaps they could help you out there.

I would like to do research, because I enjoyed my time at the NIH before. Also, I'm taking two gap years, so the two year length of the IRTA program works out well. I'd rather not scribe for 2 years.

 

[deleted647690]

NIH IRTA is a cool program that I almost went with. Unfortunately the stipend isn't spectacular especially for being in an area with such a high cost of living (assuming your lab is on the Bethesda campus.) While there is certainly something to say about the name-recognition of the NIH, I've actually heard of people going into debt to work there so the cost-benefit analysis is up to you.

Furthermore, it's obviously pretty competitive so there's no guarantee you'll get an offer. To spread the risk, I applied to job postings for research assistants at universities around the country and despite invitations from several labs at the NIH, ultimately went with my current job at Stanford. It's not a formal program but it's exactly what I was looking for in a job and provides a more liveable wage.

Also, while I'd say IRTA is full of pre-PhD or pre-MD/PhD, I'm actually the only pre-MD/PhD in my lab. Everyone else is either pre-Med, pre-PhD, or pre-Industry.

So where do you find these university job postings? Did you just go on university department websites and find professors and email them?

 

[aldol16]

lol, what if the program pages specifically says, "not for MD applicants"

You're not really an applicant yet so how could they know whether you're MD or MD/PhD before you? In either case, is MD/PhD even a distinct possibility for you? If it is, then it's okay to make clear that you are considering it. If it's not, then perhaps research isn't the best way to spend your gap year?

 

[aldol16]

So where do you find these university job postings? Did you just go on university department websites and find professors and email them?

Beware of these lone listings because they're usually lower-yielding than actual formal programs or formalized positions that have been around. This is because most universities' HR departments require full-time positions to be advertised and for PIs to interview multiple applicants for the position even if the PI already has someone in mind who is the best qualified for the job. So you might just be wasting your time for some of these positions. That's not to say don't try, but just be aware of this.

 

[Sheiko]

I've actually heard of people going into debt to work there so the cost-benefit analysis is up to you.

As a current IRTA, it's not that bad. If you're not living in Dupont or anywhere like that it's really not that hard to live on.

Plus all those government holidays

 

[deleted647690]

You're not really an applicant yet so how could they know whether you're MD or MD/PhD before you? In either case, is MD/PhD even a distinct possibility for you? If it is, then it's okay to make clear that you are considering it. If it's not, then perhaps research isn't the best way to spend your gap year?

I do enjoy research, just not enough to make a lifelong career out of it. I'd rather be doing research than scribing.

 

[Go4Doc]

So where do you find these university job postings? Did you just go on university department websites and find professors and email them?

Literally google "[school name]+career opportunities". Most have job sites with online applications. You can often times sort by School, department, and field. For example, I found my job at stanford by searching for "research" jobs in the school of medicine. I also got job offers at UCSF, MIT, and WashU this way. Unfortunately there was also lots of silence. UWash, Johns Hopkins, and UCDavis never got back to me at all and MiT only got back to me 3 months after I had accepted my job at a stanford.

 

[deleted647690]

Literally google "[school name]+career opportunities". Most have job sites with online applications. You can often times sort by School, department, and field. For example, I found my job at stanford by searching for "research" jobs in the school of medicine. I also got job offers at UCSF, MIT, and WashU this way. Unfortunately there was also lots of silence. UWash, Johns Hopkins, and UCDavis never got back to me at all and MiT only got back to me 3 months after I had accepted my job at a stanford.

So are most of these considered research technician positions? Does that mean I won't be involved in creating a research project/treated as a student (I guess that's the way you'd phrase it, if you understand what I'm saying).

 

[Go4Doc]

So are most of these considered research technician positions? Does that mean I won't be involved in creating a research project/treated as a student (I guess that's the way you'd phrase it, if you understand what I'm saying).

It depends on the job so I'd hate to make a sweeping assumption. That being said, these posting often times break your expected duties into percentages of time (e.g., 40% data collection, 30% analysis, 10% study design/ grant writing, etc...). Ive been fortunate enough to land in a lab that is almost composed entirely of post-baccs save for two engineers and a PhD student. We all contribute to the research equally. We discuss new protocols in lab meeting, Ive been tasked with Grant writing, and I get to interface with Medtronic for various issues. I even get to post the new job openings and am in charge of preliminary screening of applicants. I'm sure the degree of autonomy varies by PI but my experience thus far has been incredible.

 

[deleted647690]

It depends on the job so I'd hate to make a sweeping assumption. That being said, these posting often times break your expected duties into percentages of time (e.g., 40% data collection, 30% analysis, 10% study design/ grant writing, etc...). Ive been fortunate enough to land in a lab that is almost composed entirely of post-baccs save for two engineers and a PhD student. We all contribute to the research equally. We discuss new protocols in lab meeting, Ive been tasked with Grant writing, and I get to interface with Medtronic for various issues. I even get to post the new job openings and am in charge of preliminary screening of applicants. I'm sure the degree of autonomy varies by PI but my experience thus far has been incredible.

Do you think I'd have any luck just going onto my local school of medicine's faculty website and cold emailing professors whose research interests me?

 

[Sheiko]

Do you think I'd have any luck just going onto my local school of medicine's faculty website and cold emailing professors whose research interests me?

You have nothing to lose by trying, and everything to gain

 

[Go4Doc]

You have nothing to lose by trying, and everything to gain

I completely agree. It can't hurt but definitely has the potential to help. I wouldn't expect a paid position through that avenue, at least not immediately. If a lab is looking to hire a research assistant, odds are they'll be advertising on the university's job page.

 

[deleted647690]

I completely agree. It can't hurt but definitely has the potential to help. I wouldn't expect a paid position through that avenue, at least not immediately. If a lab is looking to hire a research assistant, odds are they'll be advertising on the university's job page.

Hm, so if I joined a lab as a volunteer through this route, when should I expect to be offered a paid position (if at all). I'd prefer getting paid since I would be commuting and hopefully making this into a gap year position. Should I just express this desire to the PI?

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

My primary goal is to do the IRTA program because I did the SIP one summer, and I really enjoyed the work my lab was doing. It's just that my PI will not know until the end of February if there will be an opening for me, so I've been contacting other PIs at the same institute, just in case. So far, they've been saying no.

The institute I was at was actually not on the main NIH campus, and I'd prefer to work there because it would mean I could save on rent and commute from home.



I would like to do research, because I enjoyed my time at the NIH before. Also, I'm taking two gap years, so the two year length of the IRTA program works out well. I'd rather not scribe for 2 years.

How close were you with people in the OITE office? I've been told directly that they can match previous summer students with IRTA labs if their old PI can't take them.

 

[deleted647690]

How close were you with people in the OITE office? I've been told directly that they can match previous summer students with IRTA labs if their old PI can't take them.

I was not really close with them. I actually didn't work on the main Bethesda campus. I emailed the director of education at my campus, and he just said that it was good for me to be applying now. I did email Dr. Sharon Milgram from the main campus about reading over my cover letter, and she said she could, but then she didn't respond.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

I was not really close with them. I actually didn't work on the main Bethesda campus. I emailed the director of education at my campus, and he just said that it was good for me to be applying now. I did email Dr. Sharon Milgram from the main campus about reading over my cover letter, and she said she could, but then she didn't respond.

Yeah, Sharon would be the go-to person for that. She can be really busy, so if she hasn't responded, then I would send her another email. She is super helpful.

 

[benjamin94559]

Do you think I'd have any luck just going onto my local school of medicine's faculty website and cold emailing professors whose research interests me?

I was going to suggest you could cobble together a DIY research post bac at your local medical school by applying for a research assistant job. The pay will come out to be pretty similar and you'd probably get a tuition benefit to take classes if you want.

 

[deleted647690]

So I emailed a bunch of PIs at NIH around Christmas, and I figured if they didn't respond, they were probably off work. Now that the holidays are over, would it be appropriate to email back PIs who didn't respond and just saying something like, "I wanted to follow up with you about my inquiry into a post bac position in your lab for next summer/fall?" I think it would be best not to sound pushy

 

[Sheiko]

So I emailed a bunch of PIs at NIH around Christmas, and I figured if they didn't respond, they were probably off work. Now that the holidays are over, would it be appropriate to email back PIs who didn't respond and just saying something like, "I wanted to follow up with you about my inquiry into a post bac position in your lab for next summer/fall?" I think it would be best not to sound pushy

I don't think you have anything to lose. Two emails isn't unreasonable.

 

[deleted647690]

I don't know if you guys know about that "Researchgate" website, but I guess it has information and profiles for academic researchers to search eachother and look at papers. I have a profile on it for some reason (I think I needed to make it once because I wanted to read a paper or something on the website). Apparently, one of the PIs I reached out to is trying to learn about me through Researchgate, because I received a notification from his profile requesting info about "my current project".


I shouldn't really have projects uploaded there, right?

 

[JustAPhD]

So I emailed a bunch of PIs at NIH around Christmas, and I figured if they didn't respond, they were probably off work. Now that the holidays are over, would it be appropriate to email back PIs who didn't respond and just saying something like, "I wanted to follow up with you about my inquiry into a post bac position in your lab for next summer/fall?" I think it would be best not to sound pushy

Give it to at least the end of the week. This week can be kind of crazy for PIs as the labs get going again. Plus, they generally receive a ton of emails this week so your follow up could get lost in the noise.

 

[deleted647690]

Give it to at least the end of the week. This week can be kind of crazy for PIs as the labs get going again. Plus, they generally receive a ton of emails this week so your follow up could get lost in the noise.

Thanks, I did send a bunch today (whoops), but I'll just wait for any others I need to send. I did receive one response (rejection), and then another response from a PI who I am talking with about going to visit his lab.

Would you recommend sending a 3rd reach out email to the others if they don't respond in 1.5 weeks or so?

 

[JustAPhD]

Thanks, I did send a bunch today (whoops), but I'll just wait for any others I need to send. I did receive one response (rejection), and then another response from a PI who I am talking with about going to visit his lab.

Would you recommend sending a 3rd reach out email to the others if they don't respond in 1.5 weeks or so?

Worse they can say is no, right? Personally three emails over the course of ~3-4 weeks wouldn't annoy me.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

I don't know if you guys know about that "Researchgate" website, but I guess it has information and profiles for academic researchers to search eachother and look at papers. I have a profile on it for some reason (I think I needed to make it once because I wanted to read a paper or something on the website). Apparently, one of the PIs I reached out to is trying to learn about me through Researchgate, because I received a notification from his profile requesting info about "my current project".


I shouldn't really have projects uploaded there, right? I mean I'm just an undergrad. As I said, I did the summer SIP gig at NIH once, and I am currently working in a lab on campus. But I don't really have a "current project"

I have a Research Gate profile. I never go on it but a lot of people use it and an old PI told me to make a profile there and on ORCID.

I have information about all of my research on it.

 

[deleted647690]

One NIH PI said I can come visit his lab. Any tips? Do you think this is like an 'interview'?

 

[Sheiko]

One NIH PI said I can come visit his lab. Any tips? Do you think this is like an 'interview'?

I would treat it as such. Read their most recent papers and get an idea of what the lab does.

 

[deleted647690]

Alright, so I got another email from a PI about an interview.

So what's the best way to say to a PI when I visit them that I don't want to commit to the lab until I evaluate my options?

I still want to wait it out and see if I can go to my previous PI's lab (won't know until the end of February).

But what is the best way to phrase this when talking to these newer PI's? Should I say something like, "I am very interested in joining your lab. When would you like me to have a decision by?" I just don't want to join a lab and then regret not returning to my old PI. I also don't want to come off as someone who is not interested enough in the research to join immediately. What if they offer me a position right after the interview?

 

[Sheiko]

Alright, so I got another email from a PI about an interview.

So what's the best way to say to a PI when I visit them that I don't want to commit to the lab until I evaluate my options?

I still want to wait it out and see if I can go to my previous PI's lab (won't know until the end of February).

But what is the best way to phrase this when talking to these newer PI's? Should I say something like, "I am very interested in joining your lab. When would you like me to have a decision by?" I just don't want to join a lab and then regret not returning to my old PI. I also don't want to come off as someone who is not interested enough in the research to join immediately. What if they offer me a position right after the interview?

It's perfectly reasonable to want to wait and see what your options are, but why would you even bring this up before being offered a position? If they were to offer you a position on the spot, just be direct and tell them you are still shopping around. Maybe ask when they need an answer by.

 

[Go4Doc]

From personal experience I totally get what you mean. I was receiving offers for 3 months straight from IRTA labs. It's definitely hard to say no but you owe it to yourself and them to be candid. During the interview when it's your chance to ask questions, say something like "If i have the privilege of being invited to join your team, how soon would you need a definite answer? While I would obviously be thrilled to work in your lab, there are some other equally enticing opportunities at the NIH and I feel like I would be doing myself a disservice if I didn't at least give those labs a chance to get back to me."

 

[deleted647690]

It's perfectly reasonable to want to wait and see what your options are, but why would you even bring this up before being offered a position? If they were to offer you a position on the spot, just be direct and tell them you are still shopping around. Maybe ask when they need an answer by.

From personal experience I totally get what you mean. I was receiving offers for 3 months straight from IRTA labs. It's definitely hard to say no but you owe it to yourself and them to be candid. During the interview when it's your chance to ask questions, say something like "If i have the privilege of being invited to join your team, how soon would you need a definite answer? While I would obviously be thrilled to work in your lab, there are some other equally enticing opportunities at the NIH and I feel like I would be doing myself a disservice if I didn't at least give those labs a chance to get back to me."

Alright thank you, that's what I will do if they happen to bring it up

 

[deleted647690]

So I interviewed with a PI today. He seems like a very accomplished person (graduated from a top school, was a professor at a med school, extremely intelligent (kind of intimidating actually)). His research sounded pretty interesting. However, I'm just worried because all of his lab personnel are from a specific country, and the few I spoke to had strong accents.
He told me that he expects IRTAs to perform at the level of a post doc, independent and highly efficient. I'm just a little worried because I feel like I could get confused about things, especially if the post docs are hard to understand. Like I stated above, the PI is kind of intimidating with a sort of big ego, and he has strong political views.

He said I'd be doing a ton of surgeries, and he described how difficult they were. He described one type of surgery as so delicately difficult that even surgical residents would have trouble with it.....haha.


I just don't like the idea of not knowing how to do something and then getting on his bad side for my remaining time there.

 

[Sheiko]

So I interviewed with a PI today. He seems like a very accomplished person (graduated from a top school, was a professor at a med school, extremely intelligent (kind of intimidating actually)). His research sounded pretty interesting. However, I'm just worried because all of his lab personnel are from a specific country, and the few I spoke to had strong accents.
He told me that he expects IRTAs to perform at the level of a post doc, independent and highly efficient. I'm just a little worried because I feel like I could get confused about things, especially if the post docs are hard to understand. Like I stated above, the PI is kind of intimidating with a sort of big ego, and he has strong political views.

He said I'd be doing a ton of surgeries, and he described how difficult they were. He described one type of surgery as so delicately difficult that even surgical residents would have trouble with it.....haha.

However, he said my PI recommended me, and he was impressed with my past experiences, so I'll take this job if my old PI doesn't pan out I guess.

I just don't like the idea of not knowing how to do something and then getting on his bad side for my remaining time there.

I think fit is incredibly important when deciding where to go. If you feel you wouldn't succeed in that lab's environment, then I would trust your gut.

That being said, I am the only American in my lab. While there are sometimes communication issues, I really wouldn't worry about it to much. Plus, lots of foreign folks in your lab mean good food (srs)

 

[Go4Doc]

I think fit is incredibly important when deciding where to go. If you feel you wouldn't succeed in that lab's environment, then I would trust your gut.

That being said, I am the only American in my lab. While there are sometimes communication issues, I really wouldn't worry about it to much. Plus, lots of foreign folks in your lab mean good food (srs)

I can definitely attest to this. I was one of only two Americans in the lab at Mayo I worked at as a research fellow. Easily the best Korean BBQ I've ever had. Also they'll usually be very appreciative of having a native English speaker to assist in writing papers.

But I'd also agree that fit is very important. If deep in your gut, you're truly uneasy, I wouldn't go for it.

 

[deleted647690]

So I spoke with another PI today.

His lab seems like the perfect learning/working environment. He is very education oriented, and he seems to really care about the success of his IRTA students. He is actually a DO himself, so I guess he has more of an understanding. He also explained to me that he would give me allotted study time for the mcat if I needed to retake it (I told him I would take it in late June and then could start working). I liked this PI a lot; he seemed empathetic

The only con is that his research, although it is somewhat similar to the other PI's research (they are in the same institute at the NIH), is less interesting to me. I could see myself being interested in it, but to be honest, the other guy's research is more interesting.

To top it off, the other PI, who I interviewed with a few days ago, saw me while I was waiting to interview. I got nervous because it felt awkward, almost like he would think I was offended by him since I was there to interview by another lab haha. Just a few hours later, that PI sent me an email letting me know some of the great places where his previous IRTAs had gotten into med/graduate school.

Of course, this current PI that I interviewed with also had previous students get into med/graduate school (some less impressive ones maybe). But I guess that isn't that important.




So my question, is there any advice you can give regarding how to choose which lab? So one lab seems like a great working environment, maybe not as interesting research, while the other lab seems more interesting, but a potentially more intimidating PI.

I mean, the other PI wasn't that bad. He was pretty nice, but he just seemed to be less education focused I guess, and more focused on me being very independent as soon as possible. And I was just a little worried about the foreign speakers in his lab.


And I still haven't heard back from my former PI (who I worked with a few summers ago). If he has an opening, that will make the decision harder....He was pretty nice, and his research was awesome

 

[Sheiko]

I personally think you should go for the lab with the better environment, I really think this is the key to being successful. You might think the research is less interesting, but you will hone your problem solving skills in any case and I believe that is what you should be looking to get out of this (in addition to being productive and getting published).

Also, you might find your interest increases as you get more involved and learn about the field. This was my experience.

Good luck!