Post-Bac

[newyorkisrainin]

---

Members don't see this ad.

So, I'm sure this is oft-repeated question, but I'm thinking of starting a post-bac in the spring; wondering if it's even worth it or if I should just start a Masters. GPA = 2.67, with all the prereq's already in there. Obviously I need to raise my GPA but I would also be fond of not doing 4 more years of undergrad, especially as I will be working full time. Any suggestions would be extremely helpful. Thanks!

 

[Moki]

How old are you? What are you currently doing for work? What is the background on your GPA? How long ago was college? What kind of degree did you get? From what type of school?

The reason that I ask is that a 2.67 will be difficult to overcome. Any advice will depend on where you are in the grand scheme of life.

Provide a bit more detail about yourself and I'd be more than happy to give you my perspective.

 

[Maxprime]

It depends on what route you're going (2.67 may fly in the Caribbean - ask them), but it won't fly in the states for an allopathic school. The general consensus is that undergrad GPAs are weighted MUCH higher than graduate GPAs - so unless you have 300,000 hours, work to bring up your UG GPA first.

 

[nanaschool2000]

The best advice I can give is..

1) Do a formal/structured Post-Bacc program (Like Moki and Maxprime said, Graduate work wouldn't do any good)
2) If you can't get into SMP or Formal Post Bacc program, you can take classes as a non-degree student then apply for SMP/Formal Post Bacc
3) Work you ass off for MCAT. I believe you might need over 30 to make up for 2.67 UG gpa

Don't lose your hope. I know people who had a low UG gpa but later got into med school after doing Post Bacc. Of course, it's not going to be easy. But if you want to become a physician, GO FOR IT!!!

 

[newyorkisrainin]

How old are you? What are you currently doing for work? What is the background on your GPA? How long ago was college? What kind of degree did you get? From what type of school?

The reason that I ask is that a 2.67 will be difficult to overcome. Any advice will depend on where you are in the grand scheme of life.

Provide a bit more detail about yourself and I'd be more than happy to give you my perspective.

Thanks for all the advice, just for more info: just graduated, science/bio degree from a top 5 LAC, now am in the medical research field. Hispanic minority, first in family to graduate from college. There was no significant upward trend, and no true sob story behind the low gpa.

 

[Moki]

Thanks for all the advice, just for more info: just graduated, science/bio degree from a top 5 LAC, now am in the medical research field. Hispanic minority, first in family to graduate from college. There was no significant upward trend, and no true sob story behind the low gpa.

If that is the case, then I would recommend that you take a little time. Work within the field and continue to take a course or two a semester. You may even be able to get your place of employment to pay for them. The courses could be advanced science just for the sake of increasing your knowledge base or toward an MS or even within the post bac arena. Make sure that you have the best grades you can pull in the prereqs. Depending on what they are now, the post bac may be the best route. If you do decide to do or redo the prereqs, I would recommend that you only take one course the first semester. Use every source available to you to get that A (tutors ?). If they won’t let you in the post bac program, take the course (probably chem.) anyway for undergrad credit and, after you get the A, go back to them. Persistence is a marvelous teacher and most people respect it.

I think your primary goal should be to figure out what needs to change in your life and/or study habits, so that you can improve your GPA and overall stats. If I were on the adcom, it would be easier for me to buy a PS explaining how much you have grown and how committed to the medical profession you are with more time away from your undergrad graduation date. Obviously, you would need to have concrete accomplishments to back it up. For example, successful work history (preferably medical related), all As in the prereqs, and a good MCAT. Consider also volunteering in a clinic in a underserved community. If you end up applying to a state school, your involvement in realm will be of interest (If they put time and attention into you by accepting you, perhaps (as evidenced by your involvement and commitment now )you will remain in the state and help the areas that most need it, thereby lessening part of the State’s burden.)

Your PS will also go a long way. Over the next 2-3 years, eat, breathe, and sleep with these questions: Why medical school? Why should we take a chance on you? What have you learned since college that will make you successful in medical school? Don’t apologize for your GPA. Do something to show that you learned and can now get better grades and handle the rigor of med school. Get them on your side.

Depending on how we spend it, time has a marvelous way of offering second chances. At this point, I think time is your friend. My recommendation would be to not rush.

Best of luck to you.

 

[newyorkisrainin]

If that is the case, then I would recommend that you take a little time. Work within the field and continue to take a course or two a semester. You may even be able to get your place of employment to pay for them. The courses could be advanced science just for the sake of increasing your knowledge base or toward an MS or even within the post bac arena. Make sure that you have the best grades you can pull in the prereqs. Depending on what they are now, the post bac may be the best route. If you do decide to do or redo the prereqs, I would recommend that you only take one course the first semester. Use every source available to you to get that A (tutors ?). If they won’t let you in the post bac program, take the course (probably chem.) anyway for undergrad credit and, after you get the A, go back to them. Persistence is a marvelous teacher and most people respect it.

I think your primary goal should be to figure out what needs to change in your life and/or study habits, so that you can improve your GPA and overall stats. If I were on the adcom, it would be easier for me to buy a PS explaining how much you have grown and how committed to the medical profession you are with more time away from your undergrad graduation date. Obviously, you would need to have concrete accomplishments to back it up. For example, successful work history (preferably medical related), all As in the prereqs, and a good MCAT. Consider also volunteering in a clinic in a underserved community. If you end up applying to a state school, your involvement in realm will be of interest (If they put time and attention into you by accepting you, perhaps (as evidenced by your involvement and commitment now )you will remain in the state and help the areas that most need it, thereby lessening part of the State’s burden.)

Your PS will also go a long way. Over the next 2-3 years, eat, breathe, and sleep with these questions: Why medical school? Why should we take a chance on you? What have you learned since college that will make you successful in medical school? Don’t apologize for your GPA. Do something to show that you learned and can now get better grades and handle the rigor of med school. Get them on your side.

Depending on how we spend it, time has a marvelous way of offering second chances. At this point, I think time is your friend. My recommendation would be to not rush.

Best of luck to you.

thanks again for the advice. i definitely don't plan on applying until at least 2008, so there's no rush there. I think being out of school and working gives me much more of the structure I need to do well now that I've gotten college living out of my system. another question, is it advisable to redo lower level prereqs, say bio 102, or to take an advanced biology class? thanks! Also, randomly, does anyone have any experience applying to US schools from a year abroad?

 

[emeraldsky]

i have two friends-- friend A had a solid 3.6 gpa and applied to med school got one interview and got in to one of her bottom choice schools. friend B had a "mere" 3.0, all pre-med advisors told her she would never get into med school and she shouldn't even bother trying. Friend B applied anyway and because she had a rich extracurricular background and passionate interview, she was able to overcome it. she was invited to 4 interviews from her top choice schools, and is now incredibly happy at one of those schools.

my gpa is about the same as yours. but i refuse to let people convince me that i can't overcome it because they're not med school admissions officers so they can't know. i am currently working and will be doing post-baccs next year (regardless of whether a formal program accepts me or i have to do it all myself). and i am prepared to defend my grades and show off my extracurrics because i did some stellar work that made a much better human being than just having my head stuck in a book 24/7. and if the med schools i apply to continue to grill me about my gpa and tell me my extracurrics weren't enough, obviously i wouldn't want to be at such a med school anyway.

med schools now ARE looking for much more diversity and a rich background. don't let your gpa get you down. it's tough-- not impossible. good luck!

 

[Moki]

thanks again for the advice. i definitely don't plan on applying until at least 2008, so there's no rush there. I think being out of school and working gives me much more of the structure I need to do well now that I've gotten college living out of my system. another question, is it advisable to redo lower level prereqs, say bio 102, or to take an advanced biology class? thanks! Also, randomly, does anyone have any experience applying to US schools from a year abroad?

What are your grades for the prereqs, including labs?

What is your concern about applying to U.S. schools from a year abroad?

 

[newyorkisrainin]

What are your grades for the prereqs, including labs?

What is your concern about applying to U.S. schools from a year abroad?

C+, C in first year bio, and physics.
The abroad question comes because I plan on going abroad in 2-3 years, but have not yet decided whether to apply during that year or after

 

[Moki]

C+, C in first year bio, and physics.
The abroad question comes because I plan on going abroad in 2-3 years, but have not yet decided whether to apply during that year or after

Definitely redo all of the prereqs. Start with Chemistry. Physics is difficult and Bio builds on chemistry. All As this time!!!

I would suspect that your major issue with being abroad would be logistical and the added mailing expenses. Not to mention meeting deadlines. Otherwise, I have no idea. Maybe post separately on the issue. . . .

 

[newyorkisrainin]

Definitely redo all of the prereqs. Start with Chemistry. Physics is difficult and Bio builds on chemistry. All As this time!!!

I would suspect that your major issue with being abroad would be logistical and the added mailing expenses. Not to mention meeting deadlines. Otherwise, I have no idea. Maybe post separately on the issue. . . .

Of Course! Did fine in chem though, all B's....

 

[dr. dreigh]

I read your original post about deciding between a post-bac and masters program. I have also been going through the same situation. I graduated 4 years ago from UC Berkeley with a BS Chemistry. My undergrad sci gpa is 2.8, overall gpa is 3.1, and MCAT is 26Q. I applied to med school last year and did not even get an interview. I have spoken to admissions counselors about my application. I have strong LORs, good ECs, and a strong PS (according to what they told me). Their advice to me was to work on my low gpa and to retake my MCAT.

I was thinking of doing an informal post-bac program at a state university. I would take 3-4 upper div bio classes each semester for 3 or 4 semesters. Recently, I was accepted into a masters in forensics science program at Drexel. Initially, I was set on going with the post-bac route because that was the only way to boost up my undergrad sci gpa. I also heard that doing well in a masters program would not be as good as doing well in additional undergrad courses.

I decided to ignore the issue of undergrad vs. grad gpa for now. I started to think of the pros and cons of each option:

Post-bacc pros:
1. improve undergrad gpa
2. more flexible schedule. I don't have to take a class I don't like or think I won't do well in.

Post-bacc cons:
1. because I was admitted with a second bachelor's option, my registration priority is not high. For example, this semester I was only able to register for 12 units. The ability to get more classes could change next semester, but I did not want to take the chance of getting the "leftover" courses. I would not have a guaranteed rigorous schedule.
3. I would need to take a significant number of courses to even make a slight dent in my undergrad gpa.

Masters pros:
1. guaranteed schedule
2. university has a medical school. The program does not have a linkage program. However, if I apply to that school for medical school, they may have a better idea of the course difficulty.
3. the program is part of the college of medicine. Some of the professors teach the grad courses and that could get me some really good LORs.
4. the program offers internships and research opportunities

Masters cons:
1. does not improve undergrad gpa
2. some schools may not take success in grad program as being better than doing success in undergrad courses

Your situation may be different, but this is from my personal experience and perspective of things. I had a better idea of what would be better for myself: the masters program. However, there was the issue of improving my undergrad gpa. I spoke to several admissions people about the issue and surprisingly, they said that they liked the idea of the forensics program for the same reasons I had. According to some schools, doing well in a grad program without taking further steps to improve my undergrad gpa will not hurt me. There are some schools who screen based solely on undergrad gpa, but there are also schools who will look at overall improvement. FYI, I got similar opinions from UCLA, UCI, Rosalind Franklin, VCU, and Morehouse, although the UCs admitted they tend to look at undergrad gpa more.

With that being said, I have decided to go with the masters in forensics program at Drexel. I'm sure there are some schools like the UCs who won't give me a chance because of my undergrad gpa, but you know what? When I applied last year, although I didn't get an interview, UCSF was forgiving enough to give me a secondary. So there is hope that there are schools who want to look at the applicant as a person and not just a gpa.

I know this might be a lot, but I just wanted to tell you my perspective of picking a masters program over an informal post-bacc program. I hope this helps you.

 

[sendwich]

take a full-load of courses at your local college and bust your butt off to get as much A's as possible. If you want it enough, you can make it happen. there are too many stories here to prove that.

gluck!

 

[mshheaddoc]

I had a lower gpa but my degree was non-science. I have been taking classes the past year or so and will continue to while applying next year. If you want to get into MD I would highly suggest trying to take more science classes undergrad wise.

You have the URM, first generation college thing going for you.

I would also suggest the masters route but not until you boosted your gpa a little. Your experience will make up for some of your gpa (especially if you can get some good research published. Also, your mcat will play a big part in it.

 

[newyorkisrainin]

thanks for all the advice everyone!

 

[Instatewaiter]

IMO, I think you should do a structured formal program, whether graduate level or a post-bac. They offer a nice path, guidance and many have excellent linkage to MD/DO programs. When you are in a formal program, you get the feeling that you are really working directly to get into medical school as opposed to an informal program where you may get distracted and fall right back into the rut you are trying to get out of. Usually the tone in these programs is much different than Ugrad, especially the graduate programs.

Obviously you need to do well on the MCATs. Sub-28 is probably not going to cut it since you will seem like you dont have the capacity for med school. But, a great MCAT will still not overcome the GPA; you'll just look like a smart slacker. Most of medical school is just about hard work. Sure there are some small things that are difficult but most of the difficulty comes from the sheer amount of information you are given to go through. That is why Ugrad GPA matters. It shows you are a hard worker.

Whatever you choose, make sure you go balls-to-the-wall. Another year of sub-par performance (anything below a 3.3) especially in undergrad classes will put the nails in the coffin. You need to show you are capable of doing well.

Don't get discrouraged though. From where you sit, it is very do-able. I graduated from college in a similar situation: 2.8 GPA. At the recommendation of my advisor and a few med deans, I opted for a 1 year graduate level program after college. I worked hard and did really well in the program. I got into medical school during the spring semester of the graduate program. If you really work hard, you will get in w/in 2-3 years.