post-bacc irta

[scarlet5565]

Hi everyone. I have a simple question. Not sure if anyone here can answer it but hopefully someone can. I am going to be a post-bacc IRTA at the NIH soon. I am intersted in applying to md/phd programs so i figured this will be a good start, but that is beyond my point. I couldn't find the information to this anywhere and the people I am going to work with did not know the answer either. So forgive me if this is a dumb question.

Anyway if I go to through with the NIH post-bacc program am I going to be required to change my state resideny to MD, or can I keep my state residency to my home state. Ideally I would just want to be there for the 1-2 years and leave to go grad school and would not want to change my state residency. If anyone has gone through this program please let me know. Thanks!

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[itsallthesame]

that depends on md state law and the law of your home state, but...

generally if you are financially independent, earn a majority of your income in a state and spend a majority of your time in a state, it will be very hard to claim residence in another state.

but, the only way to really answer this question is to look up the specific laws of your home state and the required documentation to prove residency.

the good news: mstp programs generally/always don't discriminate based on state residency. and at least a few non mstp programs aren't state schools. i wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[fairalexfield]

I'm currently an NIH post-bac at the Bethesda campus. I'm originally from Connecticut and I haven't had to change my residency. I was able to register and vote in Maryland, I'll have to pay Maryland state taxes, but I didn't lose my CT resident status. I'm sure it's different from state to state, so definitely check out your own state laws. Hope this cleared some things up.

 

[CancerKiller007]

Talk with Debbie Cohen. She is a IRTA coordinator, and she will be the ultimate person to talk to. She can even write letter to explain the situation to the school. I would suggest that meet with her as soon as you get here.

I know some one from WA state was able to retain his residency as UW does not take out of state student.

 

[Neuronix]

As I try to remember back to the hazy years when I applied...

I was born, raised, and went to college in Delaware, which is a crappy place to be from for all kinds of reasons. One of the many reasons is because they have no med school and they have this BS deal with Jefferson that barely helps you get in and doesn't give you any tuition break. AWESOME!

My dad moved to Maryland before I started college. I moved out of the house when I was 17 so I didn't exactly live there. Where did I live? Well here, there, everywhere. DE, PA, MD, etc...

When it came time to apply I paid my taxes in MD, my driver's license was already at dad's address, but there was one problem. I never changed my voter registration to MD! That's one of the things they ask about on the form, and they disqualified me for MD residency for medical school based on it! Awesome! I was then a resident of no state.

Anyways, the point of that story was to check out that form early and try to get all your bases covered asap if you're going to make the state residency switch.

 

[gbwillner]

Not really sure why it matters. I don't think you have to "declare" residence or anything like that. I was an IRTA back in 1999 and I was an AZ resident. I paid MD taxes. I interviewed at an AZ school that only takes AZ residents... so it didn't hurt me in the slightest. I even had an AZ drivers license with a MD address on it (coupled with an expiration date of 2042 gave led to a lot of puzzling looks when I got carded).

 

[scarlet5565]

Thanks for your replies. I am currently from NJ. The reason I would not want to change my residency is because I do not want to be discriminated against if I apply to UMDNJ as an MD only applicant, as they have two state med schools in NJ. I was planning on doing nothing as far as changing my residency, and just keeping my NJ residency. I don't have a desire to vote in MD elections or anything (no offense to MD people) The only reason I started questioning this was because a friend told me that I might get in trouble when tax time comes.

I am not sure what the NJ law is...what would be the best way to look it up ?
On a side note, I know someone who is a surgery resident in NYC but still has his permanent address in NJ...could this mean anything ?

Sorry about all the questions, but I am pretty clueless when it comes to this stuff. Ideally I would want to do nothing and stay a NJ resident for the 2 years I am there.

 

[itsallthesame]

http://www.njit.edu/financialaid/costs/residency.php

It's a little thing they invented called google. But seriously, you should simply call and ask. Legally speaking, if you are claimed as a dependent by your parents who still live in jersey, you should be fine; however, that dependency legally expires if you are over 18 (i think) and some combination of spending less than 6 or 7 (you can look up the tax code yourself) months of the year as a full time student and more than 50% of your financial support (so if you are paying your own rent, chances are good that's the case).

If so, you may have a hard time proving residency when the time comes, even with a DL. Also, you can't legally work in one state and pay the income tax in another... they'll have a fit. To really be safe, you'd need to rent or own property in NJ...

 

[scarlet5565]

http://www.njit.edu/financialaid/costs/residency.php

It's a little thing they invented called google. But seriously, you should simply call and ask. Legally speaking, if you are claimed as a dependent by your parents who still live in jersey, you should be fine; however, that dependency legally expires if you are over 18 (i think) and some combination of spending less than 6 or 7 (you can look up the tax code yourself) months of the year as a full time student and more than 50% of your financial support (so if you are paying your own rent, chances are good that's the case).

If so, you may have a hard time proving residency when the time comes, even with a DL. Also, you can't legally work in one state and pay the income tax in another... they'll have a fit. To really be safe, you'd need to rent or own property in NJ...

Thanks for this. I guess I a little confused on why I need to change my residency. Does the fact I will be renting an apartment in MD and working in MD simply force me to change my residency ?

I'm confused because this isn't a permanent appointment and it is only a fellowship. So after 2 years I will be moving back to NJ. Another thing is technically I am on a stipend not salary, and I the stipend is only little over 25k for a post-bacc. So, can I claim dependent on parents if due to my low income.

I guess it isn't that low really, I know people survive on even less.

 

[itsallthesame]

Dependency status relies on the IRS definition as follows:

To be someone's dependent you must satisfy ALL of the following:
1) You are their child.
2) You are a US resident for part of the year.
3) You must be single, married but not filing jointly, or married but filing jointly only to claim a refund of withheld tax.
4) Either A) your gross TAXABLE income (I'm not sure if the stipend is taxable or not) is less than ~$4k, B) you are under 19 or C) you are under 24 and a full time student (it's going to be hard to prove this part)
5) They paid more than 50% of your total support for the year (basically, they'd have to spend more than whatever post-tax money you see following the stipend is)

I know it's kinda dumb, I got stuck with a bad state residency by going out of state for a job, too. However, I think the reason is generally simple. Why should a person who leaves their state to make all their money get the benefit of tax payers $ from that state.

Look on the bright side: you want to do MD/PhD, so your state residency matters less, and this fellowship will probably help your application way more than staying in state would.

Finally, the only real way to know how the NJ medical school would treat your case would be to shoot admissions a quick e-mail or do a more comprehensive search of their site.

 

[gbwillner]

Again, this is all stupid.
You will not have to pay any NJ taxes unless you work in NJ or own property in NJ. Because you work in MD, you will have to pay MD state (as well as federal) taxes. You will not be in any trouble what-so-ever unless you DON'T pay taxes.
Secondly, the state residence matter is not a legal issue. Residence (for enrollment purposes) is determined by the institution to which you are applying. Some say that you need to live in their state for 2 years, some 1, some it doesn't matter as long as you own property. You have lived in NJ for an extended period of time, so none of this applies to you. As long as you tell your institution of interest that you are a NJ resident, and that you went to the NIH for training only and not to establish residence, you will be OK. Second of all, your permanent residence (your mom's house) is a NJ address. They won't even know you're not from NJ. Third, by the time you apply to medical school you will still be a NJ resident since you will not have lived in MD long enough to establish residence, so all of this is moot. Fourth, I'm pretty sure no one will knock you for going to the NIH, and if they do, they don't deserve you.

 

[Cytotoxic]

Dependency status relies on the IRS definition as follows:

To be someone's dependent you must satisfy ALL of the following:
1) You are their child.
2) You are a US resident for part of the year.
3) You must be single, married but not filing jointly, or married but filing jointly only to claim a refund of withheld tax.
4) Either A) your gross TAXABLE income (I'm not sure if the stipend is taxable or not) is less than ~$4k, B) you are under 19 or C) you are under 24 and a full time student (it's going to be hard to prove this part)
5) They paid more than 50% of your total support for the year (basically, they'd have to spend more than whatever post-tax money you see following the stipend is)

Post-bac IRTAs are considered full-time students (graduate fellows). It's why we can defer our student loans.

 

[scarlet5565]

Hey everyone thanks for your replies. I think I'm clear on the residency issue now. I know it was silly to worry about, but just wanted to be sure. Thanks again.

On a side note, I have one last question for those who were post-bacc IRTAs for the NIH. I just recently received my paperwork in the mail and it request a "medical examination". Can you guys shed some light on what this might be ?

To me it sounds like it is a physical evaluation (e.g. eye check, how much you can lift, etc..) or is there more to it than that ?

 

[mtlove]

Former IRTA here. As others have said, it depends on your original state of residency. Some states specify that you have to actually reside in the state to keep the residency, so you will loose it in the case of an IRTA. If this is your situation, switch everything to Maryland when you get there or you will not have a state of residency at all (happens to a fair number of IRTAs). If your old state does not care where you reside, then you will be fine (just dont change anything over). The con with this is you have to pay more in taxes as a non MD resident.

Have fun at NIH!

 

[scarlet5565]

Thanks mtlove. I am pretty sure NJ does not care where you actually live like you said. I don't think there will be a need to change my residency. As I mentioned I contacted people I know who worked out of state for whatever reason (residency, work during med school/college, out-of-state internships) and none of them had to change residency. When it came to filing income taxes you just had to file for both states...in my case MD and NJ. So I am going to assume it will be the same for me.

For the former IRTAs I need recommendations on what are the best places to stay. I currently narrow down my apartment choices to one in rockville, md near the bethesda-rockville border near the red line metro. (slightly more suburban)

The other is actually in bethesda near the NIH. (near the downtown stuff) Which one is better ? I am pretty much looking for a eventful and social life while I am down there. I just want to continue a semi-collegiate lifestyle whenever possible.
(e.g. I know NIH research will take much time so I don't except to have too much time on my hands).

I was thinking of looking inside DC near a metro, but am not sure.
Any tips ? Where did most of the IRTAs stay in your guys experience ?

 

[mtlove]

Anywhere along the red line is a good place to live. If you stay on the Shady grove side you can take the train (not silver spring). If you want to live in a more social area, live in DC or Bethesda. Rockville and some of the other suburbs lack this (but you can go to DC to get it). Make sure you are near a metro stop/ shops, if you will not have a car. Join the CLub PCR list serve ASAP to find housing/roommates in the area.

 

[gbwillner]

The other is actually in bethesda near the NIH. (near the downtown stuff) Which one is better ? I am pretty much looking for a eventful and social life while I am down there. I just want to continue a semi-collegiate lifestyle whenever possible.
(e.g. I know NIH research will take much time so I don't except to have too much time on my hands).

I was thinking of looking inside DC near a metro, but am not sure.
Any tips ? Where did most of the IRTAs stay in your guys experience ?

DON'T live in Rockville!!!! you will be bored to tears, and if you are too far from the metro you will have to commute in the worst traffic in the city. Living in downtown Bethesda means you can either take the metro or the NIH shuttle that picks up in a few locations. Downtown Bethesday is pretty nice, but in general an older crowd. I lived there as an IRTA. Your best bet would be on the red line south of bethesda... pretty much anywhere. The area around the zoo/Adams Morgan used to be fairly affordable.