post bacc or masters program with my stats?

[jep42]

hey future doctors, i need help.

science gpa = 3.2
overall gpa = 3.5
mcat = 8, 8, 10, Q

ec's: basic science research internship for 1 yr, clinical science research 1yr, healthcare ethics internship in hospital 1yr, community daycare volunteer 3 yrs, hospital volunteer 2 yrs, employed research assistant 3yrs (with publications, etc)

should i go for a post bacc or special masters program?

and is it late to apply to these programs?

please get back to me... thank you.

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[Law2Doc]

hey future doctors, i need help.

science gpa = 3.2
overall gpa = 3.5
mcat = 8, 8, 10, Q

ec's: basic science research internship for 1 yr, clinical science research 1yr, healthcare ethics internship in hospital 1yr, community daycare volunteer 3 yrs, hospital volunteer 2 yrs, employed research assistant 3yrs (with publications, etc)

should i go for a post bacc or special masters program?

and is it late to apply to these programs?

please get back to me... thank you.

Just on first blush, your biggest hurdle is really a low MCAT, which neither the postbac nor masters will address. 5 more points and you probably have "adequate" numbers. I think both of these things -a postbac involving upper level sciences, to raise the GPA, or a masters (an SMP or hard sciences masters), could help you somewhat in terms of demonstrating an ability in the sciences perhaps not evident from your borderline BCPM. Either is probably fine in your case.

 

[jep42]

Just on first blush, your biggest hurdle is really a low MCAT, which neither the postbac nor masters will address. 5 more points and you probably have "adequate" numbers. I think both of these things -a postbac involving upper level sciences, to raise the GPA, or a masters (an SMP or hard sciences masters), could help you somewhat in terms of demonstrating an ability in the sciences perhaps not evident from your borderline BCPM. Either is probably fine in your case.

Law2Doc, thanks for getting back to me. I'm still torn tho. I feel that I can retake the MCAT eventually, but which would be preferable: taking a bunch of upper level science courses at a state university or trying to get into an SMP? or staying in state and getting a hard science masters?

perhaps taking upper division undergrad science courses would be most feasible, but would doing well in a masters program more demonstrate my ability to do well in grad level course work in med school?

 

[Law2Doc]

Law2Doc, thanks for getting back to me. I'm still torn tho. I feel that I can retake the MCAT eventually, but which would be preferable: taking a bunch of upper level science courses at a state university or trying to get into an SMP? or staying in state and getting a hard science masters?

perhaps taking upper division undergrad science courses would be most feasible, but would doing well in a masters program more demonstrate my ability to do well in grad level course work in med school?

I think it's probably a wash between the two- Some places will like one over the other. A's in a postbac that edges up your BCPM is probably the safer bet.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I wouldn't call an MCAT of 26 REALLY low. Maybe for his GPA but I know people who interviewed with a 26 and have gotten accepted. In guess it depends how people look at it.

 

[Law2Doc]

I wouldn't call an MCAT of 26 REALLY low. Maybe for his GPA but I know people who interviewed with a 26 and have gotten accepted. In guess it depends how people look at it.

You misread. I was trying to say that the OPs problem was "really that the MCAT was low" (as opposed to a GPA problem). Not that it was "really low".

 

[USArmyDoc]

You misread. I was trying to say that the OPs problem was "really that the MCAT was low" (as opposed to a GPA problem). Not that it was "really low".

Oops...sorry

 

[Beth_W737]

Regarding whether it's too late to apply, the post-bac programs often have rolling admissions and the sooner you get them in, the better chance you probably have. Last year I applied to Bryn Mawr but sent my application in near the end of the cycle, and by the time my last transcript arrived, most or all the spots were filled, and I got rejected without an interview. I reapplied this year, and was told I had a better chance since most spots were open, and that the reason I didn't get in the year before was probably because most or all the spots were already filled. I was invited for an interview with Bryn Mawr, which is early next week, and am so excited, and nervous (and would welcome any interview tips - my email is [email protected] and my name is Beth). However, you also have to be careful - some of the post-bac programs are meant for students who have not had science courses or had few science courses and have not taken the MCAT, so there may not be much point in applying to those, as they are not as likely to admit someone who has had all the pre-reqs. There are post-bacs meant for people who had the sciences and want to improve them, and you should aim for that type of program if you decide to go with a post-bac. Here's a link that shows which programs are for those with no sciences, for those who want to retake the sciences or improve their grades and chances, and those for minorities.

http://hpap.syr.edu/LISTPB.HTM

I'm applying to some from both categories, as I had 2 of the science pre-reqs - Gen Bio and Gen Chem, though I took the two semesters of Gen Chem several years apart, and took the 2nd semester pass/fail, and the first semester I took 5+ years ago, so had planned on retaking Gen Chem. So hopefully that won't put me out of the running for those that require very few sciences, like Bryn Mawr's program.

Best of luck.

Beth

PS Feel free to email me at [email protected] if you have any other questions - or if you have advice for my interview early next week - try to get the advice to me no later than Sun or else it may not help.

hey future doctors, i need help.

science gpa = 3.2
overall gpa = 3.5
mcat = 8, 8, 10, Q

ec's: basic science research internship for 1 yr, clinical science research 1yr, healthcare ethics internship in hospital 1yr, community daycare volunteer 3 yrs, hospital volunteer 2 yrs, employed research assistant 3yrs (with publications, etc)

should i go for a post bacc or special masters program?

and is it late to apply to these programs?

please get back to me... thank you.

 

[jep42]

thanks to each of you. here's a plan i'm musterin up. could you pls tell me what you think?

1. apply to SMP's now
2. study for April MCAT
3. if MCAT isn't great, take the August MCAT
4. if don't get into an SMP:
- take upper division sci courses at state university to boost gpa
5. then take GRE and apply for a hard science masters (perhaps SMP again)

 

[jebus]

I like your plan. I don't know if you will need to take the GRE - and I realize that it's at the bottom of your list - you will need to do well on the MCAT to get into an SMP and eventually a medical school. Be confident about your chances to succeed at the MCAT.
The link to syracuse that beth_w posted is good. I thought the descriptions were a nice touch. I would also suggest you look at this page because it provides a more comprehensive list of schools: http://services.aamc.org/postbac/
If you are unsure whether you should pursue an SMP or upper-level science courses you should talk to a Dean of Admissions at a local medical school. The insight you get here will be worthwhile but input from someone on the inside will be more pointed and may enable you to get a foot in the door and make some valuable contacts.
Good luck.

 

[gardengirl]

Crush the MCAT. Don't leave wiggle room to re-take in August (i think you can only sit for the exam 3 times within a certain number of years...)

Good luck! You can do this!

 

[relentless11]

thanks to each of you. here's a plan i'm musterin up. could you pls tell me what you think?

1. apply to SMP's now
2. study for April MCAT
3. if MCAT isn't great, take the August MCAT
4. if don't get into an SMP:
- take upper division sci courses at state university to boost gpa
5. then take GRE and apply for a hard science masters (perhaps SMP again)

Well any post-bacc or SMP, or whatever program that allows you to take more classes never hurts. Unless one has a 4.0 GPA, then more A's is never a bad thing . The question is do you have the time and money readily available for these programs. They are sometimes expensive...reason why I went the grad school route.

Your MCAT could be better, but I've seen people with lower MCATs. I agree that you should retake it, BUT take it when YOU ARE READY. As GardenGirl stated, you can only take it 3 times, and I think taking it beyond 3 times requires some special permission from AAMC. I don't even know how hard it is to do that. You should aim for 28 and above. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe the national average is about 28. Averages don't say too much though..so aim higher than the mean .

Also research where you want to apply to. Over here in CA, my school treats MCATs and undergrad GPA EQUALLY. If you can get your undergrad GPA to the 3.4 range, and 28+ on your MCAT, it would probably be in a happier place. (of course higher the better)

Lastly in regards to grad school. You can check to see if the grad program allows you substitute your MCAT for the GRE. That is what I did. This would allow you to avoid the GRE. The basic GRE is easy, but if your program requires the subject GRE, like say biology...then it can be more annoying (or more difficult) than the MCAT.

On another note, what do you mean by a "hard science masters". I personally think any of the graduate science subject areas as hard. Really the graduate school life is hard in general..haha. Usually adcoms won't care about what program you are in. MPH, or MS in Biology, Chemistry, Biomedical Engineering, etc. The most important thing is what YOU like...not what you think the adcoms will be impressed with. I was admitted to programs in biomedical engineering, and pathology. I chose pathology because it will be more useful during med school (e.g.: all the wonderous pathology courses we take), I knew the PI, and didn't want to review differential equations, and laplace transforms..... *shuddering*. ..lol

Anyway....KNOW what you are getting yourself into in terms of grad school. Some people I know have become dissappointed with this choice in their lives. While others are ecstatic (like me). Please note that graduate GPA has less weight than your undergrad GPA...to some extent. Leaving a grad program prematurely is also frowned upon by adcoms. Good luck!

 

[jep42]

you're all so wonderful. thank you for the inspiration and motivation..

 

[LT2]

hi-

i just wanted to post my $0.02 as someone who went the hard science master's route. i think for all intensive purposes, it has made me stand out a bit because i have another degree. HOWEVER, it has done NOTHING for me at more competitive schools (as my ug GPA is lower than the average at a lot of schools). i would have done better to take some more classes as an undergrad. i'm glad some schools look at the whole package and don't make cuts strictly off numbers. so, if you are looking to make yourself competitive from the get go, do some more ug work to raise your GPA. a lot of schools look at graduate course grades as "inflated" which is unfair, but that's life. another thing to think about which i think someone mentioned earlier. if you do go for a master's, be sure you're ready to put in the work. if it's a research based master's, it may take you much longer than anticipated to finish (i learned this the hard way). if you have any questions, feel free to PM me. good luck!

 

[jebus]

So, LT2, I appreciate your input and I have some more questions for you, your 2¢ are going to keep adding up.
In your experience, which schools regard your graduate work as important? and unimportant? If you had to do it all over would you
A)work on your UG GPA exclusively?
B)matriculate in an SMP? (1 year like Georgetown or 2 years like Boston or 1.5 like some other place?)
C)do the same thing and pursue a hard masters again?
Also, how far below the averages was your UG GPA? I don't want specifics but mine is ~3.3. Was yours similar?
Thanks for any more ¢. (yes, that's a play on words.)

 

[Maurizio]

In your experience, which schools regard your graduate work as important? and unimportant?

It seems like research intense schools tend to value graduate degrees. These tend to be some of the upper level schools, which makes sense since these are the top schools because they are research intensive. Schools which focus more on primary care seem to put less emphasis on a graduate degree (or research experience in general) and a little more on your GPA, MCAT, ECs etc.

 

[LT2]

So, LT2, I appreciate your input and I have some more questions for you, your 2¢ are going to keep adding up.
In your experience, which schools regard your graduate work as important? and unimportant? If you had to do it all over would you
A)work on your UG GPA exclusively?
B)matriculate in an SMP? (1 year like Georgetown or 2 years like Boston or 1.5 like some other place?)
C)do the same thing and pursue a hard masters again?
Also, how far below the averages was your UG GPA? I don't want specifics but mine is ~3.3. Was yours similar?
Thanks for any more ¢. (yes, that's a play on words.)

hey du!-- as a side note, i think you're hilarious and i hope you get into school somewhere, i'd love to have you as a classmate. i hope i can be of some help...

disclaimer: this is a long winded post, sorry!

i don't know if i can peg a particular school type as finding graduate work important. in my case, it's been schools like penn state, VCU and SUNY upstate. someone mentioned schools that are research oriented would be interested. something to chew on (read: my opinion): the schools that are heavily research oriented are typically ranked pretty high in the US News rankings. if you look at the average GPA for those schools, it is WELL above the 3.3ish you have (and to answer your other question, mine is similar). as the schools might be interested in your research, they will NOT be interested in your ug gpa and you won't be given a chance to even explain your research. at least this has been the case for me. it's frustrating.

so, if i had to do it all over again. hmmm... at the time i entered my grad degree, i wasn't positive about medicine, i was on the fence between a PhD and MD. two years later, filling out my AMCAS, i realized i could have been supplementing my ug gpa the whole time i was in grad school. so here's what i'd do. i'd go back to grad school, and on top of my grad classes, i'd take some upper div. (non-grad level) science courses that didn't count towards my MS. these classes would get dumped into post-bacc courses, which would raise your ug gpa. so you get the best of both worlds. you get the grad degree, AND you get the ug gpa boost!!

a couple of things to think about:
-would you finish your master's in time to apply again with the same MCAT?
-would you mind taking the MCAT again?
-would you be willing to put in 3 years for a degree if your research doesn't work as planned (this is what happened to me)
-are you happy doing a hard science MS? if you're not into it, you'll hate your life and the adcoms will know this when you interview

pros for MS vs. SMP:
-you will probably gain teaching experience (if you don't have some already) which is always good
-you will have STRONG letters of rec from your PI (as long as you're not a screwball)
-you will have a strong(er) understanding of things going into medical school (i now have an MS in microbiology and am thoroughly looking forward to it in med school)
-potential for publications
-if you do a MS in a field you're interested in, it might help you match for residency (the SMP won't.)

pros for SMP vs. MS (this is opinion as i have no experience with it):
-it's a one year program
-you can build connections within the school you're taking class at (and others)
-you can get a leg up on the curriculum (i think drexel will let you test out of classes if you come from the SMP program)

i don't know the difference in cost, but most MS programs will offer a stipend if you teach so it's not terribly expensive.

phew. sorry, there's so much info i hope you can find it of some use... as always if you have questions, feel free to ask.

take care and good luck!
LT2

 

[jebus]

disclaimer: this is a long winded post, sorry!
LT2

Ok, I had a really long reply typed up and then I made my computer angry and I lost it. In turn, this made me angry, but here's the gist:
Thanks. (Good luck at UCSD.) Your idea about what you would have done ("i realized i could have been supplementing my ug gpa the whole time i was in grad school.") is so good I'm going to claim it's mine. I'm sorry but I called it, please refrain from using it in the future. I don't make up the rules.
Also, thank you for your kind words. Please do not encourage my behaviour, though.
Wow, that was concise.
Seriously, thanks a lot for letting me pick your brain for a minute. And keep us updated on your certain application successes!

 

[rgerwin]

Apply DO in June. You'll get in. Don't bother with the other stuff yet.

hey future doctors, i need help.

science gpa = 3.2
overall gpa = 3.5
mcat = 8, 8, 10, Q

ec's: basic science research internship for 1 yr, clinical science research 1yr, healthcare ethics internship in hospital 1yr, community daycare volunteer 3 yrs, hospital volunteer 2 yrs, employed research assistant 3yrs (with publications, etc)

should i go for a post bacc or special masters program?

and is it late to apply to these programs?

please get back to me... thank you.

 

[jep42]

I got into the BU MA in Medical Sciences program!

I am very exciting and thank you all for your insight and help.

 

[jklasser17]

I got into the BU MA in Medical Sciences program!

I am very exciting and thank you all for your insight and help.

I'd like to be the first to extend a warm welcome to the BU MAMS program!!
Congrats!!

I am sure you will enjoy it.
If you have any questions about the program or the Boston area in general, feel free to ask!

I am currently in the program, so I guess I know a little bit about it.

 

[Doogie11]

Hey Everyone,
I have a question about my pre-med track so far and i'm hoping this forum can help. I will be graduating from UNC in december with a BA in Biology and History with a non science GPA in the area of 3.5 (history major GPA is about a 3.7-3.8) and a science GPA in the area of 2.5. My overall GPA is 3.0. I have all B's in the traditional science courses pertaining to medical school except for a C+ in general Chem II and Orgo I. I still have Orgo II,Physics I and II, and a stats class to complete my pre-reqs. I will have a considerable amount of extracurricular activities as it pertains to healthcare including some things overseas by the time i apply to medical school. My concern right not is finding the best way to show my ability to do well in the sciences, which i know i can. I seem to fall into a unique category as it pertains to post bacc programs. I have too much science courses for some and not all the pre-reqs for medical school for others. My plan was to take some science classes during the spring as a non-degree seeking student back home and then apply to a masters program. My third option is too take courses for medical school on my own and then apply for medical school. Basically, seeing my science GPA, what do you think would be the best option for me? Oo, i also was a varsity athlete in college (i dont know if that changes anything). Thanks for the help.