Post Bacc, SMP or Retake Classes

[mek89]

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Hi, I am coming up on my last year in undergrad. I will graduate with a 2.9-3.0 cumulative GPA (I've transferred so much and have so many units, I'm locked into my GPA) and a ~2.7-3.0 science GPA depending on my performance during the upcoming year.

😕Pre-Reqs:
Bio: B/C
Bio Lab: B/A
Chem: B/C
OChem: C/C
Physics: B/C
Phys Lab: B/C

I've also taken genetics (B) and biochem (B).

After graduation I plan on working at in a biotech lab (I currently have an internship at one now), studying for my MCAT for a year, and saving up for grad school/medical school applications. I want to know if I would be better off applying for an SMP after I take the MCAT (assuming I have a 28+), applying for a post bacc for entry after graduation (I would take my MCAT afterward in this case), or take classes independently through my local university or community college (I would be on my own for the first time and am not sure if I could afford university courses let alone get into one on extension due to over enrollment).

I'm entering my final year so I need to prepare myself but I am unsure of what would help me the most....

 

[ShoTyme]

I would retake classes and apply DO.

 

[yellowperil]

I would retake classes and apply DO.

👍

 

[DrMidlife]

There's no short answer to this.

You "look" like a 3.0 straight across the board, and that's not "med school material". MD school matriculants average a 3.6+ GPA, and DO school matriculants average about a 3.5+. Those with too many units to get their GPA into competitive range have to show multiple years of above average work. You aren't playing the game yet.

Focus on this issue before you take any more classes: what has to happen for you to start getting A's in hard science classes? This must be addressed before you do more schoolwork. Every grade you get, from here out, that isn't an A is a step away from med school.

I suggest that you need to show a minimum of a year of 3.7+ performance in a full load of mostly hard science before you can consider yourself a serious med school candidate. Don't get distracted by the app process for SMPs and postbacs. Don't get distracted by ECs or anything else. Tons of nothing but A's is do or die here.

If you get into an SMP, but you don't already have a pile of A's in hard science before the SMP, then an SMP would be a mistake. But you should assume you need to do an SMP after another year or so of full time undergrad at a 3.7+.

A 28 on the MCAT is not an appropriate goal for you. Against a low GPA, you have no choice but to get an above average MCAT, if you want to be taken seriously (in addition to developing substantial counterexamples to the low GPA). The average matriculant MCAT at MD schools is 31+. At DO schools it's 27+. You may not be in a good position to take the MCAT until you have another year of hard undergrad science under your belt.

The number of options for funding additional undergrad, to address low GPA, are dwindling. You may find that you simply can't fund full time study, and that you have to be highly creative.

If you don't know what a DO is, I suggest you should find out.

Find the low GPA threads here and in the postbac forum for in depth reporting from those of us who dug our own similar graves...and sometimes dug ourselves out.

Best of luck to you.

 

[235009]

SMP is for people with high MCAT scores so if you don't get 32+ i would not consider it as an option
post-bac isn't going to make enough of a dent in your gpa
retaking classes and applying DO, assuming you get 28+ MCAT, is the best option

 

[mek89]

I understand what a D.O. is and I have looked into those school until coming to an ultimate decision that M.D. is for me. For the record, a 28 is not my goal for MCATs, it is just the average minimum for entry into a SMP program. What about UQ or carribean schools? Continental U.S. is my preference but if I had to, I am open to those options.

 

[ShoTyme]

I understand what a D.O. is and I have looked into those school until coming to an ultimate decision that M.D. is for me. For the record, a 28 is not my goal for MCATs, it is just the average minimum for entry into a SMP program. What about UQ or carribean schools? Continental U.S. is my preference but if I had to, I am open to those options.

That's about as solid a financial move as selling everything you have, taking out as many loans as you can, and putting it all on a single number in roulette. Not something I'm keen on, but I always like to have the odds in my favor before stepping to the table. Vegas was built on people with differing views however.

 

[DrMidlife]

I understand what a D.O. is and I have looked into those school until coming to an ultimate decision that M.D. is for me. For the record, a 28 is not my goal for MCATs, it is just the average minimum for entry into a SMP program. What about UQ or carribean schools? Continental U.S. is my preference but if I had to, I am open to those options.

You're perfect for UQ or Carib, but they're awful for you. If you take your academic record into an offshore school, you'll do poorly, so the school won't let you take boards...but the school still gets paid, and you get to pay off about $150k for a long long time with nothing to show for it.

Sorry, there's no easy way in.

 

[TriagePreMed]

smp is for people with high mcat scores so if you don't get 32+ i would not consider it as an option
post-bac isn't going to make enough of a dent in your gpa
retaking classes and applying do, assuming you get 28+ mcat, is the best option

+1

 

[mek89]

D.O. is not for me. I want to be an oncologist and from what I've read on other forums here, there is only ONE oncology position for D.Os in the entire U.S. Oncology is what I want to do PERIOD. With that said, I DO NOT plan on applying to medical school (including UQ or carib) until I have retaken my classes and/or a supplementary program. Just to straighten things out, I created this thread to figure out the best pathway for me to enter a MD program knowing that I have to supplement my undergrad somehow. With that said, I wouldn't try to enter any medical school with my current academic record so it is NOT safe to assume that I would take these habits into medical school. The way you are describing my chances of getting into an allopathic medical school even with retaking my classes and/or supplemental program is zilch. I don't believe that. All I would like to know is in my personal situation, would it be more advisable for me to retake the courses, apply for a post bacc, and/or take an SMP for an ALLOPATHIC medical school.

I'm leaning toward retaking classes through local university extension/concurrent enrollment programs or community college (DEPENDS ON BUDGET, I will be a new grad living in an expensive city) and then possibly an SMP program.

 

[TriagePreMed]

D.O. is not for me. I want to be an oncologist and from what I've read on other forums here, there is only ONE oncology position for D.Os in the entire U.S. Oncology is what I want to do PERIOD. With that said, I DO NOT plan on applying to medical school (including UQ or carib) until I have retaken my classes and/or a supplementary program. Just to straighten things out, I created this thread to figure out the best pathway for me to enter a MD program knowing that I have to supplement my undergrad somehow. With that said, I wouldn't try to enter any medical school with my current academic record so it is NOT safe to assume that I would take these habits into medical school. The way you are describing my chances of getting into an allopathic medical school even with retaking my classes and/or supplemental program is zilch. I don't believe that. All I would like to know is in my personal situation, would it be more advisable for me to retake the courses, apply for a post bacc, and/or take an SMP for an ALLOPATHIC medical school.

I'm leaning toward retaking classes through local university extension/concurrent enrollment programs or community college (DEPENDS ON BUDGET, I will be a new grad living in an expensive city) and then possibly an SMP program.

Ummm all you have to do is an allo IM residency, which should be pretty easy to get into as an Osteopathic physician, but okay.

If MD is what you want, you will need to do post-bacc to hit at least 3.0 in both cGPA and sGPA. Then you'll need to score a 32+ on the MCAT (because lets face it, it's not just the SMP where the MCAT matters). After both those things happen, you'll need to do an SMP and have a 3.7+ average on it.

Good luck,

 

[ShoTyme]

D.O. is not for me. I want to be an oncologist and from what I've read on other forums here, there is only ONE oncology position for D.Os in the entire U.S. Oncology is what I want to do PERIOD. With that said, I DO NOT plan on applying to medical school (including UQ or carib) until I have retaken my classes and/or a supplementary program. Just to straighten things out, I created this thread to figure out the best pathway for me to enter a MD program knowing that I have to supplement my undergrad somehow. With that said, I wouldn't try to enter any medical school with my current academic record so it is NOT safe to assume that I would take these habits into medical school. The way you are describing my chances of getting into an allopathic medical school even with retaking my classes and/or supplemental program is zilch. I don't believe that. All I would like to know is in my personal situation, would it be more advisable for me to retake the courses, apply for a post bacc, and/or take an SMP for an ALLOPATHIC medical school.

I'm leaning toward retaking classes through local university extension/concurrent enrollment programs or community college (DEPENDS ON BUDGET, I will be a new grad living in an expensive city) and then possibly an SMP program.

Nothing is impossible.

http://www.examiner.com/article/veg...seven-consecutive-numbers-3-billion-to-1-odds

 

[DrMidlife]

D.O. is not for me. I want to be an oncologist and from what I've read on other forums here, there is only ONE oncology position for D.Os in the entire U.S. Oncology is what I want to do PERIOD.

Problem #1 here is that you're not in med school yet, but you're dead set on one specialty. This indicates that you're either not seeking, and/or not listening to, the advice of those who have gone before you.

Problem #2 is that you don't understand how DOs match into residencies. "MD" (ACGME) residencies and fellowships take plenty of DOs. Of note, the percentage of DOs that match ACGME residencies & fellowships is quite a bit higher than the percentage of US citizens who study offshore.

All I would like to know is in my personal situation, would it be more advisable for me to retake the courses, apply for a post bacc, and/or take an SMP for an ALLOPATHIC medical school.

As I said before, you need to do all three.

I am skeptical that you are getting any good advice in real life. I suggest you should be looking for real people who can confirm/deny what you're being told in this thread. People who work in med school admissions can confirm/deny what we're telling you about how far you are from admissibility. People who work in oncology can confirm/deny whether DOs have a harder time becoming oncologists than MDs or IMGs. People who are DOs can confirm/deny whether being a DO is any different from being an MD. People in financial aid offices can confirm/deny whether you have any reasonable funding choices for your comeback effort.

Of particular note: The average premed adviser, physician, faculty member, med student and/or parent has no clue what it means to try to get into med school with a low GPA. By contrast, this forum and the postbac forum are absolutely packed with traffic from low GPA students who got into med school (and some who chose to walk away). I seriously doubt there's a richer source of low GPA comeback info than SDN.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

For the record, a 28 is not my goal for MCATs, it is just the average minimum for entry into a SMP program.

BTW, you have no freedom to be average or minimum on a GPA comeback. Don't pay attention to minimums - you can't be anywhere near them. Don't pay any attention to deadlines - you need to be early.

 

[Mjolner]

BTW, you have no freedom to be average or minimum on a GPA comeback. Don't pay attention to minimums - you can't be anywhere near them. Don't pay any attention to deadlines - you need to be early.

This.

 

[kaylasdf123]

I just want to echo what DrMidLife is saying and that advice is spot on. I had similar science grades during my undergraduate years but that was 5+ years ago and I hadn't taken as many science classes as the OG poster had. I worked my butt of during my post-bacc years these last 2 years to virtually erase those terrible grades from college. My post-bacc grades are very strong at a 3.9 BUT I just had an interview at my first choice school through a linkage program and the very first question I was asked was...What happened in college? Explain your undergraduate science grades. Those grades never go away and so you have to prove yourself in post-bacc and you HAVE to get A's. It's not an option. If you can't get mostly if not all A's in a post-bacc...your chances definitely decrease. Be prepared to work. Also be prepared to explain your undergraduate grades. You will be asked about them no matter how well you do later on.

Also, the MCAT is a beast. If you are getting B/C's in basic science courses it may mean that you do not have a firm grasp of the material and therefore studying for the MCAT may prove to be a challenge. Again, be prepared to work your face off. I tend to "trust" the advice on the non-trad board in SDN b/c people here are older and "wiser" for the most part. No one is trying to discourage you from med school or becoming a doctor. I think people are just trying to give you a realistic picture of what your next few years will be like. They will be hard and you have to be prepared for that. It's easy to say you will get A's and work hard but it's incredibly challenging to devote the next few years of your life to actually getting A's and working hard.

If you're ready to put in the work...Rock on! You can totally do it! I wish you the absolute best of luck! Surround yourself with supportive people and awesome mentors and you can totally do it.

 

[mspeedwagon]

This has got to be the most wrong statement I have ever read on SDN. I worked at Stanford oncology... Stanford University alone accepts several DOs into their fellowship each year. There are probably over a dozen DOs at Stanford oncology alone.

I has also worked at Dana-Farber and there are a lot of DOs in oncology there. Same at MSK and MD Anderson. I travel to cancer centers throughout the nation and have yet to be at one without at least one DO (most major ones have several). Overall, there are thousands of DOs that are oncologists (do a google search).

Your only way into an MD program is a high MCAT and a post-bac (or SMP).

PS - Also, as an FYI... US Oncology is an organization of sites (http://www.usoncology.com/network/AboutUs). It's not all the oncology centers in the US. Having worked with US Oncology a lot for Pfizer, I wouldn't aim to make a career there. Better to go to a more prestigious cancer center.

D.O. is not for me. I want to be an oncologist and from what I've read on other forums here, there is only ONE oncology position for D.Os in the entire U.S. Oncology is what I want to do PERIOD.

 

[mek89]

I just want to echo what DrMidLife is saying and that advice is spot on. I had similar science grades during my undergraduate years but that was 5+ years ago and I hadn't taken as many science classes as the OG poster had. I worked my butt of during my post-bacc years these last 2 years to virtually erase those terrible grades from college. My post-bacc grades are very strong at a 3.9 BUT I just had an interview at my first choice school through a linkage program and the very first question I was asked was...What happened in college? Explain your undergraduate science grades. Those grades never go away and so you have to prove yourself in post-bacc and you HAVE to get A's. It's not an option. If you can't get mostly if not all A's in a post-bacc...your chances definitely decrease. Be prepared to work. Also be prepared to explain your undergraduate grades. You will be asked about them no matter how well you do later on.

Also, the MCAT is a beast. If you are getting B/C's in basic science courses it may mean that you do not have a firm grasp of the material and therefore studying for the MCAT may prove to be a challenge. Again, be prepared to work your face off. I tend to "trust" the advice on the non-trad board in SDN b/c people here are older and "wiser" for the most part. No one is trying to discourage you from med school or becoming a doctor. I think people are just trying to give you a realistic picture of what your next few years will be like. They will be hard and you have to be prepared for that. It's easy to say you will get A's and work hard but it's incredibly challenging to devote the next few years of your life to actually getting A's and working hard.

If you're ready to put in the work...Rock on! You can totally do it! I wish you the absolute best of luck! Surround yourself with supportive people and awesome mentors and you can totally do it.

Thank you. You have given the most helpful, non-bashing, non judgemental advice than anyone else on this thread. Your experience makes you much more qualified to give advice in this situation and that people who have taken the traditional route are limited pertaining to situations such as this.