Post-bacc vs Masters?

Started by Sumbody1245
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Sumbody1245

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7+ Year Member
^Title, my GPA is 2.7, It'll be a long road to get it to 3.0 let alone a competitive score, what do you guys recommend?

Also note that this semester I'm going to set aside to study the MCAT, so if I take a masters program I think my MCAT will expire by then, right?

Thanks beforehand!
 
If you do well on the MCAT you should apply to one of the SMP's (special masters programs) that have a linkage to their med schools. There are both MD and DO schools that offer high linkage and if you do your research you can find the ones that offer guaranteed acceptance/interview if you maintain a minimum GPA throughout the program. I think that with a 25+ you should be able to get into one of those SMP's, even with your 2.7 GPA.

I chose to do a non-SMP, one year masters program with my 3.0/27. If I wasn't accepted this year, I think I would have been better off in an SMP with linkage or in a post-bacc program that added to my undergraduate GPA. Reason being that, although a masters degree is great, graduate GPA will not count towards your undergrad GPA.

I took my MCAT in Late 2012 and used it for this cycle (if that gives you any perspective.) Like emilym said, most will take 2-3 year old MCATs.
 
Ogmora said:
If you do well on the MCAT you should apply to one of the SMP's (special masters programs) that have a linkage to their med schools. There are both MD and DO schools that offer high linkage and if you do your research you can find the ones that offer guaranteed acceptance/interview if you maintain a minimum GPA throughout the program. I think that with a 25+ you should be able to get into one of those SMP's, even with your 2.7 GPA.

I chose to do a non-SMP, one year masters program with my 3.0/27. If I wasn't accepted this year, I think I would have been better off in an SMP with linkage or in a post-bacc program that added to my undergraduate GPA. Reason being that, although a masters degree is great, graduate GPA will not count towards your undergrad GPA.

I took my MCAT in Late 2012 and used it for this cycle (if that gives you any perspective.) Like emilym said, most will take 2-3 year old MCATs.
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What was your undergrad GPA? I'm pretty sure your grad GPA counts for something, if not flat out supplementing your undergrad GPA, but your grad GPA wasn't that spectacular as well, did you have insane EC's?

And for EC's should I work part-time as a patient escort or something or just volunteer/ shadow this semester?
 
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Undergrad was 3.0. Grad so far is 3.6. I accumulated a lot of hours (1000+) as an EMT and worked clinical full-time in another setting for a year. Other than that, my EC's are pretty average (pre-med clubs, volunteer events, shadowing MD and DO, etc.)

The schools I interviewed at this cycle didn't know I was in the masters program. So I think the only reasons I may have gotten love was because of my LoR's, my clinical and EMT work, or my decent grades in Orgo I and II.

For the grad vs. undergrad GPA, the reason it's not viewed on a similar level is because graduate work is not standardized. Bio I and II, Chem I and II, Orgo I and II, etc. are nearly all the same courses and cover the same material regardless of what undergrad institution you attend. This allows admissions officers to compare each applicant fairly. Many grad schools/programs inflate grades and the classes usually don't cover the same material, thus a masters degree at one school can be a worlds apart from another. That being said, should you choose to go to a regular masters program (non-SMP), it's best if you attend a program that has a reputation for putting the majority of its graduates into medical/professional schools.

Also, when you fill out the application, be it AMCAS or AACOMAS, your grad GPA will be separate from your undergrad GPA for the reasons I stated above. Each school has a different way of calculating your grade based on what the app service gives them, but most will look at undergrad GPA first and then calculate grad gpa to a lesser extent. So although the masters GPA will not replace the undergrad GPA, it will give you an edge in demonstrating your preparedness for med school (so long as it's in a reputable program and you do well) My advice is to contact admissions offices at the schools that you want to attend and ask how they calculate graduate GPA. More often than not, they'll let you know and that way, you can gauge your decision based on what they prefer. Theres a thread on sdn that talks about which schools are friendly towards students with masters degrees, if you search around a bit you could probably find it, they started a small list of grad-friendly schools and how they calculate the gpas.

Unfortunately, I did all my research on this after I started my graduate program. This is why I said I would have been better off doing a real SMP (with linkage) or a post-bacc instead of the masters I'm in...the 3.0 undergrad GPA gets me screened out from a lot of schools and bringing it up would definitely help me out if I had to apply again. So ultimately, it's not that grad GPA doesn't count for anything, because it definitely does, it's just that undergrad counts for much more. That being said, having a 2.7 undergrad GPA and a 3.7 grad GPA (with a good mcat) will definitely get you in somewhere...however an upward trending 3.4 undergrad GPA (or even higher if you utilize retakes and apply DO) with the same MCAT may do just as much for you, if not more.

Fit in what you can for volunteering (clinical is always a plus, but doing something you're passionate about is even better) and definitely shadow a lot, but don't let the time you commit to work/EC's impinge on the time you spend studying for the mcat. It's too bad that this is how it goes, but more often a high mcat (34+) with the bare minimum EC's will be interviewed sooner than a mediocre mcat (~24) whose life is dedicated to volunteering.
 
Go for a post bacc with linkage! If your a URM there are plenty programs for you to choose from. If not, you still have quite a few options. Goodluck!
 
You'll probably have to check out the actual post-bacc pages themselves. There aren't many programs that have a true linkage - i.e. if you do well you are automatically accepted into the med school. Most programs, if they have a relationship with a med school, offer the guarantee of an interview assuming that you meet certain requirements (such as a minimum GPA in the program, a minimum MCAT score, or both). And then there are many programs that don't have relationships with med schools at all. The post-bacc forum on SDN has a lot of good info but it's showing it's age because they were created a few years ago and the people who compiled those lists are extremely busy in med school/residency etc.

You'll have to do the gruntwork yourself and the AAMC link provided above is a great start. Go to the specific pages and read the fine print. Check the dates on those pages because I noticed that some of the programs haven't updated their websites in a while.

One thing to consider: the terminology may be a bit confusing. there are post-bacc programs that will count as undergraduate credit and improve your undergraduate GPA. There are special masters programs (SMP) that many people think of as post-bacc programs that offer you a masters degree but do nothing to improve your undergraduate GPA (if that's what you need). And then there are DIY post-baccs where you simply take classes at a local school to knock out your prereqs, improve your GPA, etc.

I'm doing the DIY post-bacc right now through a CC, but will also likely be doing a SMP this fall. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. Take care.
 
Serious question: which programs offer linkages? It seems like there are increasingly fewer programs that actually do this. Seems like many used to do them, but its not as common. And with a 2.7 it'll be extremely hard to get into any that actually do this (those have pretty steep requirements from my research). If you could offer more info, i'd be grateful--i am in a similarly crappy situation. Thanks!
 
Check out KCUMB, LECOM, Touro CA & NY, Midwestern AZ & IL. Those are a few that are DO-linked that offer interviews based on certain criteria met while in the program.
 
yanks26dmb said:
Anyone know where I can find a list of post-bacc programs with linkages (to both MD and DO)?
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Theres no structured post-bacc in hell that will allow someone with a 2.7 GPA.

So for sure post-bacc would be faster/better than a masters for getting into med school?

And I guess I have to lock in on DO if I sign up to retake classes, since retaking classes will just look stupid for Dent or MD.
 
You can always do a self-paced do it yourself post-bacc. Maybe start with re-taking any F, D, C coursework if you already have the pre-reqs done. You can do these at a CC to make it cheaper
 
Sumbody1245 said:
Theres no structured post-bacc in hell that will allow someone with a 2.7 GPA.

So for sure post-bacc would be faster/better than a masters for getting into med school?

And I guess I have to lock in on DO if I sign up to retake classes, since retaking classes will just look stupid for Dent or MD.
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A good MCAT will outweigh the 2.7 GPA for most of the programs. And if you read the admissions criteria for most of the programs, they'll say something along the lines of "minimum competitive GPA needed is 3.0. Any applicant with <3.0 GPA will be considered only if..." I wouldn't count you out entirely for any of the post-baccs, especially if you churn out a great MCAT.

I also wouldn't say it looks stupid for Dent or MD, granted retakes will just help you much, much more for DO than they will for Dent or MD, but some MD schools will only look at the last 60 credits completed and calculate your GPA from there.

And yes, in your situation post-bacc would be better than a masters for getting into med school. It may not be faster though. That all depends on how many courses you take and retake.

A good plan would be to do a year of post-bacc retakes, then apply to an SMP or Masters program for the year you plan on applying to med school. This will give you another degree plus extra coursework in case you need to reapply again.
 
look into the MD/DO schools that have SMP's offered by the school itself, like TCOM and LECOM. The SMP idea is really great, especially if you want to go to an MD granting institution. Note that Some of the SMP programs also require Biochem and MCAT.

HOWEVER, you will save quite a bit of money with the "DIY post-bacc" idea that abn632 is talking about. I utilized the same thing (grade replacement) through a state school (that isn't known for academics), and I've been accepted to several DO schools. My insight is simple: if you are alright with going to a DO school, retake your lowest science (and non-science) grades for 1 year (summer 1&2, Fall, Spring) and study for your MCAT in the slowest of your semesters. You will be surprised how fast your GPA can rise with replacements. Sit down for a few minutes and calculate how much retaking just a few classes can help. I started in a very similar situation to yours.

Good Luck
 
kp11 said:
look into the MD/DO schools that have SMP's offered by the school itself, like TCOM and LECOM. The SMP idea is really great, especially if you want to go to an MD granting institution. Note that Some of the SMP programs also require Biochem and MCAT.

HOWEVER, you will save quite a bit of money with the "DIY post-bacc" idea that abn632 is talking about. I utilized the same thing (grade replacement) through a state school (that isn't known for academics), and I've been accepted to several DO schools. My insight is simple: if you are alright with going to a DO school, retake your lowest science (and non-science) grades for 1 year (summer 1&2, Fall, Spring) and study for your MCAT in the slowest of your semesters. You will be surprised how fast your GPA can rise with replacements. Sit down for a few minutes and calculate how much retaking just a few classes can help. I started in a very similar situation to yours.

Good Luck
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Does it matter if I retake classes in a Community College to save money? Thanks.
 
Sumbody1245 said:
Does it matter if I retake classes in a Community College to save money? Thanks.
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That is something that I do not have the answer to. If you can make a compelling enough argument, then more power to you. I traveled an extra 45 minutes to go to a state school because I worried CC courses might appear that I couldn't make competitive grades. This may just be my paranoia.

To add to the list I said earlier, LMU-DCOM has an affiliated SMP that has a mission statement the last time I check (2 years ago) that said 2.7 GPA or better.
 
Sumbody1245 said:
Does it matter if I retake classes in a Community College to save money? Thanks.
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If it were me...only if I had no other choice would I go to a CC. Like kp11 said, you want to make sure you can demonstrate aptitude in higher level courses that are identical to the ones you are previously took. I don't have much experience with CC coursework and its implications on admissions, but I think going to state school is a safer bet. If cost is an issue, theres a recent thread about paying for a post-bacc on the Pre-DO forum. General consensus says to start a second major in order to get the financial aid. If you don't want to take out loans and would rather pay out of pocket for the CC, just know the money you are saving may not have the same return as paying for state school courses would.
 
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