Post Baccalaureate: Classes and Advice

[QuentinT88]

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[DrMidlife]

The comparison of public/private/prestige of your school is a relatively minor detail after GPA & MCAT and course loads are evaluated.

You haven't seen the hard material yet, and biopsych is pure fluff, so don't get cocky about that 97. You have a really light class load and you're still on the intro material. In a structured postbac you'd be taking a full load of hard classes.

Also you'll want to make sure you're taking the premed chem series. It sounds like you might be in the "chem for liberal arts majors" version.

I killed gen chem and then got killed by ochem. It's not all the same. Usually people get killed in physics and ochem.

If you're taking biopsych instead of a real prereq because you couldn't get registration priority, that is an actual problem with your DIY. Changing schools so you can get the classes you need and get done in a reasonable amount of time would be rational.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DocWinter]

... post bacc programs at UPenn, Harvard Extension School, Northwestern, UVA, Drexel, American University, and Temple University to name a few..
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However, here is my issue. The classes here are easy. Way easier then I expected. Easy in the sense that if you study what the teacher teaches in class, it is impossible not to do well. I took my first Chem test last week and I got a 97. I took my first BioPsych class last week and got a 99. First lab assignment was an A also. The class average on these exams was around a 75. I'm noticing a huge difference in the quality of students as well. Obviously going to a top 20 school for undergrad attracts very top students, and the teaching seemed to reflect this. In my college, we weren't just spoon fed the material and just tested on multiple choice exams. We were challenged. I took Intro to Chemistry at my undergrad. Now im taking Principles of Chem at the state school. In all honesty, the Intro to Chem class that I took as a Sophomore was much harder than this Principles Chem class so far, and I got an A in that class. The questions were formatted to challenge us to know the material and work intricate problems, not just to regurgitate information taught in class.

Just to clarify, I am not some elitist. I'm not trying to come across as pretentious or act like I am better then any one else. I'm not trying to make this into a top school vs state school thread either. Those are super annoying on this site. But I wanted to know if other people have experienced this as well. I am all for getting great post bacc grades. But I also worry that I might not be getting challenged enough or prepared for the MCAT/upper level courses.

I also wonder how Adcoms will REALISTICALLY evaluate my science classes at my state school post bacc versus my top undergrad. I know everyone says that all they care about is doing well, but it makes me think that GPA is such an arbitrary stat that should not hold as much weight. I know that my sgpa and overall gpa will be MUCH higher after the post bacc, I just worry that this will in some strange way hurt me, especially since I am admitting that it is not as rigorous as I had imagined. It makes me realize why everyone says the MCAT is the great equalizer, and that a great MCAT score can cancel out and average gpa/below average gpa.
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Don't you just hate those facebook posts that say "Anyone know of a good cafe on the French riviera?", or "Where should I go to have the oil changed in my Ferrari? It's the soupdelux platinum model, so I want to take care of it.."

It gets tougher OP. If you took an Intro course in any subject, I'm not suprised that you're aceing the 1st four chapters of the 101 class. See Midlifes post.

 

[ChE04]

Sorry to hear you're so much smarter than everyone at your new school, but it's not going to be an issue... I think you'll find that most people that make it into med school don't find the entry level pre-reqs that difficult, either; but I will say that sometimes you have to challenge yourself rather than rely on others to do it for you. You are at the very beginning of a long road, and it does get harder the further you move along it, so for now just enjoy being able to effortlessly ace all of your classes.

 

[Deadlifts]

Sounds like you're taking the wrong chemistry course. Principles of Chemistry sounds like a 100 level non-science major course.

BioPsych isn't even a prereq.

 

[QuentinT88]

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[QuentinT88]

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[DocWinter]

It won't hurt you in adcoms eyes.

The 1st lab and the 1st grade in gen chem is no indication of the next 2 years of your schedule, especially for someone who already holds a degree (ie knows how to study) and took courses to prepare.

Maybe you'll be cool all the way through the open water. Some are. Many more aren't as cool. I remember how 2/3s of the class got an A in our 1st Orgo 1 exam, going over configurations and learning the latin numeration. It leveled out to a C+ averge pretty fast into chapters 5&6 once you hit E1, E2, etc...

 

[SN12357]

Sigh. I know state school vs. highly ranked private institutions is everyone's favorite fight on this board, but it doesn't actually have much to do with the OP's question. I took my post-bacc courses at two different 4-year private universities. At one the courses were rigorous. At the other they were a complete joke. Some schools care about the quality of their science classes. Some don't.

OP, the rigor of the course is unknown and doesn't matter to admissions committees as long as you're at a 4-year institution. You may have to hustle more when it comes time to study for the MCAT if your courses don't prepare you well, though. Just be aware of that. Otherwise enjoy the easy ride. If you are smart and self-motivated you can learn what you need to know outside of class.

What are your thoughts on taking OChem 1, Bio 2, and Physics 1 in the same semester? I want to try and be done by summer 2015 with my classes. Anyone have any adivce on this?

If you're a full time student it should be fine. I'd only caution against it if you have lots of other commitments.

 

[DrMidlife]

fyi my response has stuff you probably ought to take more seriously.

also fyi if you're going to take offense at a "don't get cocky" for getting a 97 on your first test in a repeated class then just ask your mom for advice instead of sdn.

 

[QuentinT88]

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[ChE04]

You shouldn't think of your basic science classes as preparation for the MCAT, per se, but simply as a foundation for you to build on. As long as you are learning the concepts and connecting things in your head as you study, it shouldn't matter how rigorous your exams are. As I said in my previous post, there is nothing stopping you from challenging yourself beyond what the professors expect of you in class if you feel it's necessary.

FYI, something to think about: you may be disappointed in the MCAT review courses, as most are simply a cursory review of the concepts in each subject for those who need to brush up on the basics. Preparing for the MCAT is purposefully largely self-driven.

 

[ChE04]

You come across as perceiving my comment arrogant, thus your comment not to "be cocky". Especially after I told you that it is an honest assessment of my experience/ observations thus far.

I think the confusion here is that instead of saying "my state school is much easier than I expected, I'm afraid I'm not being challenged enough, will this matter for MCAT/admission purposes" you typed an entire paragraph about it while also stating that the caliber of your new peers is much lower to boot. Regardless, I think you got your answer several times: that it does not matter.

 

[QuentinT88]

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[WillburCobb]

Just my $0.02, but having been a psych major and neuroscience minor, I don't think biopsych will really be all that helpful for the psych section of the upcoming MCAT. https://www.aamc.org/students/download/266006/data/2015previewguide.pdf
The contet listed definitely will not be covered in just one psych class (especially intro to psych). HOWEVER, in looking at the practice questions, they rely very heavily on comprehension and critical analysis, so its essentially just a subject specific version of the VR section (i.e., you don't need much of a background in the material, you just need to be able to comprehend and apply what's presented to you in the passages). If you were to take a psych class that may potentially help with this portion of the MCAT, I'd recommend a cognitive psych and/or social psych class, but this definitely is not neccesary.

 

[Quik]

My apologies for the confusion. Again, never intended it to be top school vs state school debate. Just providing an honest assessment. That doesn't make me cocky or arrogant.

It doesn't, but your tone does. Of your 17 posts, I've read 4-5 where you suggest condescendingly that someone work on their analysis, reading comprehension, or ask hypothetical questions to us that seem so obvious to you. It shows a pattern of elitism, entitlement, and a generally smug nature that isn't well received in this part of SDN; it might fit in much better elsewhere, possibly your top 20 undergrad.

To familiarize this place better for you, and hopefully help you gain very valuable advice from the wealth of information that members like Dr. Midlife have worked tirelessly over years to obtain, this place is like a community. We are a bunch of non-traditional future doctors in different places of our path climbing toward the same goal. We encourage each other, we help each other, we advise the newbies who just saw the light and are jumping in. Anonymity of the internet is not an excuse to belittle others; it doesn't bode well with the general mantra, and you never know, should your anonymity be broken you just might insult the person who's on your interview panel. Finally, arrogance is a like a disease; you may not know you have it, but through careful examination, others can see it. This is something the admissions process is very good at finding out about a person. My last piece of advice, I'd suggest you work very hard toward humility. It can do great things for you and your future career as a doctor.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Your grades are all that matter. Period. But I know about the phenomenon you are describing here. It doesn't matter and no one cares. Your problem is a not a tough one. Coast through and enjoy the GPA repair for relatively little effort. You can study for the MCAT on your own with a degree from a strong university.

I went to a top 2 (or THE top, depending who you ask) university for undergrad in another Western country. Then, I moved to New York and went to a normal 4-year (but not a state school). It was night and day too. But guess what?

The guy who went to that "easier" school in NY got into Columbia med school without breaking a sweat.

What happened to me? I struggled in the tough uni, killing my GPA. Now I'm doing a DIY post-back for GPA repair, and it's been taking years.

I wish I had not gone to such a rigorous university. But I learned how to think better there. That might help for the MCAT.

Do I feel smart? No, quite the opposite. I wish I had the foresight to attend the easiest university possible and enrich myself by auditing courses at higher end universities.

I could have graduated from the top uni and it would have been a good name on my resume. But I'm glad someone older than me guided me to LEAVE and transfer to an American university. Otherwise my situation would be far worse today.

 

[QuentinT88]

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[QuentinT88]

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[QuentinT88]

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[DrMidlife]

Dr. Midlife, if you actually read all of what I was saying (instead of bashing me).

Isn't it interesting that you think I was bashing you. What else could it be?

That wasn't bashing. This is bashing: isn't it interesting that you think your post was interesting enough for people to study it?

 

[QuentinT88]

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[DrCharlemagne]

How ironic. Here's some advice. If your not going to provide sound advice without bias, or be a jack-a** for people's honest questions/concerns, then don't waste your time responding.

*you're

No one likes you for bashing Dr. Midlife, so stop wasting your time trying to smack the medical student down. If everything is so damned easy, use your top 20 education to figure out a way to challenge yourself (or you could challenge yourself to take the tone-trolling seriously and work on your written voice).

And if you've seen the material before, it is a re-take. It's not like they re-write the rules of Gen-Chem every four years.

 

[QuentinT88]

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[QuentinT88]

Anyways....

Is any one else here preparing for the 2015 MCAT?

 

[petyr_baelish]

I appreciate your honesty. It's not like I am calling my state school terrible. As long as you master the basics, that is all that really matters in the end. And I guess a lot of it is more individually driven then where exactly you go to school.

Its funny b/c I have a two friends who graduated from my undergrad with low GPAs due to the rigor. Even though they got really good MCAT scores (33 and 35+) they ended up going to the Caribbean MD. Nothing against the Caribbean Med schools, but that was not their first choice. Upon telling them my decision to pursue medicine and attended a state school, they echoed exactly what you said.

I guess for me, my only apprehension this entire time was the preparation. I want to make sure that I do everything possible to do my best and succeed going forward. So I guess although the state school won't be as rigorous, it won't hurt me as long as I stay driven.

If you don't mind me asking, how much longer do you have in you Post Bacc classes?

I have O-Chem II left. I am cureently studying for the 2014 MCAT. I might throw in microbiology and biochemistry because I was not a science major.

I think your concern about not learning enough to do well on the MCAT is valid. However it is two steps ahead. Like Isaid before, only your grades matter, not the institution. Your alternative is to find a better school and take courses there, but the curve could be harsher. It's a gamble.

The MCAT requires hard work regardless of your background. If you already know how to think critically you can probably teach yourself the missing content, if any. The good news is that basic science is so widely taught that there are enough resources to use to fill any of the hypothetical gaps.

 

[QuentinT88]

Just my $0.02, but having been a psych major and neuroscience minor, I don't think biopsych will really be all that helpful for the psych section of the upcoming MCAT. https://www.aamc.org/students/download/266006/data/2015previewguide.pdf
The contet listed definitely will not be covered in just one psych class (especially intro to psych). HOWEVER, in looking at the practice questions, they rely very heavily on comprehension and critical analysis, so its essentially just a subject specific version of the VR section (i.e., you don't need much of a background in the material, you just need to be able to comprehend and apply what's presented to you in the passages). If you were to take a psych class that may potentially help with this portion of the MCAT, I'd recommend a cognitive psych and/or social psych class, but this definitely is not neccesary.

WillburCobb, thanks for posting that link. But check out Content Category 1C of the 2015 MCAT. I am noticing that a good amount of these concepts are being covered in Biological Psychology already. While I agree that the depth of the material alone in BioPsych might not be sufficient for the psych section, it is still a good foundation to learn the materiel. Especially before taking Principles of Biology I and II, which will then delve into deeper detail of topics such as Genetic Variability, Evolution, Mendelian Concepts, etc.

 

[QuentinT88]

I have O-Chem II left. I am cureently studying for the 2014 MCAT. I might throw in microbiology and biochemistry because I was not a science major.

I think your concern about not learning enough to do well on the MCAT is valid. However it is two steps ahead. Like Isaid before, only your grades matter, not the institution. Your alternative is to find a better school and take courses there, but the curve could be harsher. It's a gamble.

The MCAT requires hard work regardless of your background. If you already know how to think critically you can probably teach yourself the missing content, if any. The good news is that basic science is so widely taught that there are enough resources to use to fill any of the hypothetical gaps.

I agree that not matter what, hard work will prevail. I think I will end up staying at my state school. Mainly b/c I already signed my lease until Dec 2014, and because I agree with everyone's advice thus far. The MCAT will definitely be my major focus, along with continuing to do well in the post bacc. I'm aiming to keep track of the concepts as I go, and delve deeper into the core MCAT 2015 concepts as I progress along. Your lucky your taking the 2014 version, I'm jealous hah. But I don't think the 2015 should be that much harder than the old MCAT. (But then again, who knows since it has not be administered yet.)

 

[Being]

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[WillburCobb]

Try not to let it go to your head...

I'm thinking it's too late for that...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ConsultantMD]

OP, I'm actually in a similar boat. I went to a top ranked whatever school for undergrad several years ago and decided to pursue medicine and leave my job last year. I am doing an informal post-bacc at my state school, primarily out of costs and also because it seemed unnecessary to do formal post bacc given my circumstance. Yes, my first semester back was challenging mainly because I hadn't truly studied in years, but it was underwhelming in terms of the difficulty. I do think you are a little cocky, I was simply excited to get good grades, not ungrateful.

At my undergrad, I prided my grades based on the fact that the average was a B- or lower. However, when getting grades back in these classes at my post bacc school, the average grades are even lower at C/C-'s. The key difference is that there is a certain contingent (about 20-25%) of the class that truly does not care at all and gets 50% or below, severely bringing down the average. So I realized that saying that we had B- averages was all relative. As well, the exams/expectations for papers/etc. were not as high, but I think the key difference is that you do go to school with people that absolutely do not try. Not in the same sense that you "failed" that test, like I probably used to say as an undergrad to mean that I got a B, but there are people that don't show up, don't study, and it shows. I've talked to a couple professors about this observation and they said it always happens because people have extenuating circumstances, or simply don't try very hard.

Don't pat yourself on the back too hard for getting good grades... that's what you're supposed to do. Also don't laugh at people that ended up at the Caribbean because it might be your fate one day!

 

[QuentinT88]

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[QuentinT88]

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[DrCharlemagne]

Lol. Lastly, why does every new person who posts on this thread take everything I am saying out of context? I get its easy to do this over an internet forum, but come on. Give it a rest people!

You said you would be more "cognitive" of your tone before, so perhaps the problem isn't everyone else. It might actually be you're coming across as an arrogant jerk. You should be more cognizant of how you come across in writing, seeing as the bulk of your application is written.

 

[QuentinT88]

You said you would be more "cognitive" of your tone before, so perhaps the problem isn't everyone else. It might actually be you're coming across as an arrogant jerk. You should be more cognizant of how you come across in writing, seeing as the bulk of your application is written.

"I appreciate your honesty. It's not like I am calling my state school terrible. As long as you master the basics, that is all that really matters in the end. And I guess a lot of it is more individually driven then where exactly you go to school.

Its funny b/c I have a two friends who graduated from my undergrad with low GPAs due to the rigor. Even though they got really good MCAT scores (33 and 35+) they ended up going to the Caribbean MD. Nothing against the Caribbean Med schools, but that was not their first choice. Upon telling them my decision to pursue medicine and attended a state school, they echoed exactly what you said.

I guess for me, my only apprehension this entire time was the preparation. I want to make sure that I do everything possible to do my best and succeed going forward. So I guess although the state school won't be as rigorous, it won't hurt me as long as I stay driven.

If you don't mind me asking, how much longer do you have in you Post Bacc classes?"



Please explain to me where in this post that I came across as an arrogant jerk? Please, enlighten me DrCharlemagne

 

[DrCharlemagne]

You're the one with the Top 20 education. You figure it out.

 

[QuentinT88]

So.... your response is turn to sarcasm because you really don't have a point. That's cute.

 

[ObLaDi]

As the old saying goes, if one person calls you a horse’s ass you might ignore it. If two people call you a horse’s ass maybe you should take a closer look. And if a third person calls you a horse’s ass, it’s time to buy a saddle.

 

[QuentinT88]

Lol. No thanks, I'll pass

 

[hopefloatsss]

Lol. No thanks, I'll pass

I actually google searched this because I was wondering the same thing about my current A in a class I'm taking at my state school, vs. what I did as an undergrad. ...but man, y'all ganging up and hating on the poster much? He legit had a question and a lot of you guys start attacking him. I thought his post sounded fine, very humble. For me personally - it sounds like some of you guys are just really defensive and on the attack...which is really not what I'd like to see on SDN. But hey, we can all agree to disagree.

Anyway, poster - thanks for posting this! Good ideas in this thread.