Post Doc already? Yes. :)

[psychfi]

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Starting to get my list of sites together and I realized I don’t have that many to apply to as I did for internship. What is a good number of post doc sites to consider? And are/did you apply for jobs at the same time?

Side note: I am looking for VA positions.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think I applied to....around 10? That was more than enough in my case, and likely so in most other cases.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Around 6-8 I think. Did not apply to jobs until the second half of postdoc.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

much less than when applying for internship, for sure.

 

[Gully376]

I applied to 6 and that was more than enough. And I am starting a fulltime job at my postdoc in a month. I think if you do a good job postdocs will generally offer you a job if one is available. At the least most places have enough connections that they can get you a full-time job in the same geographical area that you do your postdoc in.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

6. did not want to put myself in the same situation having to interview at a billion places. Plus, even when applying to competitive spots, it still felt like more of a buyers market (at least much more than the internship interviews, mind you this was at the climax of the crisis).

 

[WisNeuro]

8, although I might apply to a couple more nowadays as neuro is becoming more competitive.

6. did not want to put myself in the same situation having to interview at a billion places. Plus, even when applying to competitive spots, it still felt like more of a buyers market (at least much more than the internship interviews, mind you this was at the climax of the crisis).

You forgot to use air quotes around "crisis" as it never really existed.

 

[foreverbull]

Starting to get my list of sites together and I realized I don’t have that many to apply to as I did for internship. What is a good number of post doc sites to consider? And are/did you apply for jobs at the same time?

Side note: I am looking for VA positions.

Are you applying in highly competitive areas? This will affect how many sites you should apply to.

EDIT: I only applied to one VA site (their online app asked a screening question about if I had primary care experience and I’m pretty sure they tossed my app after I said no), and 7 non-VA sites. I mistakenly assumed that even in an extremely competitive area with restricted geographical range and zero connections/familiarity with the sites, and only one spot open at each site, 8 apps was plenty. It wasn’t.

My suggestion is to get a sense of how competitive those sites you’re applying to are (how restrictive is your geographical range, how saturated is the area with postdoc applicants, how many slots are available st each site, do sites in your specialty tend to value networking/word-of-mouth?) then pick a number based on those factors, anywhere from 8-14. Just like internship, apply to a mix of less competitive places and more competitive places, widening your geographical range as needed if you’re applying in a competitive area.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I applied to 9 maybe? 7ish in the neuro match and 2 outside of it. I ended up getting offers from both outside programs, and I chose one of them. I only traveled to INS, which saved me a bunch of money.

 

[iliketohelppeople]

I applied to a few VA sites in a couple of different specialties (~ 7). Got an offer but declined for personal reasons. There were some terrific post-docs (including VAs) leftover after the post-doc 'match' day. I applied to several more VAs and got a good gig (and got interviews at all of the ones I applied to). As others have said, it may depend upon your specific focus within the VA (e.g., Health seems quite full, SMI not so much) and desired geographic location (and how important this is). Also critical to evaluate your competitiveness for your given focus.

 

[CatsFan]

A lot of postdocs target INS. I'd expect to see many advertisements crop on the October range. For those academically minded, I'd consider looking then. Some programs use combinatory funding approaches (E.g., grants/clinic).

Neuro postdocs outside the match seem to be on a slightly earlier cycle now. Many had interviews in January, and some even make offers before INS.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Neuro postdocs outside the match seem to be on a slightly earlier cycle now. Many had interviews in January, and some even make offers before INS.

Yup, it’s so they can cherry pick and avoid having to recruit from applicants who don’t match. I’m not sure if it has changed, but back when I was applying some of the top sites withdrew from the neuro match to allow them to find better research matches.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yup, it’s so they can cherry pick and avoid having to recruit from applicants who don’t match. I’m not sure if it has changed, but back when I was applying some of the top sites withdrew from the neuro match to allow them to find better research matches.

It's cyclical, but there are some real a$$hats outside of the match. We had an intern who received an offer from a non-match site who made her make a decision before getting off the phone with them. I'd like to say that these types of shenanigans are rare, but nearly every year I have interns who tell me some pretty appalling stories.

 

[NeuroNerd747]

Hi, all! I'm wondering the best way to find OPEN neuro post doc positions. It's been difficult to find sites in general (since not all are in the match as was the case for internship, I know I'm likely missing some that are non-match sites) and when I do find a new one, after a bit of digging, I find they aren't accepting applications for the 2020-2022 training years.

Any advice/guidance would be appreciated! Thank you!

 

[WisNeuro]

Div40 website, npsych listserv, postings at conferences. Personally, I just stuck with APPCN, which made it super easy to find a postdoc, and later on getting board certification.

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

Hi, all! I'm wondering the best way to find OPEN neuro post doc positions. It's been difficult to find sites in general (since not all are in the match as was the case for internship, I know I'm likely missing some that are non-match sites) and when I do find a new one, after a bit of digging, I find they aren't accepting applications for the 2020-2022 training years.

Any advice/guidance would be appreciated! Thank you!

Agreed with WisNeuro, that’s your best bet. But there are a lot of solid non-APPCN sites (just do your homework to be sure it meets Houston Conference guidelines). Join listservs (I saw most from npsych and AACN). It’s early for post docs to be sent out, but expect to see them pop up beginning late October or so.

 

[NeuroNerd747]

Div40 website, npsych listserv, postings at conferences. Personally, I just stuck with APPCN, which made it super easy to find a postdoc, and later on getting board certification.

Thank you! I'll be sure to verify I'm on each listserv. 🙂

 

[NeuroNerd747]

Agreed with WisNeuro, that’s your best bet. But there are a lot of solid non-APPCN sites (just do your homework to be sure it meets Houston Conference guidelines). Join listservs (I saw most from npsych and AACN). It’s early for post docs to be sent out, but expect to see them pop up beginning late October or so.

Yeah, I'm a bit early in planning, so I'll keep that in mind and verify listservs I'm on. Thanks!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It’s definitely early in the application cycle, so some/many sites may not have confirmed funding yet, so they likely won’t post until all of the ducks are in a row. Fellowship was easily my favorite two years of training....albeit the most stressful. Good luck!

 

[psychdoc001]

Maybe there is already a forum for this, but I am still not clear about the difference between getting a postdoc position vs. getting a real job. Many people told me it is better to get a postdoc position. But I wonder why. Is this true?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

A postdoc is a time-limited position designed to offer further training and supervision. Its level of formality and structure can vary substantially from one site to the next. A job is generally not time-limited, and while it may offer supervision, its main purpose is not training or supervision (it's typically service provision). When postdoc positions are informal and primarily only involve seeing patients and being supervised by a licensed psychologist, the line between the two becomes blurred.

Postdocs have their advantages, but are not universally required or recommended. The advantages typically involve the added training and the more structured/formalized supervision arrangement. It can also then be easier to later track someone down to verify your supervised experience hours, such as when applying for licensure.

 

[foreverbull]

Maybe there is already a forum for this, but I am still not clear about the difference between getting a postdoc position vs. getting a real job. Many people told me it is better to get a postdoc position. But I wonder why. Is this true?

Both offer supervision and lead to licensure and accrual of postdoc hours. Formal postdocs may offer more training opportunities, but not always. Depending on one’s specialty/track or longterm career goals, it may be desirable to have a formal postdoc (neuropsych requires it, a few sites might prefer it), but for generalists, there’s not much of a difference (if any) in terms of how it’s viewed by employers.

As an example, most of the formal postdocs I applied to wouldn’t have offered much in the way of new training (it would’ve just been a continuation of what I did on internship, for the most part), and my unofficial postdoc job gave me the opportunity to work with an entirely new population that opened up more practice opportunities.

EDIT: I would also add that APA-accredited education and APA-accredited internship is far more important than having a formal postdoc.