Post Interview Deciding Factors?

[Mike97]

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I hear a lot about how the purpose of your primary application is to get you an interview invite. But, once you have that invite... are all interviewing applicants then on the same level? So post interview, are admission committees deciding based on interview performance, or is the primary application still playing a role as well? Thanks!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Yup, I almost tagged you as I wrote that haha, as I remembered. How do you know this information btw? If you can share.

I got accepted at WashU right after I wrote her the letter. Like literally a day later she called me and thanked me for the thank you note and offered me a spot.

 

[DoctorFate]

I got accepted at WashU right after I wrote her the letter. Like literally a day later she called me and thanked me for the thank you note and offered me a spot.

Did you email it to the adcom general email, or address and send it to dr. Ratts specifically

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I always hedge in life. So far I have sent thanks you notes to half and didn’t send to the other half.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Did you email it to the adcom general email, or address and send it to dr. Ratts specifically

To her personally.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I hear a lot about how the purpose of your primary application is to get you an interview invite. But, once you have that invite... are all interviewing applicants then on the same level? So post interview, are admission committees deciding based on interview performance, or is the primary application still playing a role as well? Thanks!

not a level playing field at all. I would even go so far to say that most med schools know who they will accept and who they will waitlist before interviews.

 

[KnightDoc]

I always hedge in life. So far I have sent thanks you notes to half and didn’t send to the other half.

If you get bored on Wall Street and the medicine thing doesn't work out, you have a bright future in stand up comedy.

 

[KnightDoc]

not a level playing field at all. I would even go so far to say that most med schools know who they will accept and who they will waitlist before interviews.

I think this is a huge overstatement of @LizzyM's staircase. If it were true, MANY fewer IIs would be issued, A rates would be far higher, and WLs would be far smaller than they are. Schools devote significant resources into IIs to have another input in the process, not just to go through the motions before disappointing us, although it definitely feels that way when we are disappointed.

@Mike97 -- they are used, but no, we are not all equal once we get to the interview. Interviews are another data point that goes into your file when the adcom meets to make a decision on you. An analogy I like involves sports. Pick any one you like, but the NCAA men's basketball tournament works well. 68 teams are invited. They all start with a 0-0 record, and, as we all know, anything can and does sometimes happen. That said, the top teams are far better than the play-in teams. They have an easier path to the Final 4, and they end up being champions far more often than lower ranked teams. Same here.

@voxveritatisetlucis -- The fact that they are not the be-all, end-all once you get to that point does not mean they are virtually meaningless, even if there is a staircase, and even if it's not easy to go from the bottom to the top based on interview performance. Hopefully, your perspective will change as you receive more results.

 

[Goro]

not a level playing field at all. I would even go so far to say that most med schools know who they will accept and who they will waitlist before interviews.

Please refrain from commenting on topics that you clearly know nothing about

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Please refrain from commenting on topics that you clearly know nothing about

It’s just hard for me to believe that enough people have “really good” or “really bad” interviews for the interview to be an element of the application that can differentiate between so many interviewees:

A good chunk of schools accept less than a half and some less than a third of people who interview. Is it really possible that so many people bomb the interview at these schools and therefore don’t get the A?

 

[Dogruffle01]

Please refrain from commenting on topics that you clearly know nothing about

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

It’s just hard for me to believe that enough people have “really good” or “really bad” interviews for the interview to be an element of the application that can differentiate between so many interviewees:

A good chunk of schools accept less than a half and some less than a third of people who interview. Is it really possible that so many people bomb the interview at these schools and therefore don’t get the A?

I don't think people bomb their interviews per se. I think schools look for certain kinds of people and some people just don't fit into one of the types.

 

[deleted1025488]

I don't think people bomb their interviews per se. I think schools look for certain kinds of people and some people just don't fit into one of the types.

Isn't it statistically impossible for some of these schools to not have 'pre accepted' (per se) some students? Like if you want to maintain a 526 90th percentiles or whatever crazy bs schools have these days, you are literally obligated to auto admit 524+ or 526+, and there's extremely limited supply of those. Unless you have a heinous interview or something.

 

[Talldoctor96]

It’s just hard for me to believe that enough people have “really good” or “really bad” interviews for the interview to be an element of the application that can differentiate between so many interviewees:

A good chunk of schools accept less than a half and some less than a third of people who interview. Is it really possible that so many people bomb the interview at these schools and therefore don’t get the A?

why is this hard for you to believe?? A medical school interview is super hard and requires a ton of preparation. I have bad interviewees all the time. My medical school interviews were probably the most challenging thing ive ever done. Theres no room for error.

 

[MyOdyssey]

why is this hard for you to believe?? A medical school interview is super hard and requires a ton of preparation. I have bad interviewees all the time. My medical school interviews were probably the most challenging thing ive ever done. Theres no room for error.

A ton of preparation beyond all the work required to put together primary and secondary applications?

What kind of additional preparation?

 

[deleted1025488]

why is this hard for you to believe?? A medical school interview is super hard and requires a ton of preparation. I have bad interviewees all the time. My medical school interviews were probably the most challenging thing ive ever done. Theres no room for error.

I completely bombed 2 MMI stations at a school that only did MMI's. I still got the A there. I think you can make 'errors' but those are different than legitimately blanking on 'why doctor' or 'tell me about yourself' or just failing to have a normal conversation. Some questions are genuinely hard, some MMI stations are difficult, no one expects you to be literally perfect. Setting up these sort of expectations for yourself is what leads to too much self-scrutiny that ultimately manifests as you just saying what you think should be said, i.e. robot.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Isn't it statistically impossible for some of these schools to not have 'pre accepted' (per se) some students? Like if you want to maintain a 526 90th percentiles or whatever crazy bs schools have these days, you are literally obligated to auto admit 524+ or 526+, and there's extremely limited supply of those. Unless you have a heinous interview or something.

Not aware of schools that have 526 as 90th when I applied. The highest seemed to be 524 or 525 (most t10's, I think) There are about 450 people who scored 524+ every year. So say you have 900 people (two years worth of people applying with that number), schools can still be a little bit picky about that.

I basically did a deep dive based on MSAR when I applied for exactly what you mentioned, people with 524+ chances of getting into top 10 regardless of other attributes, since I was really obsessed with my odds. My conclusion is that you probably have double the chance of being accepted after the interview than an average stat person. So Yeah, for some schools, that's almost certainty (Hopkins, UCSF, WashU, Penn and Mayo) For others, no so much.(HMS, Stanford, Duke and etc.) I am talking about t20's.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I completely bombed 2 MMI stations at a school that only did MMI's. I still got the A there. I think you can make 'errors' but those are different than legitimately blanking on 'why doctor' or 'tell me about yourself' or just failing to have a normal conversation. Some questions are genuinely hard, some MMI stations are difficult, no one expects you to be literally perfect. Setting up these sort of expectations for yourself is what leads to too much self-scrutiny that ultimately manifests as you just saying what you think should be said, i.e. robot.

Exactly. They knew beforehand that they wanted to accept you. As long as you didn’t pull a Toobin, you were golden.

I’m sure some people didn’t bomb any stations but got waitlisted.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Btw, the best thing you can do for yourself after an interview is adopt a radical acceptance mindset. Have no post interview expectations so that it is impossible to be let down.

After being waitlisted earlier this week, I have accepted that I will not be gaining admission to medical school this year. It has made me much less anxious about the schools that I’m waiting for to decide later this month. I will keep going to the interviews that I have and if I get any more because it costs me literally nothing (no travel, can make up the work I miss at night). If nothing comes of them, then so be it.

 

[Goro]

It’s just hard for me to believe that enough people have “really good” or “really bad” interviews for the interview to be an element of the application that can differentiate between so many interviewees:

A good chunk of schools accept less than a half and some less than a third of people who interview. Is it really possible that so many people bomb the interview at these schools and therefore don’t get the A?

Thank you for proving my point.

It's not that people bomb their interviews. It's more analogous to the Olympics, where 0.1 of a second can determine if someone can get into the medal round.

 

[DoctorFate]

Btw, the best thing you can do for yourself after an interview is adopt a radical acceptance mindset. Have no post interview expectations so that it is impossible to be let down.

After being waitlisted earlier this week, I have accepted that I will not be gaining admission to medical school this year. It has made me much less anxious about the schools that I’m waiting for to decide later this month. I will keep going to the interviews that I have and if I get any more because it costs me literally nothing (no travel, can make up the work I miss at night). If nothing comes of them, then so be it.

I think there is some truth to what you say, except not nearly to the level you made it seem. Of course there are people at the top of the staircase that just need to barely "pass" (5/10) the interview to be accepted. And there are other people at the bottom that need an absolutely steller 10/10 to get accepted. But, by definition, the majority of people are near the middle of the staircase and need to do well to get accepted (7-8/10).

 

[Dogruffle01]

I completely bombed 2 MMI stations at a school that only did MMI's. I still got the A there. I think you can make 'errors' but those are different than legitimately blanking on 'why doctor' or 'tell me about yourself' or just failing to have a normal conversation. Some questions are genuinely hard, some MMI stations are difficult, no one expects you to be literally perfect. Setting up these sort of expectations for yourself is what leads to too much self-scrutiny that ultimately manifests as you just saying what you think should be said, i.e.

I completely bombed 2 MMI stations at a school that only did MMI's. I still got the A there. I think you can make 'errors' but those are different than legitimately blanking on 'why doctor' or 'tell me about yourself' or just failing to have a normal conversation. Some questions are genuinely hard, some MMI stations are difficult, no one expects you to be literally perfect. Setting up these sort of expectations for yourself is what leads to too much self-scrutiny that ultimately manifests as you just saying what you think should be said, i.e. robot.

Same... I said some stuff in my interview that was def rated R, but I guess that made my interviewer think I was a real person.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Same... I said some stuff in my interview that was def rated R, but I guess that made my interviewer think I was a real person.

Halo effect in action

LM83 swears during interview —> “He’s so real and genuine”

LM68 swears during interview —> “He’s immature and not cut out for the profession”

 

[deleted936268]

I don't think people bomb their interviews per se. I think schools look for certain kinds of people and some people just don't fit into one of the types.

Based on their mission? Is aligning with a school's mission for T20s (which is mostly just research research research) really that different among them? How would they decide between 5 similar candidates that are all on an academic med narrative w a lot of research and high stats?

 

[Goro]

Based on their mission? Is aligning with a school's mission for T20s (which is mostly just research research research) really that different among them? How would they decide between 5 similar candidates that are all on an academic med narrative w a lot of research and high stats?

Interviewees do not compete for a single seat. They compete for A seat. All five of your hypotheticals would be accepted.

Now, if you're talking about who to pick from the wait list, generally each one of these candidates will have been ranked. One of the considerations is their proximity to the school. Another might be why they were placed on the wait list as opposed to getting accepted outright. But overall, it's not an easy thing to do.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Another important factor that a lot of people are missing is the volume of approval needed for an interview versus an acceptance.

For an interview, maybe 2 or 3 adcom members have to give approval. For an acceptance it takes a decent to good score from most committee members.

This has been my problem thus far. Anything that is polarizing is really magnified after the interview. Law of large numbers

 

[DoctorFate]

Interviewees do not compete for a single seat. They compete for A seat. All five of your hypotheticals would be accepted.

Now, if you're talking about who to pick from the wait list, generally each one of these candidates will have been ranked. One of the considerations is their proximity to the school. Another might be why they were placed on the wait list as opposed to getting accepted outright. But overall, it's not an easy thing to do.

Is the main reason private schools care about in state is that because it increases yield?

 

[DoctorFate]

Another important factor that a lot of people are missing is the volume of approval needed for an interview versus an acceptance.

For an interview, maybe 2 or 3 adcom members have to give approval. For an acceptance it takes a decent to good score from most committee members.

This has been my problem thus far. Anything that is polarizing is really magnified after the interview. Law of large number

Dude with 8 IIs at this point, you're definitely gonna get accepted somewhere. Hell, you probably have more than 8 at this point.

How many of your schools have released decisions at this point?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Dude with 8 IIs at this point, you're definitely gonna get accepted somewhere. Hell, you probably have more than 8 at this point.

How many of your schools have released decisions at this point?

I have 13 IIs, interviewed at 6. 3 have started accepting (1 of which I probably wouldn’t have even gotten into previous time I applied because they accept so few after interview). Still waiting on 25ish pre ii

 

[MyOdyssey]

Is the main reason private schools care about in state is that because it increases yield?

Some get funding predicated on preferring instate. A perfect example would be Baylor.

 

[deleted936268]

I have 13 IIs, interviewed at 6. 3 have started accepting (1 of which I probably wouldn’t have even gotten into previous time I applied because they accept so few after interview). Still waiting on 25ish pre ii

Off topic but why med instead of Wall street.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Some get funding predicated on preferring instate. A perfect example would be Baylor.

Doesn’t state funding pale in comparison to federal?

 

[deleted936268]

Thank you for proving my point.

It's not that people bomb their interviews. It's more analogous to the Olympics, where 0.1 of a second can determine if someone can get into the medal round.

Do T10s (just bc i might miss T20 research schools like umich) really factor proximity? Surely Harvard etc know people even from Arizona or Washington or deep South would still highly likely attend.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Off topic but why med instead of Wall street.

Too stressful, not enough meaning.

I always think of the guys who worked their entire careers at Lehman. One day it all comes crashing down. No other firms will touch you and or have any openings. The past 13 years have been an anomaly. It won’t last

 

[KnightDoc]

Is the main reason private schools care about in state is that because it increases yield?

It's not yield, and it's not exclusive to private schools. Schools want to fill their classes with the best possible candidates. By the time they are pulling from the WL, they really just want to fill the seat, and don't really want to have to make 6 calls to fill a single seat. Experience shows that physical proximity that causes people to make a choice, so it's something that is considered when making calls in May.

 

[LizzyM]

Some people do surprise us on interview day -- either because they do so poorly or because they do so well. That's why interviews matter for those on every tread of the staircase who make it to interview. I've seen those at the top drop to the bottom and those at the bottom rise to the top. It also helps sort out the middle

Some people want to go to a medical school that will position them well for a residency in the geographic area where they see themselves working as attendings some day. For many people who went far from home for college, medical school is a time to "come home" and private schools recognize that. There is also something to be said for the social support that one has with family close by.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Doesn’t state funding pale in comparison to federal?

I believe that the state of TX pays TX state medical schools and Baylor to keep in state admissions at 90% and that this funding isn't predicated on doing research unlike federal funding.

 

[KnightDoc]

Do T10s (just bc i might miss T20 research schools like umich) really factor proximity? Surely Harvard etc know people even from Arizona or Washington or deep South would still highly likely attend.

True. Harvard doesn't care about proximity. Most other schools do. Just pick any school at all and look at MSAR, and see how many don't give an advantage to IS, both for IIs and for As. IS yields tend to be higher, and proximity is a reason why Philly people prefer Penn over Hopkins, and why Chicago people might prefer Chicago or Northwestern over Penn.

 

[deleted936268]

Some people do surprise us on interview day -- either because they do so poorly or because they do so well. That's why interviews matter for those on every tread of the staircase who make it to interview. I've seen those at the top drop to the bottom and those at the bottom rise to the top. It also helps sort out the middle

Some people want to go to a medical school that will position them well for a residency in the geographic area where they see themselves working as attendings some day. For many people who went far from home for college, medical school is a time to "come home" and private schools recognize that. There is also something to be said for the social support that one has with family close by.

Kind of an on-off topic but what makes an excellent interview excellent? I've seen Goro's interview mistakes list and all, but what makes an amazing interview that? General and specific things.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Some people just have a natural charisma that is impossible not to like. Think Tony Soprano. I imagine that these people are often perceived by interviewers to be “excellent” applicants.

In the show, I know that Meadow wants to go to medical school at one point. Wonder if she would’ve gotten in?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Based on their mission? Is aligning with a school's mission for T20s (which is mostly just research research research) really that different among them? How would they decide between 5 similar candidates that are all on an academic med narrative w a lot of research and high stats?

More like personality. Likability.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Too stressful, not enough meaning.

I always think of the guys who worked their entire careers at Lehman. One day it all comes crashing down. No other firms will touch you and or have any openings. The past 13 years have been an anomaly. It won’t last

Been perusing The Great Gatsby again, eh?

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Kind of an on-off topic but what makes an excellent interview excellent? I've seen Goro's interview mistakes list and all, but what makes an amazing interview that? General and specific things.

You brag but the other person thinks you are amazing and genuine. Lol

 

[deleted936268]

You brag but the other person thinks you are amazing and genuine. Lol

How's that work lol

 

[LizzyM]

Kind of an on-off topic but what makes an excellent interview excellent? I've seen Goro's interview mistakes list and all, but what makes an amazing interview that? General and specific things.

Going back to something I wrote in an AMA almost 10 years ago:

Personable & friendly. Natural (not a robot or actor)

Able to communicate clearly in English with good vocabulary and without extraneous filler (um, ya'know, like). Able to discuss complex information in an easily understood manner.

Interested in the world and particularly in people, interesting to talk with, interested in practicing medicine and can describe "why medicine" and answer questions about that choice and about experiences in clinical settings.

Positive, up-beat, enthusiastic about something.

Respectful of others and not condescending or haughty.

I might add, able to give short answers in response to the question asked rather than launching into a 10 minute backstory that repeats what is in the application that the interviewer has told you that they've read.

 

[NegativeMargin]

So after reading all the comments here...

After having a conversation with an adcom through email, where they asked me to clarify details of my app and then immediately sent me an interview invite after doing so, I decided to reach out in that same email chain from that adcom after the interview took place. To thank them again, as I did in the initial email response, for reaching out to me for clarification as it allowed me to put my best foot forward, and ultimately led me to the pleasant interview experience I had with them weeks later. The adcom responded enthusiastically in return with smiley faces and joy, stating that they appreciated it, and then stated "if I would like" I could write a thank you letter to the rest of the admissions team, and they finished by saying: "I will happily forward it to them 🙂". We were not given ways to contact them during the interview.

So, it appears I've learned a lesson here.. as I was previously quite tentative to send an email thank you, and in doing so now am in a position to ultimately write two. And for at least one member of the admissions team for that school, they appeared to approve strongly. What effect it will have on my admission at this point almost seems irrelevant, as customs and courtesies take precedence over any feelings I might have against brown-nosing.

As a side note, it really has been great to build a rapport with a member of an admissions team over a few months, and whether or not I get in I will certainly remember how supportive and decent they have been, both in these emails and during the half-day virtual interview. I see horror stories on this forum and reddit, and so far my experience has been nothing but fun and positive. Perhaps I'll feel differently in 6 months if I have no A's, but I really shouldn't, as they're just doing their job, and well.