Post-match blues

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PL198 said:
I said something similar and got shredded for it. lolz
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Yeah, I remember this coming up on these forums a few times and I know the status quo has a lot of support on here and by most students. I can understand that I guess, as the majority of students aren't going into the highly competitive fields and just want to celebrate a good match. I just find it weird that medical school is all about professionalism and self restraint, and then match day comes along and all that bulslhit goes right out the window lol. On match day you will literally see people screaming at the top of thier lungs for joy next to people crying in embarrassment and confusion. Looking back, I think in 2015 with all the competition, match day is an obsolete tradition that no longer makes sense.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
75% of US grads get one of their top 3 choices. The idea that match day is a battlefield of scorched earth and broken dreams is not an accurate reflection of reality.
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Nice strawman. I clearly said the majority of students aren't going into highly competitive specialties, and thus wouldn't experience what my ortho/ent/derm classmates have.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
Your looking down on your "less competitive " classmates is part of why I find your posts so obnoxious.
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Not looking down, just describing what made the situation unusual. Of course, you're free to interpret as you like but I think you're being sensitive.

Strong excuse for the straw man, btw.

GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
I applied to a very competitive specialty and experienced none of that.
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Congrats brah, me neither. I got lucky. Just feel bad for some of my compadres.
 
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KinasePro said:
Congrats brah. I'm not complaining though, I got lucky. Just feel bad for my compadres.
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I've always found that the harder I worked, the luckier I got.

Students applying to traditionally very competitive specialties would be wise not to enter the match process expecting their top choice program, anymore than a college student entering medical school should expect to match into the most competitive specialties. I am certainly not suggesting that medical students can't be frustrated or disappointed with their match results; however, match day should not be the first time they've addressed/considered these very real issues.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
I've always found that the harder I worked, the luckier I got.

Students applying to traditionally very competitive specialties would be wise not to enter the match process expecting their top choice program, anymore than a college student entering medical school should expect to match into the most competitive specialties. I am certainly not suggesting that medical students can't be frustrated or disappointed with their match results; however, match day should not be the first time they've addressed/considered these very real issues.
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I think it'd be hard to find someone that hasn't contemplated those issues. Everyone applying to these fields is concerned, to some extent, about not matching at all. But its the juxtaposition of ecstatic classmates nailing their #1 rank and the disappointment of matching in the double digits that is upsetting to people. It's not unlike if we had a step 1 score release day or something and everyone experienced their joy or disappointment at once.
 
KinasePro said:
I think it'd be hard to find someone that hasn't contemplated those issues. Everyone applying to these fields is concerned, to some extent, about not matching at all. But its the juxtaposition of ecstatic classmates nailing their #1 rank and the disappointment of matching in the double digits that is upsetting to people. It's not unlike if we had a step 1 score release day or something and everyone experienced their joy or disappointment at once.
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I literally said the same exact thing, its in another thread here
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
I've always found that the harder I worked, the luckier I got.

Students applying to traditionally very competitive specialties would be wise not to enter the match process expecting their top choice program, anymore than a college student entering medical school should expect to match into the most competitive specialties. I am certainly not suggesting that medical students can't be frustrated or disappointed with their match results; however, match day should not be the first time they've addressed/considered these very real issues.
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I've tried to avoid commenting on this thread.

1. I love my current program
2. Implying a lack of hard work (unlike you) was the reason I matched near the bottom of my list is wrong. Step 1/2 both over 270, honors in every course/clerkship/subI, junior AOA, multiple first author pubs in both ENT and other specialties. I got a ton of interviews, interviewed at 15, with most "top" programs represented as well as regional schools.
3. Match day was hard for me because I looked at where I matched and knew it wasn't because of "how hard I worked". I either interviewed poorly or had letters that were bad (unlikely with the number and quality of interviews I got).

It came down to my personality. I've always struggled with social anxiety and likely came off as a jerk in a 15 minute interview. I was frustrated and upset because it's like my work didn't matter. Every doubt I had about myself was confirmed. I still feel terrible about it. It wasn't about not going to prestigious program X or feeling purposeless like OP, the match felt like a referendum on my personality which said to me, "You can work as hard as you want, you'll always struggle because you're an unlikeable person."
 
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PatsyStone said:
I am so thrilled to have matched, however, I feel a little sad. I have spent the past several years working my butt off so I could match, and now that I have, I don't know what to look to next. Where is my life going? What do I want my want my sub-field focus to be? Do I want to stay in academics or cash-out and go into private practice? Do I want to keep doing research? Where do I want to live after residency?

Does anyone else feel the same way? Do any residents/attendings have any advice?
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I don't feel the same way you do, but I understand why you feel the way you do. I felt like, for me, these past 4 years have been like track and field hurdling where you jump over one hurdle and quickly before you can fully rest, a new hurdle appears. Fall or knock one down at any time and that's enough of an excuse not to match into derm: preclinical grades + shelves, Step 1, clinicals + shelves (which even if you hate/don't like them you have to pretend like you do just because you still have to get Honors), research, AOA, and being judged on interviews for things out of my control - my lower ranked medical school, the lack of prestige of my home derm department. Now that it's over, you have no idea what to do bc you've been used to running and jumping for so long. Find something else to do other than the next academic hurdle - see @FIREitUP's post. We won. It's over. No one can take our specialty away from us.

Question #1 - it's nothing that shopping won't cure. I think questions #2-5 will be answered for you in residency if not immediately after.

I think @Kaustikos may have not read exactly why you feel sad, but his broader point about a reality check makes sense if you see his point in what he was saying. I really think the post-pregnancy blues analogy that was said is really accurate here.

W19 said:
Maybe some people start realizing that they are not going to match into these specialties if they don't have their **** together.
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Or our school that "advises" people to play it safe.
KinasePro said:
What makes the whole thing that much more irritating though, is that the match day ceremonies were pretty much feast or famine. You're either spiking the football in front of your classmates or trying to politely excuse yourself form the festivities so you can go figure out your life. Ours was painful bc the non-competitive fields (peds, medicine, psych) matched at all premier programs, while the competitive fields had people landing all over the spectrum. It was a weird dissonance that didn't seem right. Felt like a lot of people were alienated that day and not in the mood to celebrate, while others were inadvertently rubbing it in. Made me question the whole tradition of match day all together.
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OMG, Miami had their match day video on their website from last year where they come up and announce their match to everyone on a mic, and this prissy model Asian girl totally got to do that to announce her matching derm at Columbia. Ugh. Glad ours just let us get our envelopes.

KinasePro said:
Not looking down, just describing what made the situation unusual. Of course, you're free to interpret as you like but I think you're being sensitive. Strong excuse for the straw man, btw.
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He does that a lot with people it seems. I thought it was just me. You weren't even putting down or looking down on people who weren't going in competitive fields. He interpreted that from what you said.
 
VisionaryTics said:
...
It came down to my personality. I've always struggled with social anxiety and likely came off as a jerk in a 15 minute interview. I was frustrated and upset because it's like my work didn't matter. Every doubt I had about myself was confirmed. I still feel terrible about it. It wasn't about not going to prestigious program X or feeling purposeless like OP, the match felt like a referendum on my personality which said to me, "You can work as hard as you want, you'll always struggle because you're an unlikeable person."
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I think this really sums up how many folks who didn't get their #1 feel and it really says a lot about your insight and character. I don't think that anything I could write could change how you feel, but I am impressed. Some of the folks posting all over SDN could benefit from reading this.
 
VisionaryTics said:
I've tried to avoid commenting on this thread.

1. I love my current program
2. Implying a lack of hard work (unlike you) was the reason I matched near the bottom of my list is wrong. Step 1/2 both over 270, honors in every course/clerkship/subI, junior AOA, multiple first author pubs in both ENT and other specialties. I got a ton of interviews, interviewed at 15, with most "top" programs represented as well as regional schools.
3. Match day was hard for me because I looked at where I matched and knew it wasn't because of "how hard I worked". I either interviewed poorly or had letters that were bad (unlikely with the number and quality of interviews I got).

It came down to my personality. I've always struggled with social anxiety and likely came off as a jerk in a 15 minute interview. I was frustrated and upset because it's like my work didn't matter. Every doubt I had about myself was confirmed. I still feel terrible about it. It wasn't about not going to prestigious program X or feeling purposeless like OP, the match felt like a referendum on my personality which said to me, "You can work as hard as you want, you'll always struggle because you're an unlikeable person."
Click to expand...

It's sad how much comes down to people liking you and being able to have the swagger to impress in a short interview.
 
So much to respond to...

As for the OP's original point, even matching at one's first choice can cause someone to feel like this. I think anyone who's gone from being out of shape to running their first marathon can empathize. You tell yourself after a whole season of training, reading, buying expensive placebo compression devices, "when I step over that line, it's going to be the greatest physical accomplishment of my life! I'm going to know that I'm capable of anything! I'm going to be filled with so much joy!"

The reality is that when finished the first thought once the initial excitement wears of is usually something like "wow, I have to poop."

The thought a few days later is "wow, I'm sore. What do I do with myself now?"


Matching is a lot like that. Suddenly the reality of situations like "umm, ok, I'm suddenly moving from Philly to Milwaukee in 3 months and I have to find an apartment in a city I've only stepped foot in for the interview day. Where the hell does someone live in Milwaukee? This ad on Craigslist looks nice. Are those bullet holes in the pic?" You go from recognizing one accomplishment to suddenly having a whole stack of new things you have to do before you start.
 
charmiedermie said:
Not when the underlying motive is to make the school look good with a 100% match. I put advises in quotes for a reason.
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it also makes the students look good... I'd rather match into the worst program in my desired field than sit out and wait a year and try to get something better, which isn't likely at all...

playing it safe is the smart advice. ie you rank some programs that you're absolutely overqualified for, so that if for some reason every bad thing happens possible, you still match.
 
PL198 said:
it also makes the students look good... I'd rather match into the worst program in my desired field than sit out and wait a year and try to get something better, which isn't likely at all...

playing it safe is the smart advice. ie you rank some programs that you're absolutely overqualified for, so that if for some reason every bad thing happens possible, you still match.
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I read that as the school advises borderline applicants to choose a less competitive specialty
 
PL198 said:
it also makes the students look good... I'd rather match into the worst program in my desired field than sit out and wait a year and try to get something better, which isn't likely at all...

playing it safe is the smart advice. ie you rank some programs that you're absolutely overqualified for, so that if for some reason every bad thing happens possible, you still match.
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I'm not talking about matching into the worst program in one's desired field. I'm talking about another specialty altogether, usually a much less competitive one. That's gaming the system under the guise of "advising".

joker2400 said:
I read that as the school advises borderline applicants to choose a less competitive specialty
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You read correctly.
 
charmiedermie said:
I'm not talking about matching into the worst program in one's desired field. I'm talking about another specialty altogether, usually a much less competitive one. That's gaming the system under the guise of "advising".


You read correctly.
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oh my bad then, I thought you meant like within programs not different specialties.

however I'd say it's better to be conservative than to tell a kid with a 220 that he's going to match into plastics, which I think is what the typical academic error would be.
 
PL198 said:
oh my bad then, I thought you meant like within programs not different specialties.

however I'd say it's better to be conservative than to tell a kid with a 220 that he's going to match into plastics, which I think is what the typical academic error would be.
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Except you get 2 chances for plastics - integrated or after a categorical general surgery residency, since there are only 67 integrated plastics programs. You're not giving up a dream just because you didn't do the integrated route.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
The point was that giving someone advice that they aren't competitive is sometimes necessary and the right thing to do; the specific field is irrelevant.
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My point is it wasn't a good example. No reason to feel sad if you're told not to go for Integrated Plastics. Be the best gen surg resident and go for Plastics then.

Much different than after 4 years of hard work, told that you should go for IM, when you've shaped your research, experiences, and fallen in love with Radiology.
 
charmiedermie said:
My point is it wasn't a good example. No reason to feel sad if you're told not to go for Integrated Plastics. Be the best gen surg resident and go for Plastics then.

Much different than after 4 years of hard work, told that you should go for IM, when you've shaped your research, experiences, and fallen in love with Radiology.
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alright make it derm. 220 kid shooting for derm. you're giving them the thumps up?

I'm telling them to apply to a back up
 
Any advice on matching Derm? Anything you would recommend? I know it's a broad subject, but maybe some personal pointers you picked up along the way
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
Fine then swap in radiology or urology or dermatology. The field is irrelevant.

Sometimes being an advisor is hard. Telling people what they want to hear does them no favors, and sometimes telling someone to consider a backup plan is the right thing to do.
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I wanna wager how many times you say this before people get it.
 
PL198 said:
alright make it derm. 220 kid shooting for derm. you're giving them the thumps up?

I'm telling them to apply to a back up
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If advising was standardized across the board, I would agree with you. It's not. I'm not talking about applying to two specialties, one as backup. If I had listened to my "advisor" in the Dean's office, I'd be in categorical medicine or radiology right now. I'm glad I didn't.

Let's up it to 234 from UCSF at the third MSPE adjective . Thumbs up or not?
 
charmiedermie said:
Much different than after 4 years of hard work, told that you should go for IM, when you've shaped your research, experiences, and fallen in love with Radiology.
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Sometimes that's the reality though
 
charmiedermie said:
See what I said above regarding my situation. The problem is when the people doing the advising don't know what they are doing or are gaming the system.
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True. But, those two reasons don't hide the reality.
 
charmiedermie said:
If advising was standardized across the board, I would agree with you. It's not. I'm not talking about applying to two specialties, one as backup. If I had listened to my "advisor" in the Dean's office, I'd be in categorical medicine or radiology right now. I'm glad I didn't.

Let's up it to 234 from UCSF at the third MSPE adjective . Thumbs up or not?
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I don't get why they didn't just tell you to apply to both. Like I get it's more money, more travel, more logistical constraints but if someone is borderline competitive like that, might as well do two.
 
PL198 said:
I don't get why they didn't just tell you to apply to both. Like I get it's more money, more travel, more logistical constraints but if someone is borderline competitive like that, might as well do two.
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That's not me. I was using it as an example from 2013/2014:
meded.ucsf.edu/sites/meded.ucsf.edu/files/documents/undergraduate-medical-education/postmatch2014dermatology.pdf
There is no way I would have matched with a 234, no AOA, at the middle MSPE adjective from my school.
 
I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and encouragement. I'm over the blues, and I cannot wait to start my derm residency (too bad I have that whole "intern year" thing first)
 
PatsyStone said:
I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and encouragement. I'm over the blues, and I cannot wait to start my derm residency (too bad I have that whole "intern year" thing first)
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Congrats again!
 
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PatsyStone said:
I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and encouragement. I'm over the blues, and I cannot wait to start my derm residency (too bad I have that whole "intern year" thing first)
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Hope you picked a good intern year program!
 
PatsyStone said:
I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and encouragement. I'm over the blues, and I cannot wait to start my derm residency (too bad I have that whole "intern year" thing first)
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Any advice on people following in your footsteps hoping to do dermatology? I know it's a very broad subject, but maybe personal pointers/advice you picked up along the way... Thank you
 
LichenPlanus said:
Any advice on people following in your footsteps hoping to do dermatology? I know it's a very broad subject, but maybe personal pointers/advice you picked up along the way... Thank you
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You know the people that always crush the exams and can charm the pants off anyone?

Be better than them.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
You know the people that always crush the exams and can charm the pants off anyone?

Be better than them.
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This is basically all you need to know.

--In terms of Step 1, the higher your score, the better. Although scoring above a certain number may make you more competitive to match into any derm spot, a higher score will only help you.

--Be outgoing, charming, likable, and understand that appearance matters. Some people may think the last comment is stereotypical of derm, and to some extent it's true, but in any profession (law, business, or other fields of medicine) someone who dresses well and is well groomed looks more professional. If you are a woman, make sure your hair, makeup, and nails are done tastefully. If you are a man, make sure your facial hair is well groomed, your pants are tailored, and wear a non-ugly tie (these are random points, but most men in my med school seem to be repeat offenders when it comes to these three).

--Research is important for several reasons. Not only does it give you academic credibility, but it is a great way to form a close relationship with a dermatologist who can write you a great LOR for residency. There is also a ton of incidental learning involved in research, and random pearls you learn will make you look smarter than you actually are when you are on aways (you have to do this in the right way though so you don't look like a pompous know-it-all).

--Taking a year off to do a research fellowship is becoming more and more common. It will not hurt you, but YMMV

--Derm is a small field, and interviews are VERY regional. Also, coming from a top school will greatly impact where you receive interviews

--There really are no bad programs, but some are better than others (however, what constitutes a "good" program is highly dependent on what type of training one is looking for)

--AOA helps a lot. There have been posters in the past who remarked on this, but at several interviews, my interviewers had my ERAS picture along with my Step 1 score and AOA status. FWIW, last year, over half of all people who matched to derm were AOA (the highest of any specialty).

--You will be compared to other people in your class who apply for derm. If there are only 2-5 of you, it shouldn't be too bad, but many, many schools have 8, 9 or 10 or more people who apply to derm. Supposedly this year Harvard had 15+ applicants, and as a result, they were unable to offer interviews to all of their home students because they would have taken up too many interview spots.

--Do not ever say negative things about other people in derm because given how small the field is, they may come around to bite you in the butt. Also, never be a gunner or throw your classmates under the bus. Again, things will come around to bite you in the butt. You do not want people to remember you as "that gunner gal who screwed people over so she could match into derm." Instead, you want to be remembered as "that classmate of mine who was super nice to everyone and easy to get alone with. I am so happy that she was able to get a derm spot!"

--Try to get to know the faculty in your department, but understanding that at MOST med schools, derm departments are not super friendly to med students. Be persistent and do not get discouraged.

--Don't tell people you want to go into derm: people will assume you're probably going to try to screw them over
 
PatsyStone said:
I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and encouragement. I'm over the blues, and I cannot wait to start my derm residency (too bad I have that whole "intern year" thing first)
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SHOOZ SHOOZ shooz
Every dermie I know has an insane wardrobe and shoe collection.
Get excited! Unless you're a guy bc men's shoes are mostly boring.
 
PatsyStone said:
--Don't tell people you want to go into derm: people will assume you're probably going to try to screw them over
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lol, all the people I know who matched into derm this year (n=5) are all really decent people on a human level. I think it is terrible that people would think that just based on what specialty you're applying to.
 
Psai said:
that's not what the opening post is about. read the thread before you post
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I didz OP is feeling post match blues, later in the thread says he/she matched into Derm.

I was using humor to poke fun at the fact OP is feeling down after a major accomplishment.

But it is completely normal to feel down after accomplishing a big achievement. It's like when architects get post-build blues where they have depression after finishing a huge new building, and then they have to build more and more to get out of it
 
OP- I can totally relate. Also matched into a competitive specialty and am absolutely thrilled at where I matched but feeling a bit odd. I wouldn't call it blues but a bit of a sense of a loss of purpose in the short term. It just feels like all the hard work and the constant feeling of having to be perfect was building and now that Match has come and gone I don't know what to do with myself; what to worry/stress about, what to work toward next. The idle hands and mind has me going a bit stir crazy. I am just so ready to start residency that this period after match has been a weird experience.

I'm glad you're over your blues, just thought I would lend some support since several folks here have been critical of your post. I totally get what you are talking about.
 
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