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WilcoWorld

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How much time do you typically take off after an overnight?
What do you think is the minimum that a scheduler should automatically provide?

Thanks for your replies - I'm just trying to gauge where I fall on the spectrum.
 
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Hercules

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The 24 hr turnaround is always painful and we try to avoid that in our group. Our scheduling algorithm is set up to try to give 2 days off after a night shift.
-Michael
 

la gringa

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The 24 hr turnaround is always painful and we try to avoid that in our group. Our scheduling algorithm is set up to try to give 2 days off after a night shift.
-Michael

i much prefer this too - i have an AWFUL time w/ the 24 hr turnaround... so much so that i'm switching to work more nights than have to do turnarounds. i think 1.5-2 days is best.
 
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la gringa

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In my opinion, a 24 hr turn around post nights is murder. It's easy enough to do once or twice, but doing it repeatedly is torture. A 48 hr turnaround is minimally acceptable, but still not enough time to reset the circadian rhythm completely (mine, anyways). I personally don't feel totally jet-lag free for about 4 nights sleep, post nights. Not sleeping at, all the day post nights, until 10 or 11 pm that day, then going to sleep is the quickest way to try to reset the system and be able to sleep at night, and be awake the next day. It's mighty, mighty painful, but sleeping all day post nights just drags out the process. None of this is for those with a weak constitution.

i am completely unable to not sleep and just stay up all day... part of the problem. need to have a chat w/ my scheduler - my last gig always did the 48 hrs.
 

Hercules

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If I was single I would probably just stay up all day and sleep the next night. Unfortunately I become a zombie at some point during the day after my night shift if I don't nap and I wind up not being much fun for my kids or wife to be around. My routine for my last shift of nights:
1. Come home and take the kids to school so I get to talk with them for a little bit.
2. Go home and nap for 2 hrs (no more or else I won't sleep that night).
3. Wake up and hit the gym for some weights and cardio.
4. Drink some coffee to stay awake for the rest of the day until I sleep that night.

Works pretty well for me.
 

la gringa

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just b/c we're single doesn't mean we don't affect others ;) my friends and family prefer me to be a human being too.

i find being single and living alone it's easy to just fall asleep and not get up... making getting BACK to sleep that night for an early AM wakeup a real bear.

add in intolerance to coffee/soda and well... it's tough.
 

dchristismi

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Single here too... and working almost all 4p-12a this month. I could never just stay up after an overnight. That is torture. Of course, sleeping 3 hours and fumbling through the day is torture too...

48 hours is what my group aims for, although the last 2 months we've been experimenting with a couple guys who mostly want to work nights. Since there are also a couple of us that prefer evenings, that helps much of the rest of the group stay on days and afternoons.
 

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I've been the night doc at our place for the last 10 years. There are about 4-5 of us nocturnists.

Our scheduler is one of 'em.

Try adding the feet of 3 young boys to the mix. They come in 3:30pm. If I'm not ensconced by then, tough cookies.

I'm working on making my detached garage into my man cave.

By the time that gets done, my arthritis will make any sleep unbearable.
 
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For working or during the recovery period. I'd prefer not to have to take a med in order to be able to work.

The way modafanil works isn't so easily divided into recovery or "have to take it".

The idea is this: you take it Monday morning. You will be fine until Tuesday night. You then go to bed for 8 hours, and awake Wednesday morning just normal.

That is for people without pathologic conditions. It is prescribed for narcolepsy and "shift work sleep disorder". However, the durations I listed above are from information years ago, so I don't know if there have been modifications of the numbers.

Interestingly, modafanil development was pushed by DARPA - the idea was that the army that doesn't have to sleep is twice as large.

edit: it was developed in France - DARPA did experiments with it. My error.
 

tkim

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The way modafanil works isn't so easily divided into recovery or "have to take it".

The idea is this: you take it Monday morning. You will be fine until Tuesday night. You then go to bed for 8 hours, and awake Wednesday morning just normal.

That is for people without pathologic conditions. It is prescribed for narcolepsy and "shift work sleep disorder". However, the durations I listed above are from information years ago, so I don't know if there have been modifications of the numbers.

Interestingly, modafanil development was pushed by DARPA - the idea was that the army that doesn't have to sleep is twice as large.

I've tried provigil. Neither helps me for work or to stay awake the next day.
 

dotcb

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No kids yet. I always sleep 1-3 hrs before a night shift. When I come home I sleep 5-6 hours. If I have another night shift I'll again sleep 1-3 hours before it and 5-6 after it. The next day I'll stay up until 11 or 2, depending on what I need to do the next morning. If I've got a day shift - it sucks but I can do it. Otherwise I'd rather get up at 9 and have a leisurely morning...

Things that help: exercise, good meals, not eating before sleeping, dark room, turn off any alarms, prioritize sleep, caffeine

Things that hurt: Napping in the middle of the day or evening that you're trying to shift back to days
 

WilcoWorld

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I didn't want to bias the thread initially, but now that there are responses I'll state my preference:

I find that a minimum of 48 hours off is required. Less than that and I think my patient care actually suffers. In fact, going into overnights isn't that big of a deal - it's having to set an alarm clock any less than 48 hours after my last shift that hurts.
 

BADMD

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I definitely need at least 48 hours in transition and that assumes I have a miserable post call day.

I've now had two night shift periods where my circadian rhythm adjusted backward. Those took a full week to get back to normal and it was extremely painful. I now deliberately sleep very little, if at all, on the day after my last shift and make sure I'm dead tired at my normal bedtime.
 

la gringa

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most people use caffeine as their "drug" tkim... i can't b/c of my issues w/ gastritis and migraines. either the vehicle or the caffeine causes problems.

i'm very close to volunteering to be a nocturnist. we don't have one, i wouldn't really mind, and could use the $$$.
 
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