postbacc- SFSU vs Community college?

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Necr0sis713

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  1. Pre-Medical
I've been trying to find a good post bacc that doesn't have a 3.0 cutoff. I currently have a 2.5 GPA in psychology (horrible, I know...)

SFSU seems to have a 2.5 cutoff which I could try to still apply in, but I live in Illinois. Would taking these classes in Cali be worth it, considering they're not from a community college. My community college is ranked pretty high up there though.

Also, my goals are leaning towards getting entered into an SMP mores than DO or MD first. So with this in mind, do you think SMP's are bias against community colleges?
 
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I've been trying to find a good post bacc that doesn't have a 3.0 cutoff. I currently have a 2.5 GPA in psychology (horrible, I know...)

SFSU seems to have a 2.5 cutoff which I could try to still apply in, but I live in Illinois. Would taking these classes in Cali be worth it, considering they're not from a community college. My community college is ranked pretty high up there though.

Also, my goals are leaning towards getting entered into an SMP mores than DO or MD first. So with this in mind, do you think SMP's are bias against community colleges?
Med schools and SMPs are biased against CC

Your 2.5 cGPA is from a CC? ..... that doesn't bode well.... bad grades from a lower academic level...
 
No they're from a state university. Was just really unmotivated when I was younger and thought I was gonna go big as a musician, I considered my psych degree "a backup plan" rather than something I was passionate about.

But I might need to go to CC as a DIY post bacc vs take my chances at an out of state formal post bacc
 
There is no quick, inexpensive or efficient way to get into med school from a 2.5. If you are looking for a quick, inexpensive or efficient way to get into med school, you will fail.

You should definitely be looking at a couple of CC classes before you do anything else. The first question is "exactly what has you thinking you can get A's in classes that are much harder than anything you've seen before?" So right now, taking one class, such as math or statistics or biology, at a CC, is the next thing to do. If you get an A, then do it again with 2 classes. Then you might have a rational basis for starting the flawless, multiple-year undergrad effort that you'll need to get into med school. If you have money to spend and you make no mistakes, you could be ready to apply to DO school in 2 years. MD in about 5. Really.

At this point the word "postbac" can only hurt you, because the term isn't specific enough. You need GPA redemption from a 2.5 in psych. There's no formal premed postbac that will help you. There's no premed adviser who can help you. There is no quick, inexpensive or efficient way to get into med school from a 2.5. You'll have to be the adult in charge of whether this all works out or not.

The price of admission to med school is a multiple-year very strong academic performance, usually 4 years of undergrad. You don't have that asset. You have to produce a comparable asset. You need to be looking for ways to do about 3 years of full time undergrad. One way is to do a 2nd bachelors. Another way is to get a job at a university so you get a tuition discount and registration priority.

You would be smart to start figuring out the kinds of part time jobs (preferably in health care) that can carry you along this multiple-year effort. You're past the point where borrowing federal student loans is an answer - you are going to need to pay for almost everything out of pocket. Private student loans are a trainwreck: don't be tempted.

Moving away from home would be a mistake, unless you have absolutely no support there. Moving to California would be unbelievably stupid, if you want to go to med school. If you really want out of Illinois then look at establishing a domicile (by getting a job and paying rent and taxes) in a state like Texas or Ohio where there are lots of public med schools and low tuition. Texas academic forgiveness is a reasonable option, which you'll reject because it takes too long, and then 7 years from now you'll regret not considering it seriously.

You'll start seeing gorgeous full-color ads for Ross and SGU and AUC. You are exactly the student they love in the Caribbean. Don't be a marketing victim. Don't even think about the Carib.

tl;dr: think long term. get a job. be the grownup.

Best of luck to you.
 
I agree with Dr. Midlife that you have a big uphill battle to fight here. You really do need at least 2-4 years with all A's. Maybe an A- or two would be ok, but you have to prove without a doubt you're not that 2.5 GPA student anymore. Medical schools get so many applications that it'll be easy for a lot of them to just use your GPA to screen you out right away. And even if you do 3 or 4 years of coursework with near all A's and do really well on the MCAT, you should still apply very broadly because it's still an uphill battle.

I would recommend getting a second bachelor's, but like DrMidlife said--that's not covered by federal aid. But if you can get a job and go to a state school, that might be the route to take. Post-bacs are too short and too specific. If you do a second bachelor's, make sure you major in something you would like to do if you can't get into medical school. (Make sure it's practical and will allow you to pay off your debt, like engineering, math, programming, etc. I enjoy the liberal arts (majored in them myself), but there's no point in going back to school for a liberal art degree.)

I think that's how you really need to look at it--starting over from scatch. Unfortunately medical schools won't ignore your prior GPA (though DO schools will often take the best grade in a specific course if you repeat it), but what's in the past has already happened and you can't change that.

SFSU wouldn't make any sense--you need more than just a post-bac program, it's too expensive (out of state), and probably too competitive to get into (2.5 is their minimum, but it's a good post-bac program and they generally accept people they thing have a very good shot of getting into medical school with 1-2 years of post-bac coursework).

Honestly, think long and hard if you're really willing to sacrifice immensely for this, and if it's what you really want. If you can see yourself being happy/successful in any other career, you should probably go that route (that's advice I'd give to most pre-meds in general).

If this is what you really want to do, and are ok with the prospect of really sacrificing much of your youth (starting medical school in 4-5 years, and finishing residency/starting practice 11 years from now--maybe less if you can really get things together), then I would pretty much take DrMidlife's advice word-for-word. The only extra bit I really have to offer is do the community college thing for 2 years and then transfer to an in-state public school and try to get a degree out of all this effort. I do believe it's possible, but it's definitely a long uphill battle, and you should have a plan B in mind.
 
I appreciate the in depth replies.

As of now, money isn't an issue as i'm not taking out student loans, although saving money would definitely be of great benefit.

I understand that there's no quick solution to get into med school from a 2.5 in Psych, and I completely understand that i'm gonna have to get about 2 years of solid A work in order to be a remotely competitive candidate for med school.

However, the method in which I wish to obtain my 2 years of solid undergrad A work is what i'm having trouble with. While I'm not gonna be taking out loans for my undergrads, saving money would definitely be great. As of now, my options are either to either

A) reenroll at my 4 year university as second bachelor or non degree seeking student- the only problem with this is that I'm not guaranteed to get back in because of my low GPA.
B) Take the SFSU post bacc- Same problem, might not get accepted.
C) Take all my post bacc science courses at my CC- While my CC is ranked pretty high nationally, I'm worried about how this will look since of course, all the classes will be from a community college.

Based on your replies I'm starting to get the feeling that simply taking the required science courses won't cut it, but I might need a 2nd bachelors as well? In that case I would need to enroll in a biology major.
 
I appreciate the in depth replies.

As of now, money isn't an issue as i'm not taking out student loans, although saving money would definitely be of great benefit.

I understand that there's no quick solution to get into med school from a 2.5 in Psych, and I completely understand that i'm gonna have to get about 2 years of solid A work in order to be a remotely competitive candidate for med school.

However, the method in which I wish to obtain my 2 years of solid undergrad A work is what i'm having trouble with. While I'm not gonna be taking out loans for my undergrads, saving money would definitely be great. As of now, my options are either to either

A) reenroll at my 4 year university as second bachelor or non degree seeking student- the only problem with this is that I'm not guaranteed to get back in because of my low GPA.
B) Take the SFSU post bacc- Same problem, might not get accepted.
C) Take all my post bacc science courses at my CC- While my CC is ranked pretty high nationally, I'm worried about how this will look since of course, all the classes will be from a community college.

Based on your replies I'm starting to get the feeling that simply taking the required science courses won't cut it, but I might need a 2nd bachelors as well? In that case I would need to enroll in a biology major.
So A is your best option.

B isn't a good option and has been discussed by other people in this thread, and I concur. C is also not a good option - Midlife said take one or two classes to get back into the swing of things, not do all of your pre-reqs. Someone with a 2.5 cGPA from a 4-year, and all pre-reqs at a CC isn't going to face a massive uphill battle to get into med school - it will appear as your dropped down an academic level cos you couldnt cut it at a higher level.

A second bachelors gives you some enrollment benefits that you wont get as a DIY post-bac student.
 
Based on your replies I'm starting to get the feeling that simply taking the required science courses won't cut it, but I might need a 2nd bachelors as well?
I sure hope that's your understanding after you digested the responses above. I don't think you're taking this as seriously as your responders do. Your responders are in med school after recovering from low GPAs. You won't get any advice that comes close in quality to what you're getting here. You'd do well to study what's been provided to you here.
In that case I would need to enroll in a biology major.
Any science major that includes the med school prereqs will do. Chem, biochem, neuroscience, genetics, etc. Makes no difference what university you pick - you don't have to go back to your old undergrad.

But. Go find out if you can get an A in one class before you get excited about moving forward here. A couple (no more than a couple) of community college A's will help you get accepted to a 2nd bachelors.

You don't get to focus on what this will cost yet. You can think about that after you have a couple of A's in math/science and you're applying to schools to do a 2nd bachelors. I bolded something twice above for good reason: There is no quick, inexpensive or efficient way to get into med school from a 2.5. To put it another way, assume it's going to be slow, spendy and frustrating.
 
DrMidlife-

Your advice is really wise. I haven't graduated yet however, so I'm taking some upper level psych classes and am doing great (getting A's)

Although it seems like I'm the nonacademic type, i'm quite the contrary. Whatever I put my 100% into I can do well on. In the case of psychology, it first began with some personal issues like extreme social anxiety (skipped alot of class but i'm talking ages 18-19). After I got over my anxiety (like 20-21) I simply hadn't done enough research on grad school, and thought I could get by with just passing with C's and an above 2.0 GPA, had I actually had some guidance or guided myself at the beginning, I could have prevented this mess in the first place. No excuses though, I was more focused on my music career.

With all that being said and done. I'm gonna graduate with my post bacc after the fall semester. I'm getting A's in some upper level Psych classes and will be taking chemistry 101 the semester before graduation as a
"warmup" for general chemistry 1.

My only problem is that I might not be able to get into a school for my second bachelors degree, unless its my community college. SFSU takes 2.5 GPA's so it's atleast worth a shot to apply for. However, my chances of getting into any other 4 year university for a second bachelors degree might be low due to my below par GPA. I'm willing to give up my social life for this goal of mine (I don't mind studying all day for hours as long as I know I'm gonna get something out of it) Maybe starting my second bacc at my community college, then trying to transfer to a 4 year would be a wise idea (meaning starting with an associates in bio then moving to a bachelors). I'm just trying to pump out as little classes as possible i guess from the CC because i'd rather go to a 4 year. It might be my only solution, which is why i'm highly opting for SFSU because it's either SFSU or a CC. I'm gonna have to look around for some bio major programs.
 
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Why even ask if you're not interested in the answers. If you're so sure that a CC and SFSU are your options, then really, seriously, just go do whatever you want.

This thread: a TOTAL waste of keystrokes.
 
The answers have actually helped and I am interested in them. I was just trying to get some input from some experienced people. Thanks for your help so far guys.
 
CC and SFSU are your only two options?

You are a) delusional and b) effed if you take either of these routes.

As Midlife said, this a waste of time. Good luck to you
 
Honestly you're far more likely to get into an in-state college than SFSU's post-bac. An in-state school has more reason to take you (you're a resident) and they have a much higher acceptance rate, even for second bachelors. I don't know SFSU's acceptance rate, but lots of people get turned away. SFSU wants to accept as many people as they can like any post-bac (more income), but like most quality programs out there, they will only accept people they believe will have a strong chance to get into medical school (they want to keep their statistics up, just like any decent post-bac program). If you're really set on SFSU, e-mail their program director and ask for his insight. I e-mailed him when I was looking into post-bacs and he was very helpful.

One thing to also consider is that post-bac curriculums are not very rigorous--usually it's just two science courses at a time. This is because many post-bac students were non-science majors or so far removed from school they have a lot of difficulty managing two basic science courses at a time. Generally you just take gen chem, o-chem, physics, bio, and maybe biochem and/or calculus. That's not many classes to boost a GPA with.

A post-bac is really for people that already have an overall GPA close to what they will need to be competitive for medical school. My GPA was a 3.3 or 3.4 in undergrad and went up to a whopping 3.48 after getting a 3.8 in my post bac. I did improve my science GPA what I considered a good amount-- I think I went from a 3.2 to a 3.5 or something like that. I had quite a few extra units over the minimum from undergrad (both total and in the science/engineering realm), so that made my GPA increase more sluggish than most others, but that's something for you to really keep in mind--it takes a long time to bring up your GPA, even with all A's/A-'s. I only got up to a 3.5 (actually probably 3.48--didn't break the psychological barrier), which is below-average for medical school matriculants. I was fortunate enough to do extremely well on the MCAT and that probably made the world of difference in my application. But you won't know how you'll do on the MCAT until you've pretty much finished all your coursework, and you can't assume you'll do well on it just because you want to (every pre-med says they plan to "kill" the MCAT).

Just to rehash--a post-bac is really for people that just need a dedicated and structured program to take the pre-reqs for medical school, and maybe a modest boost in their science GPA. (Obviously if you have no science courses and get a 4.0 in a post-bac, then the "boost," or rather establishment of an sGPA, is more than modest). It is not a reliable way to boost your overall GPA, because if you do the math it just won't get boosted very much--you're not taking enough units as a post-bac.

If you were to re-do an entire four-year degree and get a 4.0, averaged with your 2.5, you now have a overall GPA of 3.25. That's well below the national average for MD/DO matriculants, though maybe you'd get the benefit of the doubt in that case because someone who manages to get a 4.0/near-4.0 when doing a second bachelor's probably really has matured/grown up, and proven that they can handle the rigors of medical school.

I really don't think SFSU has anything to offer you. The community college route (if you have to choose one over the other) is probably the better option--it's cheaper, it'll let you use DrMidlife's advice and start slow and make sure you can handle things, and then allow you to transfer to a four-year. But you should really apply to a four-year college. Illinois has plenty of in-state schools--apply to all of them. Especially your alma mater--that's probably your best shot. You won't know if you can't get in unless you try. And you can always appeal. And you can certainly e-mail your alma mater and ask them for advice.

Unless you establish residency in CA (takes at least one year, maybe even two in CA), SFSU just doesn't make sense to me. And even then I'd still recommend you do a second bachelor's in place of a post-bac (though you could at least get federal loans for the post-bac, so you in theory could go into that program, complete it, and then enroll in the second bachelor's program to take more units/potentially get another degree. That's the only way I see SFSU making sense--but in that case it's still really no better than going to an in-state school now (since you already have residency in IL) and just doing the second bachelor's now. Plus, you'll want to keep your Illinois residency so you have a better chance to get into IL schools (even the private schools have a Midwest bias).

Ultimately it's totally up to you what to do. But I really think the advice DrMidlife gave you above is spot-on about what you should be doing. While I'd love to say if you work hard enough and want it bad enough that you'll get in, the honest truth is that the odds are very much against you getting into medical school with your 2.5 GPA. The vast majority of people in a similar situation would not be able to pull it off, and I really think your best shot of getting in is taking DrMidlife's advice. I think it's still sort of a hail Mary, but if you get a near 4.0 (easier said than done) and apply pretty much everywhere (MD and DO--I agree to pass on the Caribbean as it's even more risky these days) then hopefully at least a few schools will look past what would still be a mediocre overall GPA and look at a (potentially) very strong second bachelor's GPA and science GPA.
 
A) reenroll at my 4 year university as second bachelor or non degree seeking student- the only problem with this is that I'm not guaranteed to get back in because of my low GPA.
B) Take the SFSU post bacc- Same problem, might not get accepted.
C) Take all my post bacc science courses at my CC- While my CC is ranked pretty high nationally, I'm worried about how this will look since of course, all the classes will be from a community college.

Based on your replies I'm starting to get the feeling that simply taking the required science courses won't cut it, but I might need a 2nd bachelors as well? In that case I would need to enroll in a biology major.

First, just throw out the "post bac." No reason to travel across the country for something that you might fail miserably in and waste that much more money. Stick with the CC. Some people don't have the advantage of only worrying about whether CC looks good or not and can only go there because it's affordable. CC is not a death sentence. It's a great way to test the waters. You have a 2.5 cGPA -- attending CC for a semester or two is the least of your worries.
 
My only problem is that I might not be able to get into a school for my second bachelors degree, unless its my community college. SFSU takes 2.5 GPA's so it's atleast worth a shot to apply for.

As someone who is currently 3.5 years into GPA redemption from a 2.7 undergrad GPA - I can tell you that the other posters are correct, going to a formal program won't help you at this point. I would recommend taking the CC classes for a year minimum, and seeing how you do.

And to reply to the quoted section - they may say they will take you at a 2.5 on paper, but it likely won't happen. Their applicant pool is competitive and it regarded on the west coast as one of the finer "career changer" post-bac programs.
 
Go learn about AACOMAS's retake policy.
 
I have to agree with everyone else. Starting with a few classes at a CC after you graduate and then going back to your school or another IL university for upper levels sounds like a better idea to me than dropping everything and moving to CA for that program.

Not to mention, I just made the move myself from IL to CA (I had no choice....) and everything here is much more difficult because the state is oversaturated with premeds. I can't even find an MCAT seat for any of the dates I want! IL still has plenty of seats for all of those days. Everyone on SDN always talks about how much harder it is to get into med schools here. If I were you, I'd for sure stay in IL.
 
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