Postdoc Reciprocal Offers

[me9898]

Does anyone have any knowledge on how postdoc reciprocal offers work? Thoughts on how to go about getting verified proof from the initial site that offered? I’m worried it will be evident that I am attempting to use them as leverage for another site.

Also, do you think it’s possible to ask for a reciprocal offer from a site you haven’t yet interviewed at?

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[tartar]

Hi there,
I don’t remember the process since I didn’t get to utilize the reciprocal offer in phase 1. In phase 2, they aren’t as strict regarding how to go about offers. For example, I interviewed at a VA site and they called me within 30 minutes with an offer and I asked them for an hour to make a decision. I then called my top VA site informing them that I had an offer from another VA and they wanted me to wait 5 days until they were done interviewing and they asked me to wait since I “was a top applicant” and I essentially told them I couldn’t and that I would be accepting the other VA position. I would encourage you to take the uniform notification day off from internship especially if you’ve applied to multiple sites. It can get very hectic getting phone calls and having to juggle offers. And for those who don’t secure a position in phase 1, last year Wayne Siegel sent out an email that same day with a link to view the unfilled positions, which had amazing sites! Best of luck

Does anyone have any knowledge on how postdoc reciprocal offers work? Thoughts on how to go about getting verified proof from the initial site that offered? I’m worried it will be evident that I am attempting to use them as leverage for another site.

Also, do you think it’s possible to ask for a reciprocal offer from a site you haven’t yet interviewed at?

 

[Kadhir]

Does anyone have any knowledge on how postdoc reciprocal offers work? Thoughts on how to go about getting verified proof from the initial site that offered? I’m worried it will be evident that I am attempting to use them as leverage for another site.

Also, do you think it’s possible to ask for a reciprocal offer from a site you haven’t yet interviewed at?

No one should be asking you for proof. They should believe you are ethical. If not, you should bid that site good day and move on.

You can contact sites higher on your list you haven't interviewed at and see if there's anything they can do. If you're a top applicant and they've been looking forward to interview you, they may move things around and get you in earlier. It's not common, but it has happened. Always acknowledge the burden you are placing on the site while asking them to understand the difficult position you are in.

 

[ellenew]

No one should be asking you for proof. They should believe you are ethical. If not, you should bid that site good day and move on.

You can contact sites higher on your list you haven't interviewed at and see if there's anything they can do. If you're a top applicant and they've been looking forward to interview you, they may move things around and get you in earlier. It's not common, but it has happened. Always acknowledge the burden you are placing on the site while asking them to understand the difficult position you are in.

An email sent out on a listserve about reciprocal offers made it seem like you will need proof of the offer to request a reciprocal offer. It doesn't seem like they would be questioning if we are ethical, IMO.

 

[Kadhir]

An email sent out on a listserve about reciprocal offers made it seem like you will need proof of the offer to request a reciprocal offer. It doesn't seem like they would be questioning if we are ethical, IMO.

If they require proof, then they would clearly be questioning the veracity of your report. I have never heard of a site requesting this (that is not to say it has not happened to people- I don't know). But no, I don't believe you need proof to initially make the request of a reciprocal offer. I don't understand how this is even enforceable since, by and large, offers are made over a phone call.

 

[szymk1sm]

My question is specific to neuropsych postdocs:

Let's say you have 3 programs - 1 and 2 are match (you rank them 1 & 2) and the 3rd is non-match.

My understanding is that match programs can say something along the lines of: 1) If you rank us number 1, you will match here (you're their #1); 2) If you rank us number 1, it is highly likely you will match here (you're a top candidate, just not #1), or 3) if you rank us number 1, it is unlikely you will match here (not a top candidate).

Program 3 gives you an offer, so you contact Program 1. They essentially indicate that you may match there, but are not their number 1.

Can you then contact Program 2 to see where you stand or do you have to make a decision between taking Program 3's offer or chancing the match?

I know you're not supposed to contact all of your programs to see where you stand, but if you know that you would prefer either of the match programs over the non-match and Program 1 doesn't guarantee your match, can you then query Program 2 (to potentially see if you should change your rank of them to #1)?

Thanks!

 

[psyched2graduate]

My question is specific to neuropsych postdocs:

Let's say you have 3 programs - 1 and 2 are match (you rank them 1 & 2) and the 3rd is non-match.

My understanding is that match programs can say something along the lines of: 1) If you rank us number 1, you will match here (you're their #1); 2) If you rank us number 1, it is highly likely you will match here (you're a top candidate, just not #1), or 3) if you rank us number 1, it is unlikely you will match here (not a top candidate).

Program 3 gives you an offer, so you contact Program 1. They essentially indicate that you may match there, but are not their number 1.

Can you then contact Program 2 to see where you stand or do you have to make a decision between taking Program 3's offer or chancing the match?

I know you're not supposed to contact all of your programs to see where you stand, but if you know that you would prefer either of the match programs over the non-match and Program 1 doesn't guarantee your match, can you then query Program 2 (to potentially see if you should change your rank of them to #1)?

Thanks!

***edited*** Just realized your post pertains to the neuropsych match, so I am even less sure of the answer. Sorry about that, and best of luck!

Based on the APPA CAS rules, I don't think you would be allowed to contact program 2 in this situation. My understanding is that reaching out to a site with an offer in hand should only be done if you're prepared to accept a reciprocal offer on the spot. It can get really tricky when one of the programs in the running isn't participating in the "match." I'm also unclear about what program 1 would be allowed to do in this situation if they cannot immediately extend an offer. I've heard stories about TDs extending an offer to their #1 in response to someone further down requesting a reciprocal offer, but I'm not sure if this is standard procedure or if other TDs would wait until match day. I would encourage program 1 to provide as clear of a timeline estimate as possible.

 

[Kadhir]

My question is specific to neuropsych postdocs:

Let's say you have 3 programs - 1 and 2 are match (you rank them 1 & 2) and the 3rd is non-match.

My understanding is that match programs can say something along the lines of: 1) If you rank us number 1, you will match here (you're their #1); 2) If you rank us number 1, it is highly likely you will match here (you're a top candidate, just not #1), or 3) if you rank us number 1, it is unlikely you will match here (not a top candidate).

Program 3 gives you an offer, so you contact Program 1. They essentially indicate that you may match there, but are not their number 1.

Can you then contact Program 2 to see where you stand or do you have to make a decision between taking Program 3's offer or chancing the match?

I know you're not supposed to contact all of your programs to see where you stand, but if you know that you would prefer either of the match programs over the non-match and Program 1 doesn't guarantee your match, can you then query Program 2 (to potentially see if you should change your rank of them to #1)?

Thanks!

They technically cannot say #1 unless you ask them, although one did say I would be ranked #1 or #2 upon completion of my interview (oh, the rogues!). They CAN say you are a top candidate (see #4 at https://natmatch.com/appcnmat/documents/policies.pdfsite for exact language- sites use this language basically verbatim).

My understanding is that you could contact site 2 if site 1 gives you an ambiguous response. BUT site 2 must be higher on your preferred list than the non-match site (sounds like it is). If you have questions about this, though, the best thing to do would be to contact APPCN and clarify.

 

[coldcutcombo]

My question is specific to neuropsych postdocs:

Let's say you have 3 programs - 1 and 2 are match (you rank them 1 & 2) and the 3rd is non-match.

My understanding is that match programs can say something along the lines of: 1) If you rank us number 1, you will match here (you're their #1); 2) If you rank us number 1, it is highly likely you will match here (you're a top candidate, just not #1), or 3) if you rank us number 1, it is unlikely you will match here (not a top candidate).

Program 3 gives you an offer, so you contact Program 1. They essentially indicate that you may match there, but are not their number 1.

Can you then contact Program 2 to see where you stand or do you have to make a decision between taking Program 3's offer or chancing the match?

I know you're not supposed to contact all of your programs to see where you stand, but if you know that you would prefer either of the match programs over the non-match and Program 1 doesn't guarantee your match, can you then query Program 2 (to potentially see if you should change your rank of them to #1)?

Thanks!

My understanding is, and there's a slight chance that I may be wrong, but neuropsych postdocs don't need to abide by the limit of only contacting one other site for counter-offers that non-neuro folks have to ascribe to.

 

[WisNeuro]

My understanding is, and there's a slight chance that I may be wrong, but neuropsych postdocs don't need to abide by the limit of only contacting one other site for counter-offers that non-neuro folks have to ascribe to.

From APPCN

If I receive an offer from a program that is not participating in the match, what should I do?

First, you need to consider how you would rate this program among the other programs. Make a list and determine whether you have sufficient information at the stage of the process to make your decision.

1. If you are not ready to make a decision or are not interested in the non-participating program, thank them for their interest and tell them you are remaining in the match due to your interest in other programs.
2. If you are interested in the non-participating program, but you are interested in other programs as well, tell the non-participating program the following:
   1. You are participating in the APPCN Match and are interested in other programs as well as the non-participating program.
   2. You have included the non-participating program in your rating list, and you will not rank programs that you are not as interested in as highly as theirs, if they commit to holding your offer until after the Match results are announced. In this situation, you are encouraged to get their commitment in writing. In this option your best interests are served as you are able to consider all training opportunities according to your true preferences.
   3. You may contact the program director of your preferred program. In this situation, the applicant can approach their number one rank site and inform them that they are the preferred site but that they have received an offer from their second choice program that is not participating in the match. The program director can tell you if they plan to rank you high enough to match with them if you were to rank them first. Therefore, if you have received an offer outside of and before the match, we encourage you to contact your preferred program(s) that are participating in the match and inform them of your situation.
3. If the offer is from your most preferred program, you may accept the offer and withdraw from the match if it is prior to the day to submit your rank order list. If you have submitted a Rank Order List, you are bound to respect the results of the match and there can be professional consequences to you as the site you are matched with will not have a resident if you withdraw at this time.

 

[psych7259]

Anyone ever ask for a reciprocal offer and not get one (non-neuro). Curious about what that experience is like.