postdoc salary?

[solitude]

so I was complaining about my MSTP stipend (27K/yr in San Fran) and a postdoc in my lab said that he only makes 24K. 24K in San Francisco for a 4th-year postdoc in an HHMI lab! This strikes me as outrageous. He said that if he had a fellowship then he would make more, but he also said that his friend in another HHMI lab makes even less. Is this really true? I thought NIH had rules about postdoc salary, and I would think that HHMI - which is so generous with PI salaries (reportedly 300K+) and equipment - would be so stingy to postdocs. That has to be below minimum wage for someone working long hours.

And somebody please tell me that a clinical fellow in his/her research years makes much more than this?

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[strangeglove]

My understanding is that all salaries, including postdoc, grad student and faculty, are determined by the university. In that case, being in an HHMI funded lab wouldn't increase the expectation of having a higher salary.

 

[RxnMan]

My understanding is that all salaries, including postdoc, grad student and faculty, are determined by the university. In that case, being in an HHMI funded lab wouldn't increase the expectation of having a higher salary.

A rule of thumb for residencies, fellowships, and post-docs: as prestige increases, wages decrease.

 

[solitude]

A rule of thumb for residencies, fellowships, and post-docs: as prestige increases, wages decrease.

ok fair enough, but 24K? That's a travesty!

 

[RxnMan]

ok fair enough, but 24K? That's a travesty!

I agree. Most of post-graduate academia is.

All snarkiness aside, given that it's a post-doc in a nice place to live during a poor economy and poor funding levels, with the real effect of lab/institutional prestige (i.e., there are 50 people waiting to replace this guy if he asks for a raise), I'm not surprised.

Kinda makes you wonder where the term "hungry" came from.

 

[solitude]

I agree. Most of post-graduate academia is.

All snarkiness aside, given that it's a post-doc in a nice place to live during a poor economy and poor funding levels, with the real effect of lab/institutional prestige (i.e., there are 50 people waiting to replace this guy if he asks for a raise), I'm not surprised.

Kinda makes you wonder where the term "hungry" came from.

Yeah I guess you're right. Is this standard?

And do MD/PhD clinical fellows in the research years of their fellowship make this amount?

 

[malchik]

No, in most cases you are still paid the same amount as a clinical PGY-x.

 

[RxnMan]

Yeah I guess you're right. Is this standard?

And do MD/PhD clinical fellows in the research years of their fellowship make this amount?

I've seen clinical fellows, MD/PhDs or otherwise, make everything from continuing on the resident pay scale (i.e. PGY-x as above) or something like half-attending salary (~70k+, sometimes a faculty position and bennies). It depends on the place.

 

[Neuronix]

http://graduate.ucsf.edu/postdocs/postdoc-administrators-pis/faq

Given UCSF's position, I'm not clear how it's possible the postdocs could make so little. The only thing I can think is that they forced this postdoc to take a job title other than post-doc. It is unethical, forbidden by UCSF in that provided link, and I wonder if the institution would take action if they knew this was going on. Unfortunately, the post-docs themselves are most likely to suffer from any action taken against the PI. Frankly, I'm scared for you solitude and I hope you don't get screwed in your own lab as well.

When I worked as a post-doc, the institution forced a minimum salary of NIH minimum post-doc salary (based on years of PGY as NIH recommends) plus benefits. My investigations of "Fellow" pay vs. "Post-doc" pay is that they tend to be identical for number of PGY years except Fellow tends to about 10k more. In other words, PGY-7 clinical fellow is making on the order of 60k/year. It's kind of pathetic for 8 years of education (8 if MD, 12 if MD/PhD) plus 6 years of apprenticeship. I don't know a single high school dropout in my family or among my friends who makes that little by the age of 30 (most by 25). But, that's our screwy system.

 

[solitude]

http://graduate.ucsf.edu/postdocs/postdoc-administrators-pis/faq

Given UCSF's position, I'm not clear how it's possible the postdocs could make so little. The only thing I can think is that they forced this postdoc to take a job title other than post-doc. It is unethical, forbidden by UCSF in that provided link, and I wonder if the institution would take action if they knew this was going on. Unfortunately, the post-docs themselves are most likely to suffer from any action taken against the PI. Frankly, I'm scared for you solitude and I hope you don't get screwed in your own lab as well.

When I worked as a post-doc, the institution forced a minimum salary of NIH minimum post-doc salary (based on years of PGY as NIH recommends) plus benefits. My investigations of "Fellow" pay vs. "Post-doc" pay is that they tend to be identical for number of PGY years except Fellow tends to about 10k more. In other words, PGY-7 clinical fellow is making on the order of 60k/year. It's kind of pathetic for 8 years of education (8 if MD, 12 if MD/PhD) plus 6 years of apprenticeship. I don't know a single high school dropout in my family or among my friends who makes that little by the age of 30 (most by 25). But, that's our screwy system.

interesting Neuronix--thanks for the info! Don't worry, it's just a rotation lab, so I'm not stuck here. I am trying to gather all of the information I can, and when I see stuff like this I wonder about PI abuse. Perhaps the PI has gotten around these rules because the postdoc is employed by HHMI and not by UCSF?

 

[Ariodant]

Not to mention that there's a proposed 6-8% pay cut for postdocs at all UCs.

 

[docbill]

interesting Neuronix--thanks for the info! Don't worry, it's just a rotation lab, so I'm not stuck here. I am trying to gather all of the information I can, and when I see stuff like this I wonder about PI abuse. Perhaps the PI has gotten around these rules because the postdoc is employed by HHMI and not by UCSF?

Is this person a real post-doc or not a real post-doc. Did he do PhD in the US recently and is still doing post-doc or is he MD grad from abroad who is in the US to do something while trying to get residency? The cases may be different. Doesn't HHMI have regulation on pay as well?

PI abuse in research!!! NEVER HAPPENS. 🙄