Practical Speciatlies

[drboris]

I know we have discussed various specialties ad nauseum, however I would like to pose a semi-new question out there.

I, as do most people, try to get the most bang for my buck. So if we rank priorities in the following manner what are some fields that would be rewarding and satisfying. Let's not just discuss derm, ent because those are very competitive to match into. Let's mention more realistic and "practical" enjoyable specialties.

Please don't start lecturing on how we will be doctors and there is a higher responsibility, etc etc. Yeah I know, but we have only one life to live and I plan on enjoying mine, while at the same time contributing to society and helping people. Even doctors in lifestyle specialties who make crazy $$ help people more than any other non-medical profession, so I please don't lecture.

Priorities:

1) Lifestyle
2) $$$$$
3) Helping others
4) Not being bored

I think doing 6 years of res/fell is a very long time (too many years to give up b4 actually starting real doctor life), so if anybody has any thoughts on which specialties are less overwhelming and consuming eventually in the real world (private practice), feel free to chime in.

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[wooo]

the best non-competitive fields (in my opinion):

1. anesthesiology
2. pathology
3. medicine+allergy or rheumatology or GI

 

[Lara]

Allergy and GI are very competitive IM fellowships - don't go into medicine counting on them.

Agreed with anesthesia - you're basically golden after 4 years, and just one more for say a peds fellowship. Plus it's attainable for the average student. I wouldn't go into gas without genuinely enjoying it though, and that goes double for path!!!

 

[wooo]

allergy and GI are not that easy to get, but compared to Derm, ENT, Optho, Urology and Rads there are not too difficult either.

 

[Lonestar]

1. Anesthesiology (best bang for the buck for the average joe)
2. Radiology (#2 b/c its harder to get into and also requires a lot of reading)
3. everything else thats nice in medicine (not much)

P.S. Happiest docs i saw in the hospital were hands down the people in the #1 and #2 positions (I have rotated at several hospitals in medical school). 300K+ salaries with tons of vacation time can make anyone happy. Both fields have the least bull$hit to deal with in medicine. Go figure.

 

[fuegofrio17]

--PM&R

--"Run" an urgent care clinic or two. Hire PA's to see the patients and handle/reap the business side of it.

 

[Chronotropic]

Gas and Rads are always good. Although lately I've heard that Rads isn't as cush as everyone makes it out to be. And Gas can be pretty stressful at times.

PM&R is another choice although some may consider it boring.

I've heard conflicting thigns about $ and pathology. Although if you have a genuine interest in path it can satisfy all your other criteria.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Pathology

but i'm biased.

 

[NinerNiner999]

EM - the highest paid specialty per hour worked, a schedule as flexible as you want to make it, hands on real patient care, tons of procedures, and shifts that fly by. Then again, I guess I'm biased too...

 

[14022]

I can't believe what I am reading.

Radiology- They get pissed when you turn on a light on the view box in the reading room. It is like they turn into Gremlins or something. I couldn't imagine something more boring than this.

Gas- They sit all day too, but in a well lit room staring at a monitor of vital signs. Sure they do a lot of procedures (which makes it slightly more interesting than radiology) but it could never make up for all the time being a second class citizen in the OR.

ER- primary care for poor people. enough said.

What happened to enjoying what you do for a living, rather than money and lifestyle.

 

[ears]

You can make any specialty (or any job, for that matter) sound boring and tedious and completely unappetizing.

Besides which, plenty of radiologists and anesthesiologists and ER docs truly do enjoy what they do for a living. If those specialties are not for you, that's OK. But "lifestyle" isn't the only reason people are attracted to them.

 

[NinerNiner999]

What happened to enjoying what you do for a living, rather than money and lifestyle.

I love what I do for a living and I get the benefit of great pay AND great lifestyle. By the tone of your post, maybe you should find something to make you as happy...

 

[14022]

First of all, relax. My "tone" was one of sarcasm, not malice.

Secondly, I was responding to the OP who stated his top two priorities in order as lifestyle and money. It annoys me to hear all my fellow classmates as well as people on this forum discuss their future plans and base one of the biggest decisions of their life on these two factors. I think it is foolish to work so hard for so many years to give up what you really want to do because "they work too hard" or "I have expensive taste." I can't tell you how many times I have heard people talk say something to the effect of "I would love cardiology, but they work too damn hard," or "how could someone want to be a pediatrician...they will never make over $150,000." If money and lifestyle were a person's top priorities, I have no idea why they would choose medicine. Just my opinion. If you're offended, I apologize.

 

[ears]

I agree with the thrust of your argument. People who put those factors at the top of their list are probably headed for unhappiness.

FWIW, I think this is especially true in radiology (my chosen field), since I think that both income and lifestyle are probably worsening for most working radiologists. Many knowledgable observers expect those declines to accelerate over the next few years. And I think that could hold true for other specialties that are currently perceived as "lifestyle" as well; if payors decide to de-value the service you provide, your life is going to change. Those interested in the "lifestyle" specialties should certainly ask themselves, "Would I still be interested in this field if I had to work harder for less?"

You seem angry at those who are putting lifestyle factors at the top of their priority list. Personally, I'm not angry at them. At the risk of sounding condescending, I feel a little bad for them. Either they're throwing away a field they really love, or nothing in medicine particularly excited them (which I find unbelievable). In either case, they're heading into a career they don't feel passionately about.

The thing is, that might be OK for some people. They view the role of their career in their life differently than I would view mine. (Which is fine. You could certainly argue that my view is pathological; sometimes I think so myself.) But they're gambling a lot of their future happiness that the ways that doctors currently work and get paid will stay the same. And recent history suggests that's not a great bet.

 

[14022]

Excellent post. I "hear" what you are saying.

I am not angry at people for choosing these fields based on these factors. I am angry at those people who are choosing these fields AND look at others choosing more demanding/less lucrative fields as somehow missing out on something. It is like they believe that they some tremendous foresight that my feeble brain could not possibly comprehend.

 

[drboris]

I think it is we have to be very practical and therefore, pessemistic, when choosing a specialty. I don't know about you guys but medicine is not going to be the only important thing in my life. I want to have a family, friends, hobbies, and actually experience the rest of the world. I want to have time to explore life and enjoy myself. If I am always stuck in the office or hospital, or on call then how can I possibly be happy.

I think that being passionate about your job is not really possible unless you are not $$$ driven. In other words, first you have to make a lot of money to the point where you are not worried about making more, then you can do whatever you want with your time, help who ever you want, and do it however you want to. People who go into fields that they are passionate about might be a bit idealistic. Nowadays, not all doctors still make crazy $$, and all the years that we give up in our lives are never made up if we have to work harder as attendings b/c we are trying to establish our practice or because we are already 33yrs old and all our friends have families and are already established. In addition, most patients are noncompliant and we are not miracle workers. To be bitched at by patients while they count our money (because they still think we are doctors...of course we are rich), and then have to worry about beauracratic BS and overhead....what the hell for!!

Don't get me wrong, I really want to help people, but I want to help my family and me first. I think we all have to put ourselves as a priority because b4 you can take care of other people you really have to take care of yourself.

I think lifestyle and $$ are very important because if either one is lacking you will not be happy, and bitterness easily shows. Your patients will see it and you will not be the best doctor you can be. You can't save the world by yourself, so just do your part but take care of yourself first!

What do you guys think of EM, Heme-Onc, GI, EM-IM, PMR?

 

[14022]

I think lifestyle and $$ are very important because if either one is lacking you will not be happy, and bitterness easily shows.

I do not think you could be further from reality. If you are making a great salary and working 4 days a week, you are going to be miserable unless you are doing something you enjoy. As you mentioned, patients can be difficult, beurocracy is at its worst, but this is the case with all specialties, regardless of the money and lifestyle (some more than others but all specialties have their headaches). If you cannot go to work and enjoy what you are doing, your "bitterness" will easily show, because the only thing you are going to be thinking about is how you cannot wait to finish your seven hour work day so you can go out and spend all your money.

 

[Sanman]

Well,
I believe that this discussion has generalized a bit into job priorities, so I'll weigh in. I think that you are both right and wrong in your own ways. Yes liking your job is important and so is lifestyle/income. The way reality works is not generally that you love neurosurg and hate hate derm. In reality, people would more likely be in the position of perhaps enjoying gen surg and maybe liking EM a little less. Is the loss of lifestyle worth the difference in enjoyment? Thats a personal issue. It doesn't mean that you will hate EM if you choose that as your career. Remember that life is a balancing act and we all make decisions. Some we regret others we do not. Personally, were I in that situation I would choose EM, the reason being that as much as I enjoy what I will eventually do, I have a variety of interests and can't be satisfied by throwing my self into a single thing, which is necessary if you want to enjoy a truly demanding career in the long run.

 

[LADoc00]

Pathology

but i'm biased.

He's joking. Pathology sucks, choose Anesth. or Rads or Derm. All solid choices, with good lifestyles and you wont contribute to overcrowding.

 

[typeB-md]

First of all, relax. My "tone" was one of sarcasm, not malice.

Secondly, I was responding to the OP who stated his top two priorities in order as lifestyle and money. It annoys me to hear all my fellow classmates as well as people on this forum discuss their future plans and base one of the biggest decisions of their life on these two factors. I think it is foolish to work so hard for so many years to give up what you really want to do because "they work too hard" or "I have expensive taste." I can't tell you how many times I have heard people talk say something to the effect of "I would love cardiology, but they work too damn hard," or "how could someone want to be a pediatrician...they will never make over $150,000." If money and lifestyle were a person's top priorities, I have no idea why they would choose medicine. Just my opinion. If you're offended, I apologize.

i wish i could punch you in your stupid, pedantic face. if you're offended, i apologize.

most people in medicine tend to have interests in science/health care. just because you happen to like something doesn't mean you have to ONLY like/do that one thing.

it's ignorance like yours that leads to the "i am a servant and anyone else doing medicine for any other reason than the reward of saving lives and making a difference is a waste of space." You are no more important than the millionaire plastic surgeon out in Beverly Hills. You are not more important than the EM physician who competes in Iron Men or Skis 60 days out of the season. You are no more important than the Anesthesiologist who coaches his son's soccer team. You are not going to make more of a difference than the Dermatologist who removes melanomas and then drives off in his e55 mercedes.

i wonder what kind of doctor you're going to be if you're always judging other people. there is no "right" reason to go into medicine. if you do your job well, who cares what you do outside of it. And like i said if these individuals were totally heartless and/or didn't have an interest in science related fields, there are plenty of other options.

If you aren't going to do pro bono work for poor urban communities, then i don't want to hear from you. Why not spend your life in africa where you can impact many more lives than here in teh states?

it sounds to me like you are bitter. bitter about what, i don't really know. maybe you were picked on as a child by someone who had rich physician parents. Whatever the reason is, you have no excuse to pass judgement on others while acting like you are a humble servant of man.

Everyone is different and it seems that you can't understand that.

 

[typeB-md]

I do not think you could be further from reality. If you are making a great salary and working 4 days a week, you are going to be miserable unless you are doing something you enjoy. As you mentioned, patients can be difficult, beurocracy is at its worst, but this is the case with all specialties, regardless of the money and lifestyle (some more than others but all specialties have their headaches). If you cannot go to work and enjoy what you are doing, your "bitterness" will easily show, because the only thing you are going to be thinking about is how you cannot wait to finish your seven hour work day so you can go out and spend all your money.

Oh, we have some more precious gems of wisdom... hold on a second.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard people talk say something to the effect of "I would love cardiology, but they work too damn hard," or "how could someone want to be a pediatrician...they will never make over $150,000." If money and lifestyle were a person's top priorities, I have no idea why they would choose medicine.

I am strongly considering going into a peds specialty, such as cards, picu, nephrology. My only concern is the salary. I have heard starting salary for cards at CHOP and Boston Children's is ~$90,000 and up to $120-130k at other academic programs.

Before I commit to peds, I would like to know which routes I can take to make a decent salary and be financially stable.

I still cannot get that salary website to work. If someone is having more luck, could they please post the median salary for peds cards in the midwest? Thanks!

Man, i just can't stand people who go into medicine for money. How can anyone be so shallow as to want to make $$ instead of just going with their calling?!

Here's some more insight into your personality...

I am afraid that if I do an elective at a top program that I may tarnish the way I look on paper. I perform well on the wards, but it is at an average program with average students.

It seems you are one of those types that will only do something if you know it can be 100% completed. I also like how you pride your top of the class status yet don't want to be take on the real challenge of doing a rotation that's not inflated. You probably are a complete jerk as well as socially not altogether. Your hipocrisy is so laughable that i find it hard to believe you post the crap you do.

Why don't you cut out the "i posted 240 on step 1 and am at teh top my class, and i know everything about life since all i do is study and did i mention taht i'm at the top of my class"

kudos on your scores, but don't think for a second that if most people put in the time they'd be right up there... same goes for top of teh class. you also need to realize that you are not smarter than anyone else because you study more.

get a life and cut out the act.

 

[Lonestar]

Dr. Boris,

Here's what i think about the specialties you wanted to know about.
(Disclaimer: this is coming from an intern who has followed quite a few specialtists in private practice during medical school)

EM -- good hours and good pay. 200-350K. Not for me b/c of the following reasons: Lots of non-emergency BS comes into the ER. about 10-20% actual emergencies. The type of people that come into the ER can be hard to handle (ie poor drunks, crack ******, etc). VERY BUSY in those 8-12 hr shifts you do. HIGH BURNOUT rate because of this. I couldn't see myself doing this when I am 45 years old.

GI --- Best specialty to practice in private practice. However gotta do a lot of colonoscopies. GOOD PAY (250-400K) and decent hours 55-65. REQUIRES 3 yrs Inernal medicine plus 3 years fellowship in GI medicine-- total of 6 years (An absolute no-no in my book). VERY competitive to get into once you start residency (meaning continue to kiss other people's butt to get into the fellowship).

Heme-onc -- GOOD Pay and decent hours 55-65. Have to deal with end of life issues and a lot of pain issues that people really do not think about. VERY DEPRESSING WORK in my opinion. I wouldnot have been happy with myself if i had to do this for the rest of my life.

PMR --- Very cush in terms of lifestyle (close to pathology); however, not very good pay (when compared to other specialties).

Again, let me reiterate this for you: if you want to cut, then you know what to do. IF not, then anesthesia and rads are by FAR the best specialties for people looking for lifestyle and money. PROS of both fields: minimal pt contact, NO ROUNDING, flexible scheduling, expert in a particular field (unlike EM), tons of vacation weeks in private practice (7-12+), phenomenal locum tenems pay of 1500+ dollars/day (8 hr day), get to play around with cool gadgets, life gets much sweeter in private practice, and most important of all -- common shared belief of "hakuna matata". I would much rather be that "second rate" guy in the OR sitting in a chair than the other dude in the OR who barely has time for his family. My family and my interests are my priority. Hope this helps.

 

[drboris]

thanks Lonestar...out of curiosity, what specialty did you choose?

 

[Lonestar]

I picked anesthesia eventually.

 

[Mirror Form]

I agree with the thrust of your argument. People who put those factors at the top of their list are probably headed for unhappiness.

You have it backward. The reality is that people who don't take lifestyle into account are the ones who are headed for unhappiness (income is a factor, but much less so IMO). Get your head out and look around. Is there a single hospital in the entire country where overworked general surgeons are happier then the ophthalmologists?

I have a lot of friends who are all pysched for gen surg. It doesn't matter how much they like it, they aren't going to be happy when they don't have any time for their friends or families. I'm sorry, but doing lap chole's does not make up for having no personal life. I was fortunate enough to get into a field that I love, but that also has a good lifestyle. A few of my gen surg buddies gave me flack about ophthalmologists not being "real surgeons." I can't wait to laugh my a$$ of while I'm chilling on the beach and they're working every holiday and getting divorced.

 

[Fro]

personally there's not one thing about derm that I wouldn't like, but it wasn't gonna happen
path is also up there but most pathologists are as crazy as radiologists

since when is anesth so easy to get into? Seems to be everyone is applying to gas these days so I doubt its not competitive

 

[14022]

i wish i could punch you in your stupid, pedantic face. if you're offended, i apologize.

it's ignorance like yours that leads to the "i am a servant and anyone else doing medicine for any other reason than the reward of saving lives and making a difference is a waste of space." You are no more important than the millionaire plastic surgeon out in Beverly Hills. You are not more important than the EM physician who competes in Iron Men or Skis 60 days out of the season. You are no more important than the Anesthesiologist who coaches his son's soccer team. You are not going to make more of a difference than the Dermatologist who removes melanomas and then drives off in his e55 mercedes.

I am the jerk? You're physically threatening an anonymous person. You can hit me of you want. But you might break either your hand or the computer monitor screen.

I never said money and lifestyle were not important. I understand that they are very important. I, like anybody, want to make as much money as I can and work as little as possible, (now listen up ) as long as I am doing what I enjoy. What I said was that the person who chooses his living based solely on these two factors is headed to a life of unhappiness.

God bless the dermatologists who remove the melanomas. I would never want to do it. But if you ask two dermatologists whether they love melanoma or they just love their e55 mercedes, the one who loves the melanoma is going to be happier with their career choice.

You call me the hypocrite? You self-proclaim yourself as "type B" when you waste your time meticulously browsing through all of my previous posts just to expose this anonymous person for the fraud he is. The funny thing is, I may be someone in your class that you really like. It just goes to show how mapping out someone's life history based on a few anonymous posts is a very difficult task. Nonetheless, you have accurately done so. I am the person who got beat up by Dr. 90210, the millionare plastic surgeon on the E! channel, in a tae kwon do match. And I am getting my revenge on Student Doctor Network.

 

[bigfrank]

Does anyone else notice that type"B"-md's posts are quite ironic? To me, they have more of a Type "A" tone.

 

[typeB-md]

You call me the hypocrite? You self-proclaim yourself as "type B" when you waste your time meticulously browsing through all of my previous posts just to expose this anonymous person for the fraud he is. The funny thing is, I may be someone in your class that you really like. It just goes to show how mapping out someone's life history based on a few anonymous posts is a very difficult task. Nonetheless, you have accurately done so. I am the person who got beat up by Dr. 90210, the millionare plastic surgeon on the E! channel, in a tae kwon do match. And I am getting my revenge on Student Doctor Network.

i wasted my time because it was worth it to show how so many students like yourself (the real type A bunch... you know, study all day and night and don't share those old exams, nor accept challenges for new life adventures) are really full of crap. you all preach how noble and knowledgeable you are, and in reality, you are just as full of crap as those that you point out.

and admit it, it looks pretty ridiculous when see the crap you put out compared to the 'legitimate concerns' you have.

the problem lies in the fact that you think your good grades in school translate into wisdom. yes you are good at medical school, but that doesn't make you an expert in the medical field. you need to stop spouting off your stupidit and go back to studying... apparently you're better at that.

and it takes a certain level of 'typeA' just not the level of douche that you've achieved.

 

[typeB-md]

Does anyone else notice that type"B"-md's posts are quite ironic? To me, they have more of a Type "A" tone.

you must be the master of the obvious. you've decrypted the puzzle inside of the enigma.

 

[14022]

you need to stop spouting off your stupidit and go back to studying... apparently you're better at that

Where is all this hostility coming from? Why are you hating on all the overachievers? Are you one of those people who cannot put in the effort to do well and get pissed at all of the other people who work their butts off to do well, thereby making you look worse? Who taught you that hard work and achievement is somehow a personality flaw?

and it takes a certain level of 'typeA' just not the level of douche that you've achieved.

How do you achieve a "level of douche?" And how are levels of douche even quantified? Please enlighten me more of your insightfulness.

 

[typeB-md]

Where is all this hostility coming from? Why are you hating on all the overachievers? Are you one of those people who cannot put in the effort to do well and get pissed at all of the other people who work their butts off to do well, thereby making you look worse? Who taught you that hard work and achievement is somehow a personality flaw?




How do you achieve a "level of douche?" And how are levels of douche even quantified? Please enlighten me more of your insightfulness.

i'm not hating on anyone who does well. doing well and working hard are great traits, and no one should ever be ashamed of them. i'm hating on people who think that doing well entitles them to be dickheads to other people.

i don't care what other people do around me. if you want to study 10 hours a day and do well, that's awesome, and you'll probably make a great doctor. but the reality of it is, how well you do in medical school is most strongly correlated with how much time you put in studying. i know you probably think that others think you're so smart, and it maybe a possible reason that you act the level of "douche" that you do, but the reality is that most others are not very concerned with how well or poorly you do.

i've seen your type of personality rampant among college students. you're probably not the most innately gifted person, which is many times the case. you probably were picked on as a kid throughout primary and secondary schooling, and now you can "show all those big-bullies who the real loser is." And since you have studied very hard and worked very hard, you think you can persuade others that you're an expert in all fields of life, and that you are a sage. you do not know everything, so stop treating other people in the condescending manner that you do. especially when you are such a hipocrite.

 

[kungfufishing]

I dont know (or care) which one of you is smarter, but neither of you can spell.

 

[MAC10]

FYI anesthesiology is the bestasis..

Lifestyle, Lifestyle, Lifesyle

Lifestyle=money, free time, family, freedom to live anywhere and have a job, enough money to do what ever you want and the free time with which to do it.


If you dont belive me wait until you are a intern and you are around the other depraved souls
Intern year opens ALOT of peoples eyes...it aint med school anymore

If you still dont believe me wait till you are a resident and you see your collegues that have seen the light, running (or creeping) to other specialties

If you still dont believe me wait till you become a bitter [insert whatever non lifestyle field here] That means you too pediatrics..i know PLENTY of you


BTW this second class citizen will be all the way to the bank!

 

[Lonestar]

MAC 10 has it right on. Lifestyle means not only money but the ability to continue to do the job until you are very old (thats what makes it a career). Unlike EM (many folks retire in their 50s), Anesthesia like radiology is one of the few fields where you can have your cake and eat it (meaning long lived career with plenty of time to travel, play golf 2-3 times per week, go watch plenty of movies whenever you want, have a vacation home, and come home everyday with a sense of accomplishment, and realize at the end that it was all worth it).

 

[abcde]

I know plenty of old radoncs and ophthos that still practice, spend mucho time with fam, and have mucho dinero.

 

[notatriagenurse]

EM, on average, works the least number of hrs./week of all specialties but don't make, on average, anywhere close to highest $/hr worked. I believe Ortho Spine or Ophtho Retina makes the most $/hr worked. I'm sure Anesthesia, RadOnc, Derm, Path, Plastics, and many others make more than EM per hour worked.
In EM, you work hard, play hard, and hope you save enough $ for retirement as it is early (by 50's) compared to other specialties.
Still I picked EM (it's true love baby) even though it might not be the best "lifestyle" specialty in most people's books.

 

[TripleDegree]

I do not think you could be further from reality. If you are making a great salary and working 4 days a week, you are going to be miserable unless you are doing something you enjoy. As you mentioned, patients can be difficult, beurocracy is at its worst, but this is the case with all specialties, regardless of the money and lifestyle (some more than others but all specialties have their headaches). If you cannot go to work and enjoy what you are doing, your "bitterness" will easily show, because the only thing you are going to be thinking about is how you cannot wait to finish your seven hour work day so you can go out and spend all your money.

I think you are the one who is furthest from reality. There is no such thing as the "dream job" - and all of us have to make compromises in our work. Having a big fat check makes some of those sacrifices seem worthwhile. I know an radiologist making north of $700K - who told me that he started off his residency/practice full of euphoria - got a bit bored/disillusioned after a whlie - but when the money started rolling in, he is back to being motivated and enjoying his job. Go figure.

Those who downplay the importance of money and lifestyle in the life of a human being, should probably don a saffron robe and go meditate on the top of Mount Everest, you'd be happiest there.

 

[LADoc00]

FYI anesthesiology is the bestasis..

WTF, Anesth. has HUGE disadvantages compared to many other fields. Try things like a lifetime of call and huge medicolegal risks for starters. Also things like the financial impact of NAs and surgical cost cutting measures on the horizon. Anesthesia was the crown prince at one point (like the 80s) but I would say its fallen and cant get up now. Not bad, but no where near the best. Try something like rad onc.

 

[GMO2003]

i'm not hating on anyone who does well. doing well and working hard are great traits, and no one should ever be ashamed of them. i'm hating on people who think that doing well entitles them to be dickheads to other people.

i don't care what other people do around me. if you want to study 10 hours a day and do well, that's awesome, and you'll probably make a great doctor. but the reality of it is, how well you do in medical school is most strongly correlated with how much time you put in studying. i know you probably think that others think you're so smart, and it maybe a possible reason that you act the level of "douche" that you do, but the reality is that most others are not very concerned with how well or poorly you do.

i've seen your type of personality rampant among college students. you're probably not the most innately gifted person, which is many times the case. you probably were picked on as a kid throughout primary and secondary schooling, and now you can "show all those big-bullies who the real loser is." And since you have studied very hard and worked very hard, you think you can persuade others that you're an expert in all fields of life, and that you are a sage. you do not know everything, so stop treating other people in the condescending manner that you do. especially when you are such a hipocrite.

you need to relax and take a nice deep breath...goose fraba...I'm so pretty oh so pretty..I'm so pretty as pretty can be

 

[NinerNiner999]

EM, on average, works the least number of hrs./week of all specialties but don't make, on average, anywhere close to highest $/hr worked.

By average salary surveys for compensation and average hours worked:

Field / Average Salary / Average Hours worked per year / rate per hour

EM / $210,000 / 1400 (32/wk) / $150
Anesthesia / $300,000 / 2880 (65/wk) / $104
Ortho / $280,000 / 3120 (70/wk) / $89
Radiology / $260,000 / 2400 (54/wk) / $108
Dermatology / $250,000 / 2400 (54/wk) / $108

All salaries are net before taxes and all hours are based on 11 month/year given standard 4 weeks of vacation allowance. Sources: AMA salary surveys and Medical Economics compensation reports.

So, given that EM works ABOUT 1/2 the hours of other "top dollar" specialties and given that there is more free time to work an extra shift at average $150/hr, that means we can make the same average salary of any of the above specialties and STILL work less hours per year and NEVER take call...

 

[notatriagenurse]

By average salary surveys for compensation and average hours worked:

Field / Average Salary / Average Hours worked per year / rate per hour

EM / $210,000 / 1400 (32/wk) / $150
Anesthesia / $300,000 / 2880 (65/wk) / $104
Ortho / $280,000 / 3120 (70/wk) / $89
Radiology / $260,000 / 2400 (54/wk) / $108
Dermatology / $250,000 / 2400 (54/wk) / $108

All salaries are net before taxes and all hours are based on 11 month/year given standard 4 weeks of vacation allowance. Sources: AMA salary surveys and Medical Economics compensation reports.

So, given that EM works ABOUT 1/2 the hours of other "top dollar" specialties and given that there is more free time to work an extra shift at average $150/hr, that means we can make the same average salary of any of the above specialties and STILL work less hours per year and NEVER take call...

NinerNiner999, what year is this based and can you give me the link? Are there stats for subspecialties like Ortho Spine or Ophtho Retina which I think makes the most per hour?? thanks man I guess I'm wrong on this one based on your stats from AMA. Another perk about EM...what can i say?

 

[scootad.]

that data seems a bit off. derms work closer to 40 hrs than 54.

 

[14022]

wow typeb-md...i did a little research of my own and you seem to be as classy in other forums as you are in this one...it seems to me that you are going to be quite the physician

you scored 15th percentile on the practice and wondered why you failed teh real one? are you joking?

it's not a doctors job to worry about these types of things when there are real things (such as diagnosing an illness) to worry about. if you cant hear, that's not a doctor's problem, that's your own.

and i'd also like to add... i'll make up a b.s. excuse as to why i can't take on a patient

ah, i see you suffer from small-pen0s syndrome. you know, always worrying about what other people are doing. quick to pass judgement without being asked your opinion. not that it matters, i mean, it probably fits in your pants really nicely.

how is this different from what you do?


this one is my favorite

yea, definitely beats out the 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical school, 7 years of 80+ hour work-weeks during residency.

i couldn't even imagine how much harder it is to be a stay at home mom.

it is like a paid vacation. you sit at home and do housekeeping while your SO brings home the $$. then you take the $$ and spend it while your SO goes back to work. Seems like it works for me.

Not to mention that once the kids are older, your role is less.. which means more free time.

it is immensely important that a child have a very good upbrining. the fact that you women have inferiority complexes about it says a lot. and i bet men are probably even better suited to stay at home because they aren't emotionally unstable. a man wouldn't cry like a &itch just because the kids left...

i hope you are gay because there would be nothing more upsetting to me than knowing that some woman out there is putting up with you

The ADHD crowd is just a bunch of pill-poppers like any other drug addict. Why not take some speed while we're at it... a little cocaine perhaps?

thank god this whole thing is anonymous and i will never have the misfortune of actually knowing you

 

[MAC10]

WTF, Anesth. has HUGE disadvantages compared to many other fields. Try things like a lifetime of call and huge medicolegal risks for starters. Also things like the financial impact of NAs and surgical cost cutting measures on the horizon. Anesthesia was the crown prince at one point (like the 80s) but I would say its fallen and cant get up now. Not bad, but no where near the best. Try something like rad onc.

WTF are you talking about. Lifetime of call??? Yeah you may start off that way but there are other options if call bothers you that much, outpatient surgery, plastics, pain, join a large goup and take 3 calls a month or none in some cases. Besides call in private practice is not hardcore, I dont know one anesthesiolgist that does not take call from home, and how often do you think they actually get called in???? Do you really think those are sleepless nights? If you want to go work for a hosptial you may get called more but its still not bad, the anesthesiologists who work for our VAMC supervises 6 CRNAs/shift I always see them around laughing, joking, at their desk looking busy, but I only seen one in the OR ONCE when there was a code in the OR. OH the torture, your right anesthesiology just sucks.!CRNA's.. yeah they have a GREAT finanical impact mo $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in my pocket. But you are right Anesthesiology is no where near the best, the best would be winning the LOTTO ..not Rad onc. Hope you are happy in your field i know i will be

 

[USAF MD '05]

Quote:
Originally Posted by typeB-md
yea, definitely beats out the 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical school, 7 years of 80+ hour work-weeks during residency.

i couldn't even imagine how much harder it is to be a stay at home mom.

it is like a paid vacation. you sit at home and do housekeeping while your SO brings home the $$. then you take the $$ and spend it while your SO goes back to work. Seems like it works for me.

Not to mention that once the kids are older, your role is less.. which means more free time.

it is immensely important that a child have a very good upbrining. the fact that you women have inferiority complexes about it says a lot. and i bet men are probably even better suited to stay at home because they aren't emotionally unstable. a man wouldn't cry like a &itch just because the kids left...

Oh my God. I think my wife (whose DREAM is to be a SAHM to our kids but can't, as she is sacrificing for me) would kick my ass for even reading this quote, on the off chance that I might agree. Do you have kids, type-B?
I have two, and let me tell you- I was a SAHD for 2 months between college and medical school. The women who do that job, and do it well deserve your AWE, a$$hole . I am very good at some things, but that is one thing that I could not do long term. I long for the day that my wife can stay home. She, and more importantly, my kids will be infinitely better for it. You are obviously a short-sighted, self-centered, money-hungry, piece of crap. I would love to see the attitudes your kids have about women. Assuming, of course, that some woman doesn't cut off your manhood when she figures out what you are. Have a lovely day. For a good high, take a 60cc syringe of KCL and inject into your AC fossa. Let us know how it feels.

Steve

Sorry guys- I know this quote wasn't originally in the thread, and probably should be ignored, but stuff like that makes my blood boil.

 

[banner]

Hey guys...

The idea that physicians actually enjoy their work is pretty much a fantasy. I have met only two that truly do. I have met so many who would never choose medicine if they had to do it over.

I love the phrase that's constantly thrown around "I didn't work so hard and invest so much to do something that I don't enjoy".

If you picked this lousy field to go into, statistically, you won't enjoy any subdivision of it. Sorry to break it to you, all your sacrifice was based on a myth.

So, you might as well go for the money and lifestyle, and slowly work your way out of the swamp.

 

[endodoc]

the best non-competitive fields (in my opinion):

1. anesthesiology
2. pathology
3. medicine+allergy or rheumatology or GI

I am not sure where you heard that GI is non competitive.... You may want to look into that again. GI is one o the hardest subs of IM.

 

[threepeas]

I know we have discussed various specialties ad nauseum, however I would like to pose a semi-new question out there.

I, as do most people, try to get the most bang for my buck. So if we rank priorities in the following manner what are some fields that would be rewarding and satisfying. Let's not just discuss derm, ent because those are very competitive to match into. Let's mention more realistic and "practical" enjoyable specialties.

Please don't start lecturing on how we will be doctors and there is a higher responsibility, etc etc. Yeah I know, but we have only one life to live and I plan on enjoying mine, while at the same time contributing to society and helping people. Even doctors in lifestyle specialties who make crazy $$ help people more than any other non-medical profession, so I please don't lecture.

Priorities:

1) Lifestyle
2) $$$$$
3) Helping others
4) Not being bored

I think doing 6 years of res/fell is a very long time (too many years to give up b4 actually starting real doctor life), so if anybody has any thoughts on which specialties are less overwhelming and consuming eventually in the real world (private practice), feel free to chime in.

Times are tough for physicians these days, and threads such as these show that. Back in the day, all physicians made enormous denairo and retired between 50-55yo. They drove the nicest autos, lived in the biggest homes, and commanded much respect. Do you think they worried about lifestyle, versus job satisfaction, versus $$$$. No, they all had it all. Not so anymore, and that's ok to a point. We are all stressed because we are investing alot of time, money, heart, and soul into a career and we are really worried about what it is going to be like out there. We dont have faith in the profession giving back to the brightest minds of our generation what we think we deserve. We do see passion and compassion, but we also see giving so much of ourselves to this profession and being charged for it (loans, malpractice, lawsuits).
So here is some general advice. Put yourself in a position (outside of academic medicine if necessary) to spend time with someone who loves his job, his life, or both. A Hem/onc or OB/Gyn doc may be away from their family and working hard but you may see a passion for their jobs that inspires you. You may be alongside a EM doc who is simply happy with both his job and life. He may not call his work a vocation but it may be satisfying in a variety of ways that suits him. Look at the people who are unhappy and find out why. They may be the problem not there career choice. Maybe they went into medicine for the wrong reasons. Dont be afraid to ask. Search out who you identify with and the reasons for it and go from there.
When we start our training we think practicing medicine is the s**t, but then we see the down side of things and we start to run for cover. Try and remember the most important reason you went into medicine and let that guide you in your decision.
There is nothing worse than going to a job that doesn't inspire you for some reason on some level. Your unhappiness (eventhough you may be in a lucrative field with good lifesyle) will carry over into your personal life and slowly you will be lost and wondering how I got to this point. The reverse is true also. Dont pick a field that consumes you in such a way that you cant give to those who love you the most (wife, kids, next of kin). Do what gives you that "burn", that challenges you, inspires you.
Life is a balance, and right now our generation is realizing that the committment of medicine without all those wonderful perks is quite physically, mentally, and emotionally challenging.
So hopefully we will choose the vocation of medicine over the vacations, but if we are lucky we can have both. But never choose the vacations over the vocation because you can do that in any job and you shouldn't be taking a spot at med school or residency that another person with the right priorities and maturity could use.
I am doing EM because it has variety, procedures, good hours and good pay. Also, I have always liked the EM docs and nurses on a personal level too, which makes the overall work experience great. I also like being a patient advocate.
That is all...

 

[14022]

The idea that physicians actually enjoy their work is pretty much a fantasy. I have met only two that truly do.

That's funny. I met more than two today who truly love their job. I feel sorry for you if you truly meant what you said.