Practice on Unconscious Patients?

[ExPsychonaut]

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Hey there, I'm new to these forums! I was just interested in sharing a link I found that bothered me. I am wondering how true this is. Pelvic Exams On Anesthetized Women.

Has anyone here had to do one? Did you school do anything similar? Or, as I hope, is this just a rare event you've never had to do?

 

[NontradICUdoc]

Never once was I asked to do such a thing. It is un-ethical and if you think about it, maybe the student can be charged with sexual assault? I do not know, I am not a lawyer.

In fact, during my ob/gyn rotation, if you did not introduce yourself to the patient and ask for permission to be in the room during the delivery prior to her going into stage II, then you were not even allowed in the room.

And while for males it is harder, most of the time if you ask nicely and are very professional, the patients will allow you to be a part of their care.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I have a feeling this was blown out of proportion and it was an exam under anesthesia (common in OBGYN) and they let the med student do it as well.

 

[cyclohexanol]

Besides being creepy, it draws into question the quality of that particular OB/Gyn rotation. During my rotation as a 3rd year, there would be absolutely no need to 'practice' on anesthetized patients. We were doing 15-20 pelvics a day on awake patients, and didn't really need any extra 'practice'.

 

[BobBarker]

They are just talking about a bimanual exam under anesthesia. I think the most I've seen perform one is 4 residents/students. Its extremely common nationwide. They aren't talking about doing a speculum exam..

 

[Antibodies]

There was a huge discussion about this on the Pre-MD forum.

 

[engineeredout]

Are all women who are put under general anesthesia in a hospital practiced on by students while unconscious?
All women in the OB/GYN department at most teaching hospitals and hospitals affiliated with a medical school are. If you're anesthetized and you're in the OB/GYN department, you probably have had students practice pelvic exams on you regardless of what you're in the hospital for - even if the procedure you need doesn't require a pelvic exam!
Additionally, while doctors don't go to other departments — such as general surgery patients, neurosurgery patients or cardiac surgery patients — if your surgeon is an OB/GYN, odds are there's going to be a team of hungry medical students waiting for you to fall asleep.

Not paranoid at all.

 

[dermpathdoc]

Hey there, I'm new to these forums! I was just interested in sharing a link I found that bothered me. I am wondering how true this is. Pelvic Exams On Anesthetized Women.

Has anyone here had to do one? Did you school do anything similar? Or, as I hope, is this just a rare event you've never had to do?

This is something was done in way back in the 60's and 70's of the last century..(God that makes me OLD)
it is no longer considered ethical unless prior consent was obtained before the patient was anesthetized. If it is done and someone squeals....then those involved and the hospital as well as the medical school associated with the student who did the exam can all be sued for multimillion dollars..

if you are a student presented with such a situation and you are unsure of consent status..JUST SAY NO

 

[HarMegido]

It is not unethical. A medical student is still considered a healthcare worker and assisting the physician; if anything, we are double checking the physician's work or the physician will be there to double check ours, therefore having someone back your findings is considered excellent patient care. If you are getting care at a renowned learning institution, then that is just that, a learning institution. Teaching hospitals provide excellent care to patients, but is the agreement that the patient will be used to teach students...if you have a problem with this, you can just go sit in the library pretending you know clinical medicine.

 

[peppy]

A lot of things happen in teaching institutions that don't directly benefit the patients that students are practicing on. Is it wrong for med students to practice intubations on anesthetized patients that didn't specifically give their consent for a student to have first crack at it? Is it wrong for brand new interns to have patients' lives in their hands on call nights even though a green intern may very well make a deadly mistake on call?

Perhaps it should be made more clear to patients upon admission to academic centers that bumbling med students will probably be bothering them during their hospitalization, but I don't agree with the slant that blog puts on things, like doctors are all lying and sadistic people who are just groping women for kicks.