Practicing abroad

[Sowthpaw4]

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Just out of curiosity, for those international dentists. If I get my dds degree here, and decide i want to practice for a while in europe or the UK, anyone know how that works. How do the dental systems work? Salary? qualifications?

 

[EuroOMFS]

Just out of curiosity, for those international dentists. If I get my dds degree here, and decide i want to practice for a while in europe or the UK, anyone know how that works. How do the dental systems work? Salary? qualifications?

Countries in Europe are generally more lenient then states in the US, when it comes to accepting foreign dental degrees, with some exceptions, of course. The working conditions for dentists vary widely, and I can tell what I know:

The UK has it's GDC (General Dental Council) which you can visit at http://www.gdc-uk.org. They require some foreign dentists to pass a test before granting them a licence and you can find out on this site if that applies to you. I don't think US graduates will have to take the test. I didn't, my DDS is from Iceland (called cand.odont. there).

The UK has what some call a "double" system. The NHS (National Health Service) is a government insurance system. People who sign up for cover by the NHS must register with a dentist that accepts NHS patients and can get their dental treatment there for a minimal fee. The NHS then pays the dentist the rest of the fee. The dentist also gets an annual payment for each registered patient, for which he must provide some minimal service without charging the patient.
Sounds good? Well it's not. The fees payed by the NHS are rediculously low. If you decide on going to the UK, do not, I repeat do dot work in a practice that accepts NHS patients. You'll be seeing, and treating, 40 patients pr. day, with 30 min. for a root canal on a molar, 15 min. for a 2 surface amalgam in a molar and so on. I'd advise you to get a job in private practice where the patients are "private" (ie. not NHS). You'll be able to make some decent money and be able to live with yourself.

In Scandinavian countries the market is a little crowded for dentists, unless you're willing to live in the more rural areas. There you can really make money. The taxes in the Nordic countries are generally higher then in the US, sometimes much higher, but they pay for a good health care system with equal access for everyone, (no, or very little, private health insurance), good day-care possibilities, good social services etc.

In the Nordic countries, children, the elderly and sometimes army veterans, get free, or very cheap dentistry. These are usually provided at state-run clinics with salaried dentists. The pay is OK, but the big bucks are in private practice. In private practice there is usually no, or very little, state provided- or private health insurance involved. The dentist determines his own fee, and most make good money. You could also take a look at this

I have no personal experience with Germany, but I've heard they have a system not unlike the one in the UK, but with more flexibility, so you can work professionally and still make a decent living. There are some very strange competition-hindering laws in the German dental sector, but I really don't know enough to tell you more about them.

I can only encourage you to go abroad to work for a couple of years after you've finished your education. I really is a live-changing move.

Hope this helps.

 

[NileBDS]

Countries in Europe are generally more lenient then states in the US, when it comes to accepting foreign dental degrees, with some exceptions, of course. The working conditions for dentists vary widely, and I can tell what I know:

The UK has it's GDC (General Dental Council) which you can visit at http://www.gdc-uk.org. They require some foreign dentists to pass a test before granting them a licence and you can find out on this site if that applies to you. I don't think US graduates will have to take the test. I didn't, my DDS is from Iceland (called cand.odont. there).

The UK has what some call a "double" system. The NHS (National Health Service) is a government insurance system. People who sign up for cover by the NHS must register with a dentist that accepts NHS patients and can get their dental treatment there for a minimal fee. The NHS then pays the dentist the rest of the fee. The dentist also gets an annual payment for each registered patient, for which he must provide some minimal service without charging the patient.
Sounds good? Well it's not. The fees payed by the NHS are rediculously low. If you decide on going to the UK, do not, I repeat do dot work in a practice that accepts NHS patients. You'll be seeing, and treating, 40 patients pr. day, with 30 min. for a root canal on a molar, 15 min. for a 2 surface amalgam in a molar and so on. I'd advise you to get a job in private practice where the patients are "private" (ie. not NHS). You'll be able to make some decent money and be able to live with yourself.

In Scandinavian countries the market is a little crowded for dentists, unless you're willing to live in the more rural areas. There you can really make money. The taxes in the Nordic countries are generally higher then in the US, sometimes much higher, but they pay for a good health care system with equal access for everyone, (no, or very little, private health insurance), good day-care possibilities, good social services etc.

In the Nordic countries, children, the elderly and sometimes army veterans, get free, or very cheap dentistry. These are usually provided at state-run clinics with salaried dentists. The pay is OK, but the big bucks are in private practice. In private practice there is usually no, or very little, state provided- or private health insurance involved. The dentist determines his own fee, and most make good money. You could also take a look at this

I have no personal experience with Germany, but I've heard they have a system not unlike the one in the UK, but with more flexibility, so you can work professionally and still make a decent living. There are some very strange competition-hindering laws in the German dental sector, but I really don't know enough to tell you more about them.

I can only encourage you to go abroad to work for a couple of years after you've finished your education. I really is a live-changing move.

Hope this helps.

Wow. Very informative.
Thanks for the insight Euro.

 

[Sowthpaw4]

thank you very much, very good information. the countries i'd think about practicing in are most likely the UK, or france, where my mother lives. ill take all that info into account.

 

[ca_dreamin']

thank you very much, very good information. the countries i'd think about practicing in are most likely the UK, or france, where my mother lives. ill take all that info into account.

I could be wrong, but I was told that you needed to also have an MD to practice in France. Does anyone else have more info on that?

 

[mayoree]

France and Italy require a DDS and an MD to practice dentistry. Take a look at this link: http://www.dent.unc.edu/careers/career_options/internationaldent.htm
Its where I found just about all the information I could on practicing dentistry outside of the US. Good luck.

 

[kambis]

I don't have an answer to your question, but am about to move to Germany with my husband's work and also need to figure how to work as a dentist while there. If you find out anymore useful info, please post! I would also be interested in doing a pedo residency, but am doubtful that it would be possible in another country, though I am fluent in German.

Thanks,
kambis

 

[olafo]

EEA = EU+Norway, Iceland, Switzerland

Most EEA countries will require tests for non-EEA dentists, many, including Norway and Denmark, will require some form of residency, more often than not unpaid. In Norway you do this either at one of the two dental schools or through the public health service:

http://www.uib.no/odfa/studier/Undervisning/kvalifiseringsprogrammet/Lisensprogrammet_index.htm (in Norwegian)

When it comes to practicing in the UK or France I would probably recommend the UK. Salaries are better(private practice owners averages at around £100000) and the demand for dentists is very high. In addition getting accredited is definitely easier in the UK. The French have a tendency of never fully accepting foreign diplomas, whatever field.

I would also like to mention that it is incorrect that Italian and French dentists still all have MDs. Italy was the last western European country to end this practice(to specialize in Dentistry after the "Laurea Specialistica in Medicina"). I think the first dental school in Italy opened up in the mid-eighties, until then it was always a part of the medical schools. From the University of Verona website:

http://www.univr.it/main?ent=offerta&fac=7&tcs=SU&lang=en

And here is a link for the 7th university of Paris, medicine and dentistry(Odontologie) are completely seperate, as is easily seen:

http://www.sigu7.jussieu.fr/formation/ListeMED.php

Now, all this being said... Many EU countries have made it easier to get the necessary work/residency permits for specialised professionals such as dentists, so if you don't mind the tests/residency bit you should be cruising!

 

[olafo]

And yeah... residency, or specialisation, is not a viable option for most foreigners. This is due to the fact that speciality programmes in Europe, like most universities, are financed by the nation governments and thereby they will most likely favour own citizens first. I know that in Norway they see if the applicant hails from and area underserved by certain specialities, if so he/she will have a better standing than someone from a major city with several specialists, all else equal. Of course if you would carefully choose to marry a spouse from the right area I guess you could improve your chances!

However, the UK might different as you pay your way(or at least make a significant contribution) through university. I would be surprised if it afterwards were not possible to practice in another EU country relatively easily(EU/EEA rules of reciprocal recognition of specialities).

Salarywise I know of Orthodontists in Norway who have had a taxable income of up to $1000000. But the state takes around 50% and the cost of living is higher than in the US.

A lot of info on a country none seem particularly interested in practicing in, but it gives an impression at least!