Practicing Physician and MD/PhD degree

[z786]

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hi everyone I'm sure this question has been asked several times before but I haven't been able to glean a clear response from all the debates.
I'm deciding between applying mostly MD/PhD or not so i just wanted to clarify a few things. I want to go in to cardiothoracic surgery (thats the plan) and I absolutely love research. Is there anyway that I can do my residency after completing MD/PhD and still be a practicing surgeon, maybe with an emphasis of 60/40 (surgery/research) or is it almost mostly academic medicine or pharm or careers in that area?
Thanks for any input I would love to decide and be done with it, I can't seem to make up my mind 😕

 

[Picklesali]

Surgery is not the "traditional" path of an MD/PhD, however it has been done before. The main concern is that surgeons (legally) require a lot more clinical hours to keep up their skills and this takes away from research. I know Phy-Sci's who have been able to do this AND have competitive research, but I think that is probably the exception rather than the rule. The real question is, will you be able to do surgery and keep doing enough good science to be competitive for grants? Personally, I think the best solution is to team up with a PhD only researcher.

 

[z786]

wow thanks so much that was very clear haha much like the light at the end of the tunnel clear. I think I'm going to go with the MSTP route which is what i've been leaning towards for the past year I just wanted to know if there is a way to do both and do it well. Even though I've done research for over 3 years now it just never clicked with me that I wanted to do it as a career until recently. Thanks! good luck this year

 

[CCLCMer]

hi everyone I'm sure this question has been asked several times before but I haven't been able to glean a clear response from all the debates.
I'm deciding between applying mostly MD/PhD or not so i just wanted to clarify a few things. I want to go in to cardiothoracic surgery (thats the plan) and I absolutely love research. Is there anyway that I can do my residency after completing MD/PhD and still be a practicing surgeon, maybe with an emphasis of 60/40 (surgery/research) or is it almost mostly academic medicine or pharm or careers in that area?
Thanks for any input I would love to decide and be done with it, I can't seem to make up my mind 😕

One thing you should consider is that you might change your mind about what you want to do once you get to med school. Like, you could come in wanting to be a cardiothoracic surgeon and end up as a psychiatrist. It happens. BUT, if you're absolutely sure that you want to be a cardiothoracic surgeon and do research, you should look into Case Western's MSTP and also CCLCM, which is a five year research MD offered by Case and the Cleveland Clinic. Cleveland Clinic specializes in cardiac everything, including clinical research in cardiothoracic surgery. I'm not really interested in doing surgery or cardio anything as a career, but I spent last summer here in the cardiac ORs doing research for my clinical research rotation, and it was awesome. (It's pretty hard not to get all gung-ho about cardiac medicine and surgery when you're at the Cleveland Clinic!) If you were planning to apply to Case anyway, all you have to do to apply here also is check a box on the secondary. It won't cost any extra money or require any more essays even. If you did end up going to the Case MSTP, you could still rotate at the Clinic and do your research here if you wanted to. Just some other options to think about.

 

[j-weezy]

hi everyone I'm sure this question has been asked several times before but I haven't been able to glean a clear response from all the debates.
I'm deciding between applying mostly MD/PhD or not so i just wanted to clarify a few things. I want to go in to cardiothoracic surgery (thats the plan) and I absolutely love research. Is there anyway that I can do my residency after completing MD/PhD and still be a practicing surgeon, maybe with an emphasis of 60/40 (surgery/research) or is it almost mostly academic medicine or pharm or careers in that area?
Thanks for any input I would love to decide and be done with it, I can't seem to make up my mind 😕

After meeting MD/PhD surgeons you basically have no life outside of your job (and occasionally family) - the general consensus is that if you want to be a PI and get the big R01-type grants you need to spend 70% of time (minimum?) in the lab pumping out papers and grant applications....you also need to spend a ton of time in clinic honing your surgical skills so in the words of a recent interviewer you need to spend 70% of your time in the lab and 60% of your time in the hospital....so yeah

I'm not saying it isn't possible (i've actually met about 3 or 4 who have been successful) but it's by no means going to be easy

 

[gstrub]

I'll tell you what you want to hear:


Do the MD/PhD and save the $250k+ in tuition.
Use the PhD time to apply for a F30 fellowship from the NIH and get it, which is HUGE on a CV.
Then apply to any major academic institution in the country and you will match provided you aren't a total loser/a-hole. They will love you.
Then later (post CTS fellowship), you can run your own lab if you choose (the PhD will give you more clout amongst the scientific community), but you can have people working under you to do all the hard stuff...you can spend all your time in the OR if you like, but you'd better spend at least 60% of your time there or you will become sloppy.

 

[z786]

Thank you so much everyone for all you input.
To CCLCMer, I will definitely look into the program you spoke about. I was actually going to apply to Case MSTP but I'm thinking of taking a year off and apply next summer instead of this so I'll have more time to research programs and the like.

About the having a life problem haha ive actually thought about that a lot, its hard enough having a life and a family as a surgeon, I dont think for a minute its going to be any easier at all with lab and surgery both. Especially since I do want a family and kids and all that nice stuff haha not in the near future but eventually.

To gstrub, your post was very helpful. At least I know it can be done. I dont think I'm willing to give up MSTP for straight med route (unless I dont get in MSTP anywhere), so I'm excited that there are actually options available to do both and be successful at it. Thanks for the info you gave i needed it.

 

[167649]

One thing you should consider is that you might change your mind about what you want to do once you get to med school. Like, you could come in wanting to be a cardiothoracic surgeon and end up as a psychiatrist. It happens. BUT, if you're absolutely sure that you want to be a cardiothoracic surgeon and do research, you should look into Case Western's MSTP and also CCLCM, which is a five year research MD offered by Case and the Cleveland Clinic. Cleveland Clinic specializes in cardiac everything, including clinical research in cardiothoracic surgery. I'm not really interested in doing surgery or cardio anything as a career, but I spent last summer here in the cardiac ORs doing research for my clinical research rotation, and it was awesome. (It's pretty hard not to get all gung-ho about cardiac medicine and surgery when you're at the Cleveland Clinic!) If you were planning to apply to Case anyway, all you have to do to apply here also is check a box on the secondary. It won't cost any extra money or require any more essays even. If you did end up going to the Case MSTP, you could still rotate at the Clinic and do your research here if you wanted to. Just some other options to think about.

Doing some PR work for Lerner are you CCLCMer? Haha JK!

Actually, for the OP's situation I think a "Research heavy" MD might be the best route. Lerner is a fine example, it is almost like a hybrid traditional MD/MSTP program. You get excellent research training without the 7 year time commitment of an MSTP. And of course as said the CC is the best cardiac hospital in all the land. But there are plenty of MD programs that incorporate or offer the opportunity to incorporate a lot of research.