pre-emptively contacting programs given concern over screening?

[comet122]

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I'm in a bit of a pickle and wanted to know what you guys think. I've applied to a good range of IM programs across the board. I have a strong application: aoa at a good school, all honors both preclinical and clinical years and decent research with three posters and a pub, and i have strong lors and dean's letter. Unfortunately, I got a 223 on step 1, which I know is an average score. While I boosted that to 240 on step 2, I have not received a single interview invite, even though many others both on sdn and my school have, particularly at the mid-tier and below schools. I am concerned that the lower-tier schools will think i won't come and therefore won't invite me to interview, while the high-tier programs won't actually look at my application because I am under their cutoff for step 1. do you guys think I should pro-actively contact top-tier programs at the end of October if I still don't hear back in order to ask them if they have a cutoff and, if so, to look at my application in full?

 

[thecampuslegend]

How many programs did you apply to in total and are you looking west coast vs. east coast? I find it hard to believe that you've had zero invites so far - your numbers are great for IM. I'm also applying IM allo, but I come from a DO school and haven't had as much difficulty as it seems you are having.

I would have to assume there is something lacking in your application. Is there anything you think your app is weak in? I know for me, my app is weak in research as in I have no research experience, but I do have solid extracurricular activities. Also, did you spend enough time formulating your PS? Just asking questions to see what could stand out as a red flag.

I'm not sure if it would be an excellent idea on contacting programs to see where you stand...to me that would reek of calling a girl to whom you gave your number to a month ago to see whether or not she was thinking about going out with you. If they haven't extended an invite in the next month, I can't see them having a sudden change of heart. But who know's, maybe aPD can give some more insight on to this. Best of luck.

 

[comet122]

Thanks for your reply 🙂 I applied to 30 in total all east coast from new hampshire to florida, from the very best to middle and lower-tier schools that I was told would be "safeties" for me. But now these same "safeties" are inviting other students from my program but I have not heard from anywhere.

To be honest I don't know what is lacking. My writers were all really positive in their evaluation. I saw my dean's letter and it was strong. My PS was reviewed by all letter writers and my advisors who all said it was a strong PS. I don't have the research portfolio of the MD/PhDs, but I have a decent amount of research. I've been trying to find the red flag as well, and a fellow student of mine suggested that it may be because I'm being filtered out by the high-tier programs because of my step 1, and the low-tiers don't want to waste the IV if they think I won't come.

I understand what you're saying about contacting the programs. I wouldn't really be contacting the programs to see where I stand, but simply asking them to take a second look at the app in full if I indeed had been screened out because of the step 1 score.

 

[thecampuslegend]

Well east coast programs are an entity unknown to me, so I won't try to wax poetically like I know what in the world goes on over on that side of the world. It could be that your friend is right, that theory does make sense - but I guess if I was in your boat, I would be getting a little antsy as well. In the overall picture, it wouldn't hurt contacting the programs...by that time they may have already made their decision, but what do you really have to lose? Either they say ok and take a second look or they don't - at least your mind will be at ease that you put forth a good effort.

 

[duckie99]

I think you are right to worry some (even though it is still early) as it seems lots of IM programs have already sent out lots of interviews. You may have overestimated how competitive you are. Regardless however even if you totally discount my advice I do think you will eventually get your interviews.


Having said that:

1. What kind of med school do you go to (makes a huge difference imo)? Top vs mid vs low tier. What location are you now and is this in conjunction with where you are applying? Did you apply to your home program?

2. My advice is to apply to more mid tier programs asap. And by that I mean programs in less desirable areas as well (further west if you have to). You applied to 30 places. Is the breakdown 15 top places, 10 mid and 5 low? In any case it probably should have been 3-5 top, 20 mid, and 3-5 safeties. Are the "mid tier" programs in desirable locations such as the NE (that makes them much more competitive)?

Also, I don't think your app sounds like top tier material. Yeah you got the aoa (different selection process between schools though) and research but your board scores aren't very impressive. At top tier programs you are competing with students from top med schools with all the same stuff you have but also great board scores. It is possible you made the wait list at many schools though.

I think that if a majority of the programs you have applied to are listed on the interview invite thread already and you have yet to get a single interview at this point you may want to start applying to more programs. It doesn't sound like there is one glaring red flag just based on your descriptions. If you don't have an interview anywhere by the end of this coming week you should definitely add more programs.

I do not think you should contact the programs. Work with your deans office to review where you applied, tell them your current situation, and ask if you should apply to more programs and what those programs could be. You could also ask them to call the schools to find the status of your app. Honestly though I don't think contacting the programs will make any difference. If they have a filter it essentially means that under no circumstances do they want a resident below that score because they would have more than enough to pick from above said score (though I find it only possible that maybe only the best of the best programs would set their filter above your step 1).

 

[woeiru]

Granted, I don't know exactly where you applied, but I find it difficult to believe that there is not a single program that has a cutoff lower than 223 while not considering you way out of their league. At the risk of sounding demeaning, if you're certain there are no major red flags, have you checked ADTS to make sure that everything has submitted appropriately?

 

[sunset823]

I agree with the others on this thread. My step 1 is quite a bit lower than yours and due to scheduling issues I've not even taken step 2 yet (will be this month), but I've already had plenty of offers, mostly in the midwest, where I'm from and go to school, but also a couple from solid programs on the east coast. There must be some other underlying red flag, cuz it's not your numbers preventing you from getting an invite.

I think my first step would be to talk to your home program and see if they saw any deficiencies in your app. I think it's still a little premature to be contacting other programs, especially top tier ones cuz a lot of them have not sent out invites yet.

 

[HoldTheCoffee]

Might be a little early to preemptively be calling about screening... not for another two weeks would be my guess. Dean's letters came out < 1 week ago. That said, keep in mind that unless the poster is an attending/PD, most of the people on this forum answering Qs are fellow students who are also going through the process for the first time.

I also agree with the other posters though. Go to the IM forum and look at the interview thread. If a lot of programs you've applied to have sent out a lot of interviews, it would probably be ok to talk to someone in your school for more advice.

 

[dakine doctor]

former Selection Chair/Attending speaking here:
At this point, what you should do is check to see if your file is complete. At times the only thing preventing interview offer is the fact that you don't have all of your required documents in place, the most common being your LOR's. Check with your school.
Also agree that you should take advice on this forum with a grain of salt. Most are first time applicants who for whatever reason are more pessimistic than the actual committees are.
Good luck. I'm sure you'll get some interviews before you know it.

 

[comet122]

Thank you to everyone for their input.

duckie99 my school is a strong mid-tier boston school. I've applied to many programs in boston including my home institution (although my home program hasn't started sending invites yet, so that's good for now..). The breakdown of my applications is probably near what you say, maybe 7-10 top, 10-13 mid, 7-10 low; the mid-tier programs are concentrated in the NE but I've applied to mid-tier programs elsewhere too. That's a good point that the competition probably has what I have in addition to great scores, so that was helpful.

woeiru thanks for your post. I've checked ADTS and everything is submitted. I guess the only weird thing that I see with ADTS is that some programs keep re-downloading random material that they've already downloaded (i.e. the date downloaded keeps changing to more recent dates). Could this mean anything?

sunset823 thanks.. I'll take your advice to contact my home program. Since I never checked the residency forums in the past, do you know if SDN users get invited everywhere? I'm asking to see whether tracking the IV thread is a good way to keep up with when programs, especially the top-tier, send out their invites.

Thank you to both HoldTheCoffee and dakine doctor for your support and advice. My file is complete on both ERAS and ADTS but I'll double-check with my school on Monday. In either case, I'll hold my hat for another couple weeks before initiating my FreakOut Response 🙂

 

[duckie99]

In either case, I'll hold my hat for another couple weeks before initiating my FreakOut Response 🙂

I don't know if money is an issue but there really is no harm in sending out your app to several other mid tier programs. Working your way south and west will help. NE is just competitive. Even the "mid tier" programs there are likely more competitive than some better ones the further south and west you go.

See the thing is that if decide in two weeks that you don't have enough interviews and you wait to long to send your app to more places that will drastically reduce your chances at getting an interview at those places... Just look at the charting outcomes 2011 document of the number of ranks people made and percentage that matched for internal medicine to see how many you would be comfortable ranking and choose interviews accordingly.

 

[gutonc]

Thank you to everyone for their input.

98woeiru thanks for your post. I've checked ADTS and everything is submitted. I guess the only weird thing that I see with ADTS is that some programs keep re-downloading random material that they've already downloaded (i.e. the date downloaded keeps changing to more recent dates). Could this mean anything?

No, that means nothing. That's just random ERAS weirdness...happens to everybody every year.

sunset823 thanks.. I'll take your advice to contact my home program. Since I never checked the residency forums in the past, do you know if SDN users get invited everywhere? I'm asking to see whether tracking the IV thread is a good way to keep up with when programs, especially the top-tier, send out their invites.

SDN is clearly a self-selected group but I do think it's relatively representative. By the time the season is over, you'll see a large numer of programs covering pretty much the entire spectrum of programs. Look at the IM interview list so far. "Top tier" programs you'll see on the list include Columbia, Vandy, WashU, NW, Duke, UCLA and Michigan. Programs you don't see on the list: the HMS programs, Cornell, UCSF, Stanford, Hopkins and Penn (among others). I can assure you that the people getting interviews from the programs in the first list applied to the 2nd list as well (at least some of them) and would be telling us if they'd heard from them. So, while the list isn't perfect, it's a pretty good representative, and you're not going to find a better one anywhere else.

 

[RainerMaria]

Why do the top programs take so long, anyway? It'd be nice to know if I had to start canceling IV's that are butt-far away.

 

[gutonc]

Why do the top programs take so long, anyway? It'd be nice to know if I had to start canceling IV's that are butt-far away.

Because they can. They know that you'll drop everything, even give up a plane ticket somwhere else, to interview at their program. And if you don't , they don't want you anyway.

 

[IMvrach]

Could it be that their review must go deeper and as result it takes longer than that of the less competitive programs? Especially, considering that the spread of the easily filterable criteria, such as scores, of the applicants to the elite programs is lower and less important and they have to dig into their research, personal statements etc.

In addition, they do less interviews per position than the "lesser" programs as their ROLs are relatively shorter making it less wasteful to do a thorough review for the IV selection?

Because they can. They know that you'll drop everything, even give up a plane ticket somwhere else, to interview at their program. And if you don't , they don't want you anyway.