pre-interview dinner to go or not?

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Good advice all through, but I would definitely treat it more as a social outing than a business dinner. Just don't act like a weirdo or get hammered. And you can have a beer. I think 2 or 3 of my interviews last year were at breweries/bars.

That being said, the residents do discuss the interview dinner with the resident selection committee.

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with having "a" drink if it's not a dry event unless none of the residents are having one. Don't order three. Don't go out drinking afterward. There's nothing wrong with being "boisterous" or asking lots of questions either so long as you can do it in a conversational, fun to have on the team way rather than an obnoxious or pushy way. The worst dinners have been where applicants mum up and it's like pulling teeth -- the ones who have lots to ask and are genuinely curious and social at these events do best. I do agree that these events are not the time to try and break the bank and order the most expensive thing on the menu. Have your steak and lobster dinner on your own dime. This isn't about wining and dining you, it's about getting you in a social setting so the residents can see if you are someone they can get along with and vice versa-- you'll be working in the trenches with these people a looong time.

I again would echo some of the statements above, that this is actually an important part of the interview process at a LOT of places, both for you to get some candid information about the program, and some of the personalities you might be working with for te next few years, and because the residents are absolutely going to weigh in on who they liked or disliked and the PD is going to take that very seriously and it will affect how he and the committee rank people. At many programs the chief resident is part if that committee and they show up with the input from their resident colleagues as to who they want or don't want. No PD is going to rank someone he thought he liked in his brief interview if the residents say he was a jerk at the dinner, and you'd be surprised how high someone's stock will rise with the committee if the residents all thought that someone was great.

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Agreed. There's nothing wrong with having "a" drink if it's not a dry event unless none of the residents are having one. Don't order three. Don't go out drinking afterward.

We sometimes take the applicants who want to out for a drink afterward. I would say if anything it helps their status to do so...
 
I realize this is an old thread, but the interview dinner question is a unique part of the application process that a lot of people don't understand (and I didn't really either when I went through it).

The pre-interview dinner is a test. To successfully pass it, you need to do the following things:

1. Attend
2. Arrive on time
3. Wear business casual dress. Do not wear jeans, do not wear shortsleeves, do not wear a suit, do not wear a tie. Men, this means slacks with a button-up shirt with the top button left loose. No matter what they tell you, this is what you should wear, period.
4. Make small-talk with everybody in the room and smile. Don't keep to yourself, don't be boisterous and tell ridiculous stories. Don't ask too many questions. Don't be annoying.
5. Do not order alcohol. If you want to drink, you can do this when you get back to your hotel room. Alternatively, only if every single resident has ordered an alcoholic drink and most of the applicants have as well, you can have a maximum of one, either beer or wine, and drink it slowly. However, the lower risk strategy is to abstain completely. You do not want to be the guy who shows up 10 minutes late and immediately orders a beer only to realize that nobody else is drinking anything and that they are not paying for it requiring the bill to be split for you. This happened to me.
6. Order something modest from the menu.
7. Do not pull out your phone even once.
8. Do not leave early.
9. Do not go out afterwards.

Do these things and you'll pass the test. Think of the pre-interview dinner as a test and you'll be better off. If you're thinking of it as a fun social outing, which it certainly could be if you ignored all of the above, then you risk screwing it up. It's painful and something you have to get through. You can go out for real with your friends and relax when you get back home. Programs are different. Treat everything like a test and you won't risk screwing up your rank at the spot where the residents opinion actually matters. Programs can do ridiculously petty things when it comes to ranking. So-and-so wore too much make-up to the pre-interview dinner and was flirting with the waiter, lets leave her at the bottom for now.... it happens.

While your numbered list is mostly safe, I think you are way overthinking things.

And I say that knowing full well that we as residents are paying attention to the applicants and contribute to the ranking.

The night before dinners should be enjoyable. They are your opportunity to meet the people you might be spending the next 3-7 years with. It's a chance for you to get to know us as much as it is for us to get to know you.

And I can assure you - the residents come because of some combination of (a) free food, (b) free booze, (c) free food, (d) wanting to meet the applicants. We aren't sitting there waiting to trip you up.

Don't do anything overtly offensive or stupid, don't get drunk. That's the only thing you really need to do to pass this "test"
 
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If you have any interest in the program at all, you should go.

All you have to do is encourage other people talk about themselves, show interest, and listen well. Then they'll love you. Your social skills don't really matter.
 
We sometimes take the applicants who want to out for a drink afterward. I would say if anything it helps their status to do so...

I guess this depends on how early they want you there for the interview day the next morning. I think not being hungover trumps any extra post-event status bump. But that reflects my own bias.
 
I guess this depends on how early they want you there for the interview day the next morning. I think not being hungover trumps any extra post-event status bump. But that reflects my own bias.

I mean...the residents have to get their even earlier so it's not like we take them on an all night bender...usually we just get a glass of scotch or a cocktail and chat for a bit...
 
Don't do anything overtly offensive or stupid, don't get drunk. That's the only thing you really need to do to pass this "test"

At some programs, yes. At other programs, no. If you follow my rules, you will not hurt yourself at ANY program, guaranteed. There are some programs that rank solely based on graded forms filled out by interviewers during the interview and combine them with an algorithmic score derived from board scores, med school reputation, etc. and that's IT - the PD literally sums them up and ranks them based on numerical scores with no afterthought and doesn't give a hoot what the residents think or say. There are other programs that are ridiculously petty and will stalk your facebook and not rank you because there's a picture of you at a party from 9 years ago.

The point is - why risk it? Slacks, button up, nice conservative shoes, well-groomed, on time, middle-priced meal, water to drink, smile a lot and ask softball questions. That's it.

All you have to do is encourage other people talk about themselves, show interest, and listen well.

This
 
If you follow my rules, you will not hurt yourself at ANY program, guaranteed.

And if you wear a football helmet every time you leave the house, you won't get a head injury.

Safe, but not necessary

You're being overly paranoid about the process. And I am usually extremely conservative in the advice I give applicants...but at the same time I think there needs to be some balance and you don't need to approach the night before gatherings with such paranoia and fear. They should be enjoyable.
 
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At some programs, yes. At other programs, no. If you follow my rules, you will not hurt yourself at ANY program, guaranteed. There are some programs that rank solely based on graded forms filled out by interviewers during the interview and combine them with an algorithmic score derived from board scores, med school reputation, etc. and that's IT - the PD literally sums them up and ranks them based on numerical scores with no afterthought and doesn't give a hoot what the residents think or say. There are other programs that are ridiculously petty and will stalk your facebook and not rank you because there's a picture of you at a party from 9 years ago.

The point is - why risk it? Slacks, button up, nice conservative shoes, well-groomed, on time, middle-priced meal, water to drink, smile a lot and ask softball questions. That's it.

This

The majority of programs I've come across that have these dinners do value the resident input. That's sort of the point of these dinners. I have no real issues with the advice you've given, other than the not ordering a drink ( IMHO if they have the event at a bar and grille, microbrewery, etc that pretty much means you are allowed to have a drink, and frankly many applicants are going to have an easier time working a room full of strangers with a sip of liquid courage). However, I do think if you go into it too focused on lists and not screwing up you won't put your best foot forward. Basically the only rules are 1. Attend, and 2. Be yourself, and 3. Don't be an idiot. Beyond that I wouldn't try to delineate things. If they like you thats great, if they dont, it would have been a bad couple of years, so you are better off with something else.
 
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