Pre-interview Meeting offer with PD (one day notice!)

[cooldown]

---

Members do not see this ad.

*ASKING FOR A FRIEND***

I am an IMG (Step 1 : 247/ Step 2: 231 ) who is doing observership at a program. 2013 graduate from overseas. I got a call that the PD wants to meet me to decide if to give interview or not -

I don't know how to prepare. I am assuming he will ask about the gaps or my weakness in the application. not why i chose their program or that speciality

--He might ask about visa status? I don't need visa sponsorship, already permanent resident
---HE MIGHT ask why it took me 2 years to do step? I don't know about that, that question seems like weird
---he might ask about????? Really not sure

 

[IMGASMD]

Depends on the speciality.
why should I take a chance on you? Why you? What’re your strengths? Any red flags? Why are there gaps? Just your standard interview stuff. But have good answers for any gaps/steps score difference/difference between your med school education than ours?

Any “no no” questions are probably fair game in this situation. Family planning, consider an additional prelim year to see if you can hack it. Sign/promise the contract on the spot?

Report back and let us know?

 

[cooldown]

consider an additional prelim year to see if you can hack it.<--WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

-- Sign/promise the contract on the spot? <--- means if i give you the residency spot, you will take it and sign it right away?

by the way, do you mind being on a mock interview tonight with this friend? we will keep it anonmyous so you don't have to use your real number or etc.

 

[IMGASMD]

consider an additional prelim year to see if you can hack it.
It means I will let you do a year of prelim, and re-evaluate to see if I will advance you. You may have to do multiple prelim year(s), and never get to a categorical spot. *they do this a lot for GS, for foreign grads. But I’ve seen also it done for IM*


-- Sign/promise the contract on the spot? Yes. Or promise to rank them number 1? Gamble either way. Also takes away your ability to choose AND put all your eggs in one basket.

It does seem promising if s/he is doing an externship and offered an interview. Sometimes it can also be a courtesy, so they actually save an actual interview spot for someone else.

Take is as serious as if it’s the real thing. If your residents actually like you, have them put in good words to PD.

 

[cooldown]

well, this is for neuro and im not sure if this program even has a prelim year (if so then this applies) or just a all together 4 years ....

 

[cooldown]

I hope this weird "do multiple prelim year thing" dosn't happen to US students ! OMG i will be horrified!

 

[cooldown]

It does seem promising if s/he is doing an externship and offered an interview. Sometimes it can also be a courtesy, so they actually save an actual interview spot for someone else.

well, why do they need to give courtesy? no reason for it? really, aren't PDs busy enough with the current applicant pool? how long? 30 mins?

-- Sign/promise the contract on the spot? Yes. Or promise to rank them number 1? Gamble either way. Also takes away your ability to choose AND put all your eggs in one basket.

u can promise and then later change mind??

 

[IMGASMD]

well, why do they need to give courtesy? no reason for it? really, aren't PDs busy enough with the current applicant pool? how long? 30 mins?

So there can be more applicants for externship? If they think they have a chance of getting in, they will keep on coming?
Or save an actual interview day spot for an American grad?



u can promise and then later change mind??

I am sure you have heard, if it’s not documented, then it’s not done. If the papers aren’t signed, it’s not real. So yes, promises are promises, it’s not real until it’s on paper.

Good luck. Take it seriously is the only play here.

 

[IMGASMD]

I hope this weird "do multiple prelim year thing" dosn't happen to US students ! OMG i will be horrified!

Do well, as long as you have options and multiple interviews, you won’t have this problem.

 

[cooldown]

thanks @IMGASMD -- are you applying right now? or already in residency?

 

[IMGASMD]

I am waiting to see what was asked?

 

[thumbz]

Programs can't offer spots outside the match, those days are over. So the hypothetical "here's a contract, sign it right now or you're done here" can't happen if this program participates in ERAS.

 

[mistafab]

How did it go OP?

 

[cooldown]

Hey guys so this is what happened (to the frd):
The PD was busy so had interview (maybe 30 mins) with the program coordinator (so not even an MD!).
I paid $500 to do this clerkship btw.

She said that my scores were very higher, higher than the residents there. But the only weakness is that my year of graduation is more than 5 years so that's a big weakness. CAN YOU GUYS talk about how that's a big flag?? Why PD want newly minted MDs?

She asked why our program and I noted that the program was ranked nationally, have elderly parents in the area so don't want to leave, enjoy the residents and the clerkship there. She said that if there is a cancellation , I can call you for the interview last min since you live right here.


@IMGASMD - do you mind answering if you are currently applying, future applicant or in residency?

 

[IMGASMD]

Hey guys so this is what happened (to the frd):
The PD was busy so had interview (maybe 30 mins) with the program coordinator (so not even an MD!).
I paid $500 to do this clerkship btw.

She said that my scores were very higher, higher than the residents there. But the only weakness is that my year of graduation is more than 5 years so that's a big weakness. CAN YOU GUYS talk about how that's a big flag?? Why PD want newly minted MDs?

She asked why our program and I noted that the program was ranked nationally, have elderly parents in the area so don't want to leave, enjoy the residents and the clerkship there. She said that if there is a cancellation , I can call you for the interview last min since you live right here.


@IMGASMD - do you mind answering if you are currently applying, future applicant or in residency?

Attending in IM and anesthesia.

I hope your friend treated the coordinator with respect and had a good-ish interview.

I will not read much into it. So I will just answer some of your questions.

Gap years just mean that most likely you haven’t been doing anything medically related, applying your knowledge and skills for that amount of time. Also if you’ve been applying every single year, that means you’ve been passed on for five years straight. I would wonder if there is some skeletons in the closet. Did you apply for the last four cycles? Did you have any interviews?

US IMGs. Depends where you got the degree, if big four Caribbean schools, five years out. Need to think of plan b, c, d and e. If some other country’s reputable school, like “Yale of country X” then I would recommend do some research if you want to stay in medicine. Maybe long and hard road ahead.

The fact you had to pay 500, I know not a lot, but also not very little to do this externship makes me a little skeptical of this “interview.” I hope the coordinator likes you enough and some residents will speak up for you, then perhaps you will actually speak to the PD. I would pull out all the stops, if this is your only externship. I may just make an appoint with PD and sell myself.

IMG with those numbers even though they’re “much higher” than the residents. Historically, still have tough time getting into *any* residencies.

Good luck.

 

[thumbz]

Yeah, that "interview" sounds like a kindness that was extended because your friend shelled out the $500 to do a clerkship there. Being 5 years out from graduation is going to be a massive, nearly insurmountable red flag unless you really wow with your clinical skills during your observorship.

The fact that you did a clerkship there and didn't even get a real courtesy interview (but rather a spot, maybe, on their cancellation list depending on how much pull the PC has with the PD) tells me that program is not at all actually interested in you(r friend).

 

[cooldown]

@thumbz - yes. That's exactly it " a kindness" interview. . The friend graduated in 2009 and did a mandatory internship that finish in 2013. Still more than 5 year mark is what the PC said.

The frd also applied late ie. late-mid September. She also has some basic english language speaking errors like not using past tense etc..so that will also effect her interviews?

She has 3-5 other interview in November. A couple were b.c she knew a resident and they called the PD/PC and she got the interview. She seems to think that all the Ethnithy X people help each other since she is not Ethnicity X and doesn't have connections, this is why. But I think it's a cut-throat merit based process. right?

@IMGASMD - this is her first time applying. Thank you for your interest and advice here.

Yes I know another IMG that is applying late and thinks that if he doesn't match, he can just apply next year but based on my school (US school) ,they told us that your chances of matching even as US-school grad go down significantly if you don't match the first time.



--This makes me very scared about my own chances now!---

 

[thumbz]

There are very few circumstances where connections will get you a residency. This is for a couple reasons - first off you stake your reputation if you vouch and bring that resident there so they better be good. Second is this person is there to work and make the program look good, and if they don't then the entire programs reputation can take a hit both with the hospital, the other residents and potential candidates/students that rotate through.

The fact your friend got 3-5 interviews being 5+ years from graduation is stellar. Were they working as a physician in their home country during that time? Because that drastically changes this entire picture. We don't want to risk taking someone who hasn't done clinical medicine for 5+ years. I'll happily take the person who is a practicing cardiothoracic surgeon in Brazil.

The English language part will be a big barrier - if it's just tense errors that's ok but if a resident cant communicate effectively with patients and consultants that's a dealbreaker.

 

[cooldown]

She was working as a Family Medical doctor in their country and came to US in 2016-2017 to prepare for boards. (This is a female from a Middle eastern-Central Asian country, I don't know how much diversity is imp)

She is not applying for FM here, she is applying for IM + another speciality.

For English- it's just tenses + the different way non-native speakers construct their sentences . not gramatically incorrect but also not the norm here. I told her that we can practice on your tenses because it's just habit but an interviewer / future hospital colleagues. may wonder about your capabiities if you can't get the tense correct, you know?
--
I have another friend, a guy in his mid-40s, who is preparing step 1. It's a big challenger and much much difficult picture for him. Working in his country but came a few years ago. (2016-2017ish)

 

[IMGASMD]

She was working as a Family Medical doctor in their country and came to US in 2016-2017 to prepare for boards. (This is a female from a Middle eastern-Central Asian country, I don't know how much diversity is imp)

This is also telling that the interview was a courtesy. In this case gap years question makes no sense. So PD didn’t vet the interview and PC had no clue what that means.

Foreign grads in general does not factor into “diversity”. AFAIK, they’re just foreign.

She is not applying for FM here, she is applying for IM + another speciality.

I wish her luck. And I hope she came from the “Yale of her country”.

For English- it's just tenses + the different way non-native speakers construct their sentences . not gramatically incorrect but also not the norm here. I told her that we can practice on your tenses because it's just habit but an interviewer / future hospital colleagues. may wonder about your capabiities if you can't get the tense correct, you know?

I don’t think English plays a prominent part here. The program knows she’s foreign. They expect her English not to be perfect. It’s more of if she understands the culture and/or the patients culture that’s more important. And if she can pass her boards on the first try. Those are the matrix actually affect the program more.

--
I have another friend, a guy in his mid-40s, who is preparing step 1. It's a big challenger and much much difficult picture for him. Working in his country but came a few years ago. (2016-2017ish).

I’ve met throughout my trainings with plenty of foreign grads. And they all take a different paths to get there. Some went for additional trainings, PhD. Some bounce from prelim to prelim. Some even took much less prestigious positions, surgical techs or phlebotomist to survive and keep some of their skills.

Some will make it. Unfortunately, some will not.

 

[cooldown]

@IMGASAMD @thumbz - thank you again to both of your for kind response and for chiming in with your experience.

How do courtesy interview work? is there something in ERAs that lets the PD see if any letter came from their site/rotation/department and then grant interview that way? or the clerkship director/attending put in a work ---?> kindness interview.

In all honestly the "NOT an interview" / aka kindness interview is nice but not that good of a thing . It's like a getting a ****ty ring when you really wanted an engagement ring....

 

[thumbz]

Realizing I don't work at a giant (100+ resident) program, I'll answer you from the perspective of a midsize program. Our PD helps pick who gets subi's/rotations with us, and our faculty all recognize names if someone has rotated with us. So if we know you rotated with us, and especially if you are physically here during interview season, we will extend a courtesy interview even if we don't plan to rank someone highly. We would not courtesy interview someone we 100% know we would not rank, but someone needs to be on the bottom of the rank list. That being said we wouldn't invite someone we would not rank to rotate with us, that's just a waste of everyone's money.

A courtesy/kindness interview is like buying a lottery ticket - there's a good chance it's not going to help you match here but there's that 1 in a million shot you'll impress the right person and make it in.