pre med at community college

[baobao]

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I just wonder if the premed can be finished at the community college? which will make any different when applicating the med school?

 

[Sundarban1]

I just wonder if the premed can be finished at the community college? which will make any different when applicating the med school?

Most schools look down upon taking pre-reqs at the community college level. Some schools will not accept credits from community colleges. If that is your only option I would advise you to contact the schools you hope to apply to and see if they will accept or not before you start.

 

[Spooner]

I do think it is a big NO for cc pre-req classes.

 

[cutie_monkey]

I agreed! I thought about that too but was advised not to... 🙁

 

[cutie_monkey]

A few weeks ago I posted about my meeting with Pritzker to talk about my future application and the fact that I was taking CC courses. I took the Bio and Gen Chem sequences as an undergrad years ago, and re-took them at a CC for a refresher. I also own and run my own business, so I will probably take the physics and o-chem sequences at a cc as well, since I can take them in the evening.

Apparently, this seemed ok to the director of admissions, mostly because I've already got a solid background with advanced degrees. If you are in the same situation, you could do your bio/chem/o-chem/physics at a cc and then do other higher-level courses at a 4-year uni/college (e.g. cell bio, genetics, biochem, etc.).

Everyone's situation is different, so don't let people tell you what to do without looking at both sides of the fence.

MegBoo,

What are your advanced degrees??? I have 2 undergrad degrees and an MBA with solid working experience + possibly taking on a partnership with a friend. I am doing the lower course at a 4 yrs b/c I didn't think cc credits will be good....I'll have to look into that...

Thanks

 

[baobao]

MegBoo,

What are your advanced degrees??? I have 2 undergrad degrees and an MBA with solid working experience + possibly taking on a partnership with a friend. I am doing the lower course at a 4 yrs b/c I didn't think cc credits will be good....I'll have to look into that...

Thanks

Thanks for the hot discussion here. I have a bachelor degree in the traditional chinese medicine, a nurse diploma and work as a nurse to make the living right now.

BTW, I search the the Internet and some of the dental schools do accept the CC credits. I just wonder why the med school is different with the dental school.

 

[dcb154]

Some schools will not accept credits from community colleges.

So how would that work for transfer students then? If you didn't go to a 4 year right off the bat, then how would they go about accepting/rejecting credits? Or are you saying they just would not accept the science classes from a cc? And if that is the case, would you not factor community college classes into your BCPM GPA? A little clarification (if you can offer any) would be great. Thanks

 

[letsrun4it]

they'd rather have someone who took the classes at a cc and got a 33 mcat than someone who took the classes at harvard with a 27 mcat.

 

[Beau Geste]

So how would that work for transfer students then? If you didn't go to a 4 year right off the bat, then how would they go about accepting/rejecting credits? Or are you saying they just would not accept the science classes from a cc? And if that is the case, would you not factor community college classes into your BCPM GPA? A little clarification (if you can offer any) would be great. Thanks

I'm not sure of all the schools who don't accept cc courses for pre-reqs, but Case doesn't for sure. You can check out their stance on their website. I think they should, as long as the grades and MCAT are great. But I'm just one person 🙁

 

[letsrun4it]

I'm not sure of all the schools who don't accept cc courses for pre-reqs, but Case doesn't for sure. You can check out their stance on their website. I think they should, as long as the grades and MCAT are great. But I'm just one person 🙁

like i said above, i was curious..so i called a TON of schools making a tally and i lost the paper but it was like 42-3 said they'd take em and only a few more than that remarked that it'd be considered with any caution. most acted like "dont you know that amcas takes cc credit, anything post secondary"

 

[Sundarban1]

bottom line is that CC courses (for the most part, I know there are some that are pretty good) are not going to prepare you well enough for the MCAT.

 

[Beau Geste]

bottom line is that CC courses (for the most part, I know there are some that are pretty good) are not going to prepare you well enough for the MCAT.

What have you found lacking in them? I'm going to take the Physics and Orgo sequences at a cc, but if there are topics they typically don't cover, I'd like to find out what they are and review them!

I think, though, that the cc I'm at is one that is pretty good, so hopefully they cover everything I need. So far they covered everything from Gen Bio and Gen Chem that Kaplan covers in its comprehensive review. Maybe there is stuff missing from there as well, though.

 

[Beau Geste]

like i said above, i was curious..so i called a TON of schools making a tally and i lost the paper but it was like 42-3 said they'd take em and only a few more than that remarked that it'd be considered with any caution. most acted like "dont you know that amcas takes cc credit, anything post secondary"

That is really encouraging news!

 

[75969]

bottom line is that CC courses (for the most part, I know there are some that are pretty good) are not going to prepare you well enough for the MCAT.

I took my intro bio/chem courses at cc....I am now a double major (in bio and chem) and felt that my cc courses left me MORE prepared for advanced coursework (compared to my fellow classmates). Like the OP said, it may depend on which cc you go to...?!?

 

[tc13]

Here's my two cents worth as a nontrad returning to school. I have taken classes at UT Arlington, UT Dallas, and specifically Physics at DCCCD.
For one, I made As in everything. Second, there were times at the "university" I felt completely ripped off considering how much I paid and how little the profs taught me. If all they cover is the book, hell, I can do that on my own. My physics teacher at Northlake (dcccd) is awesome and really makes you think. You cannot answer his questions with "textbook definitions" in class because he'll fire right back with a "what does that mean."
His tests were also noticeably harder.
I have come to the realization that the two universities in my area will say just about anything to have you spend $1100 per class with them. Funny thing was that both UT schools say they are harder than the other. The only difference I saw was that one school used the A, A- system and the other used A, B.

And yes, I still worry about not taking the prereq sciences at the university. So far physics is the only one I have had at the cc.

 

[Sundarban1]

What have you found lacking in them?

Mostly the quality of teaching. Out here in the east anyone with a bachelors or masters degree can teach at the CC level without any official teaching degree or PHD in a science. Usually, 4 year institutions require at least a PHD in a science to teach those classes.

 

[JDWflash44]

I'm not sure of all the schools who don't accept cc courses for pre-reqs, but Case doesn't for sure. You can check out their stance on their website. I think they should, as long as the grades and MCAT are great. But I'm just one person 🙁

Case's website may say they dont take cc credit, but I took both my bio pre-reqs and chem I at a cc and they invited me for an interview for both case and cleveland clinic as soon as my file was complete, so who knows.

Jim

 

[nev]

I know a girl who did her pre-reqs in the same community college I am going to and got accepted to UT Southwestern's medical school.

 

[Beau Geste]

Case's website may say they dont take cc credit, but I took both my bio pre-reqs and chem I at a cc and they invited me for an interview for both case and cleveland clinic as soon as my file was complete, so who knows.

Jim

Now I'm totally confused!!!! 😕

I guess it's just "apply and see".

 

[relentless11]

In regards to if cc classes are looked down upon or not. Really if you did your pre-reqs at a cc, and showed you did well in upper division classes (like biochemistry, upper div OChem, etc) at a 4-yr (after transferring), then it doesn't matter, at least in the big picture. Of course if a school refuses to count cc credit then the answer is obvious, one has to take it at a 4-yr.

The transfer route is becoming more and more popular every year, especially here in CA. If taking pre-reqs at a CC was such a bad idea, then the UC's would have not advised students to take their pre-reqs before tranferring to expedite their progress towards a bachelors degree. In the case of science majors, those pre-reqs would encompass med school pre-reqs. On the flipside, schools do add in some factor specific to where they took their courses. For example, an A from UC Berkeley is worth more than from a Cal State school. Not because of the teaching quality, but the amount of competition from the student population. This will no doubt be applied to courses taken at a CC. However to what extent, probably not much if one does well in courses at the school they transferred to. Adcoms can't really say much when you did well at the CC and at the 4-yr, especially considering you will be taking harder upper division classes as a jr/sr. Now if you only have CC credit when you apply, that might be iffy 😛 .

Now in regards to the MCAT, I personally believe one CAN do well on the MCAT if they took their pre-reqs at a CC. It all depends on if you had a good teacher or not, and this is not something dependent on if it is at a CC or a 4-yr. I have seen my own share of bad professors at my university, and when I attended a CC. In fact, more so at my university. A PhD does not equal being a good teacher. Being a good teacher is mostly intrinsic to the person as an individual, and their ability to communicate their knowledge, not how much research they do, or how many years they've been in school. I personally took GChem, and OChem at a CC, and had no problems on the PS and BS sections of the MCAT. Now if only there was a class to deal with VS 😉 .

Really, doing well on the MCAT is not a problem about where or who you took your pre-reqs from, considering most people take their MCATs during their junior year (1-2 years after having taken biology, GChem, OChem)....the big factor is how much you remember, and how much time you are willing to put into reviewing (or even learning) the stuff that will be covered on the test.

 

[exigente chica]

I too, was thinking of re taking both chem I and chem II over the summer at a CC? Would this look bad if all my other pre reqs were done at a 4 year?

 

[Beau Geste]

I too, was thinking of re taking both chem I and chem II over the summer at a CC? Would this look bad if all my other pre reqs were done at a 4 year?

No.

 

[Sundarban1]

No.

I don't agree. At a recent HES lecture from an admissions committee member form UMASS med, this person stated that all pre-reqs should be taken at a 4 year college. If you take take some pre-reqs at a 4 year college and others at the cc level it might raise a red flag that you are trying to take an easy way out.

 

[microgin]

It all depends on if you had a good teacher or not, and this is not something dependent on if it is at a CC or a 4-yr. I have seen my own share of bad professors at my university, and when I attended a CC. In fact, more so at my university. A PhD does not equal being a good teacher. Being a good teacher is mostly intrinsic to the person as an individual, and their ability to communicate their knowledge, not how much research they do, or how many years they've been in school.

👍 I couldn't agree more! Case in point - I have a Master's degree and teach General Biology lab at a 4 yr university. Next door to my lab there's a PhD who teaches another section of the same lab. Yesterday we had the students do an experiment in fermentation where you mix yeast cells with a glucose solution and calculate the amount of CO2 produced over a half-hour time period. The students mark the level of the CO2 foam on the fermentation tube every five minutes. The PhD was concerned that over time the yeast might settle out of solution, so he had his students reinvert the fermentation tubes after 15 minutes into the experiment.... only problem is, when you reinvert the tubes, they fill with liquid and force the CO2 that's already been produced out of the tube, so you couldn't get an accurate determination of the total amount of CO2 produced over the half-hour. Sometimes having a PhD = no common sense

 

[Beau Geste]

I don't agree. At a recent HES lecture from an admissions committee member form UMASS med, this person stated that all pre-reqs should be taken at a 4 year college. If you take take some pre-reqs at a 4 year college and others at the cc level it might raise a red flag that you are trying to take an easy way out.

Well, from their post, it sounded like they were re-taking them, meaning they already took them (I guess at a 4-year)?

I still don't think it would be a problem for Gen Chem.

 

[microgin]

I don't agree. At a recent HES lecture from an admissions committee member form UMASS med, this person stated that all pre-reqs should be taken at a 4 year college. If you take take some pre-reqs at a 4 year college and others at the cc level it might raise a red flag that you are trying to take an easy way out.

Yeah, I think the CC stigma does exist with adcoms, but I'm not convinced that it's always justifiable (see my previous post about instructor quality). I think if anyone is considering taking any pre-reqs at a CC that they should be fully-prepared for the onslaught of questions that may arise in an interview setting. Hopefully your reasons for wanting to take pre-reqs involve financial or time constraints and not the desire to take the easy way out. And by all means, you've got to have the numbers on your MCAT that show that you did learn your stuff!

 

[Beau Geste]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum in the non-trad forum and on OPM. If you are concerned with cc credits, do a search on this site. You will find people who took them and got in.

 

[Sundarban1]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseum in the non-trad forum and on OPM. If you are concerned with cc credits, do a search on this site. You will find people who took them and got in.

We can discuss specific situations of every person who applied to medical school ad nauseum also. The OP was looking for a little guidence and although it might be a blanket statement, it holds true overall in this process that if possible, you should take your pre-reqs at a 4 year institution vs. community college level. Thanks.

 

[kimmcauliffe]

Couple of thoughts regarding cc vs 4-yr institution credits:

More and more pre-med students are returning adults who are catering to families and jobs. For these reasons, night school at a cc is the one and only route to go for the time being, until we are ready for upper-level coursework.

Two, money is a huge factor. Not everyone can afford to go to a four year college, so the recent trend is to head to a cc first and save money.

Third, comparing the level of instruction, challenges, course worth of a cc class compared to a 4-year, from personal experience I am doing way more in-depth experiments, attending more comprehensive lectures, ect than my Cal Poly cohorts. Don't know if this is the general rule or the exception to the rule, but either way, it's working for me.

OHSU is my first choice, and here's what they have to say on the subject:

Are there certain universities/colleges that applicants should attend to better their chances for acceptance?

No. Students should select a university or college that they would enjoy attending and can afford for four years. When reviewing the applicant's academic profile, the Admissions Committee looks at the MCAT and overall and science GPA. It also considers such factors as breadth of education, major, courses taken, GPA trends, course loads, extracurricular activities, etc.

So for all of you cc students out there, do it up!

 

[Beau Geste]

We can discuss specific situations of every person who applied to medical school ad nauseum also. The OP was looking for a little guidence and although it might be a blanket statement, it holds true overall in this process that if possible, you should take your pre-reqs at a 4 year institution vs. community college level. Thanks.

Yeah, and I was directing the poster to other places where this topic has been discussed A LOT (hence, ad nauseum).

 

[relentless11]

I don't agree. At a recent HES lecture from an admissions committee member form UMASS med, this person stated that all pre-reqs should be taken at a 4 year college. If you take take some pre-reqs at a 4 year college and others at the cc level it might raise a red flag that you are trying to take an easy way out.

UCSF, UC Davis and Stanford has never had that policy, and I would go as far as to say this is a UC wide thing. The deans of admissions for these schools who are also at times on the adcoms go to local community colleges on a yearly basis to speak about what it takes to get in to these respected schools. They emphasize grades/classes are one part of the picture, and never mentioned pre-reqs SHOULD to be taken at a 4-year university. People who start life out in CC's will undoubtfully transfer, therefore will have plenty of upper division science classes to choose from, therefore knowing this, these schools don't really give much thought into where you took it, aslong as you didn't get anything below a B. Therefore upper division courses is where the money is at.

As kimmcauliffe stated, they look at the big picture. There are numerous VALID reasons why one would take pre-reqs at a community college. It appears there is way too much emphasis in "doing well" and "where you take" the pre-reqs.

Taking your pre-reqs only GETS you into the whole admissions game.

Ones academic record, and who you are as a person determines if you win or lose that game.

Again, I must echo what kimmcauliffe said. "No. Students should select a university or college that they would enjoy attending and can afford for four years. When reviewing the applicant's academic profile, the Admissions Committee looks at the MCAT and overall and science GPA. It also considers such factors as breadth of education, major, courses taken, GPA trends, course loads, extracurricular activities, etc. "

I too, was thinking of re taking both chem I and chem II over the summer at a CC? Would this look bad if all my other pre reqs were done at a 4 year?

The whole RE-TAKING issue is kinda gray. Those that failed (D, F) their classes, yes they should retake it. If you got a C, that can go either way. An adcom will expect you to get an A when you retake the SAME class. Not another class from another school with different standards. So this may be a case where retaking a class at a CC with the "stigma" of CC's being of lesser quality may hurt you. Therefore as an example, if you got a C in General Chemistry, go take Physical Chemistry and get an A in that.

Now TAKING pre-reqs (rather than re-taking) at a CC over the summer, thats not bad at all. Plenty of students do that for cost reasons, as summer session courses have been traditionally expensive due to tuition and/or living expenses.

Again, being a former CC student myself, I must emphasize educationally there is no difference in quality of teachers at a CC vs. 4-year. Teaching quality is based on the person, not their degrees/school. My CC courses were deemed not an issue when I met with the director of admissions at UC Davis, and spoke with the deans of admissions at UCSF, and Stanford. Mainly because I did my remaining years at UC Davis, and did well in my upper division courses and MCAT. Let me ask you this.... I'm now a PhD student, do you think they will even ponder about where/when I took my pre-reqs when I apply next year? You will find other threads where their sub-par performance as an undergrad was overshadowed by their spectacular performance as a graduate student. So pre-reqs ultimately become a small metric in the whole measurement system of the adcom. Thus, grades, and course work are only two of many variables in the overall equation. 🙄

 

[kimmcauliffe]

So pre-reqs ultimately become a small metric in the whole measurement system of the adcom. Thus, grades, and course work are only two of many variables in the overall equation. 🙄

Well said. This also brings to mind two other things:

1.) Many students who don't do well in, say Intro to Bio, might ace an upper level Bio classes, which goes to show the student's progression.

2.) This sounds to me like a pissing contest between students already at a 4 year as opposed to cc students. If a med school were to say that they don't accept cc college credits, how many people would they be discriminating against?

 

[relentless11]

2.) This sounds to me like a pissing contest between students already at a 4 year as opposed to cc students. If a med school were to say that they don't accept cc college credits, how many people would they be discriminating against?

Sounds like it to me too. Although entertaining for me to see people panic for no reason and come up with a variety of reasons why this occurs, it is also frustrating since many good candidates may be discouraged from applying for reasons that may not be entirely truthful. I agree that such a policy where adcoms refuse to look at cc credit would be a huge mistake. You being from CA know about the transfer agreements between local cc's and the UC's...so the UC's get a huge number of transfers. So if such a policy exists, I guess they are going to have to deny admission to a lot of UC students . Which we all know doesn't happen.

Now that I think about it, maybe someone should make a sticky or something with an evidence-based list of facts to disprove these myths that float around. Although the forums do have a search function, this might be a time when one stickey may cure most of the unneeded stress associated with applying to med school.

 

[kimmcauliffe]

You being from CA know about the transfer agreements between local cc's and the UC's...so the UC's get a huge number of transfers. So if such a policy exists, I guess they are going to have to deny admission to a lot of UC students . Which we all know doesn't happen.

Definitely! Which seems to be the case with a lot of state schools having transfer agreements with their junior colleges.

These people who disagree would most likely feel differently if they went to a junior college first. 🙂 But then what do I know?

 

[Dancingwiththedocs]

I do think it is a big NO for cc pre-req classes.

What if I take other classes that aren't the pre-reqs, and wait to take them at a university?

 

[Xmanay]

Most schools look down upon taking pre-reqs at the community college level. Some schools will not accept credits from community colleges. If that is your only option I would advise you to contact the schools you hope to apply to and see if they will accept or not before you start.

I am not majoring in a science, and I am transferring to a university in two years. Will taking all my pre-med courses at a university affect when I can take the MCAT?