Pre-Med Engineers: What did you gain from being an engineer?

[Lucca]

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I'm curious as to what pushed SDN's engineers into the field. What did you gain? Was it interesting? Did you find the field or the coursework more interesting than, say, pre-reqs or humanities courses? If you had to do it again, would you?

I'm not particularly interested into switching into Engineering but I really want to know why and how the engineers on SDN do it.

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

I'm not an engineer, but almost all of the ones I've been acquainted with said they did it because it was the best possible back up plan if they didn't get into medical school. They'd still be making a lot of money either way.

 

[amazing tekkers]

I know a few of them, brilliant individuals.

 

[medicalhope]

Personally, I was very intrigued by the math/physics heavy component and I found it much more interesting than basic sciences.

Looking back, I feel the coursework was probably a bit harder, but very rewarding. Not to sound cliche, but it gives you a different way of looking at problems, and equips you very well for complex situations. It also prepares you very well for teamwork, as most engineering homework cannot be completed alone.

Furthermore, theres also the fact that you can get a good job straight out of UG, in case you want to take a gap year without becoming a research technician.

 

[Lucca]

Personally, I was very intrigued by the math/physics heavy component and I found it much more interesting than basic sciences.

Looking back, I feel the coursework was probably a bit harder, but very rewarding. Not to sound cliche, but it gives you a different way of looking at problems, and equips you very well for complex situations. It also prepares you very well for teamwork, as most engineering homework cannot be completed alone.

Furthermore, theres also the fact that you can get a good job straight out of UG, in case you want to take a gap year without becoming a research technician.

Thanks for the feedback. How does an upper division engineering course differ from a lower division? I've heard from my engineer friends that the first and second years are essentially just weedout years. My major was in physics when I began and the same was true of the Waves class at my UG.

 

[terp720]

Personally, I was very intrigued by the math/physics heavy component and I found it much more interesting than basic sciences.

Looking back, I feel the coursework was probably a bit harder, but very rewarding. Not to sound cliche, but it gives you a different way of looking at problems, and equips you very well for complex situations. It also prepares you very well for teamwork, as most engineering homework cannot be completed alone.

Furthermore, theres also the fact that you can get a good job straight out of UG, in case you want to take a gap year without becoming a research technician.

Basically everything I was thinking. And I would do it again!

 

[medicalhope]

Thanks for the feedback. How does an upper division engineering course differ from a lower division? I've heard from my engineer friends that the first and second years are essentially just weedout years. My major was in physics when I began and the same was true of the Waves class at my UG.

I feel that depends on what type of engineering you are studying. In general however, I feel like more advance courses depart from the fundamentals (which are assumed) and really get into the thick of what engineering is (ie. application and problem solving using concepts as the basis).

If you are pre-med however, I would strongly suggest some sort of Chemical or Biological Engineering. That way, you can get your feet wet with all the cool concepts, but at the same time get experience in the sciences that will be applicable to medicine. As an added benefit, you will learn the basic sciences very very well, since you will have to be able to apply them, rather than just memorize concepts. (Not to say basic scientist just memorize concepts, every field has its merits, and you will definitely not have the same depth a Bio/Chem major would. You will however, know how to access the information that you are missing with ease to solve problems)

 

[Aerus]

Most of my friends who were premed and majored in engineering wanted a back up plan.

There were a few who were just more comfortable dealing with math and physics instead of basic biology or chemistry, too. Engineers, in general, also have a lot better problem solving skills and critical thinking capabilities than their biology major counterparts, so that would be useful for the MCAT, I'd imagine.

 

[Lucca]

I feel that depends on what type of engineering you are studying. In general however, I feel like more advance courses depart from the fundamentals (which are assumed) and really get into the thick of what engineering is (ie. application and problem solving using concepts as the basis).

If you are pre-med however, I would strongly suggest some sort of Chemical or Biological Engineering. That way, you can get your feet wet with all the cool concepts, but at the same time get experience in the sciences that will be applicable to medicine. As an added benefit, you will learn the basic sciences very very well, since you will have to be able to apply them, rather than just memorize concepts. (Not to say basic scientist just memorize concepts, every field has its merits, and you will definitely not have the same depth a Bio/Chem major would. You will however, know how to access the information that you are missing with ease to solve problems)

Interestingly enough, at my UG BME and ChemE (with the Cell Eng. track) both cover all the pre-med reqs so all the pre-med engineers I know are one of those two. I haven't met any EE pre-meds though. Probably because the coursework is so different and at my UG EECS is considered the "hardest" stand-alone major. It's a shame, if I were to be an engineer I'd probably go the EE route.

 

[terp720]

. It also prepares you very well for teamwork, as most engineering homework cannot be completed alone..

Haha although this definitely happens, at least in my program I don't think I had a single class that didn't have at least one group project. Teamwork is highly valued...

 

[medicalhope]

Interestingly enough, at my UG BME and ChemE (with the Cell Eng. track) both cover all the pre-med reqs so all the pre-med engineers I know are one of those two. I haven't met any EE pre-meds though. Probably because the coursework is so different and at my UG EECS is considered the "hardest" stand-alone major. It's a shame, if I were to be an engineer I'd probably go the EE route.

Mostly true where I am too (except for a few courses). Two birds with one stone!

 

[terp720]

Interestingly enough, at my UG BME and ChemE (with the Cell Eng. track) both cover all the pre-med reqs so all the pre-med engineers I know are one of those two. I haven't met any EE pre-meds though. Probably because the coursework is so different and at my UG EECS is considered the "hardest" stand-alone major. It's a shame, if I were to be an engineer I'd probably go the EE route.

I had to take 2 classes outside of my BME requirements, so it was definitely the easiest to combine with pre-med at my UG.

 

[Lucca]

I had to take 2 classes outside of my BME requirements, so it was definitely the easiest to combine with pre-med at my UG.

Indeed! I thought about adding Engineering for a while. My Biochemistry major is just one more class above the BME requirement and my humanities major covers basically everything else - but then I would have to add another year to my UG and risk tanking my GPA.

Honestly, if I had the money and time, I'd probably do it.

 

[ChemEngMD]

My reasoning was unfortunately highly monetary -- I was offered an engineering specific scholarship and if I changed majors, I lost my full scholly.

I knew that engineering wasn't for me at the end of my sophomore year, but I stuck with it and I don't regret it anymore. I learned how to think on my toes and solve problems quickly and creatively.

It really has shaped my way of thinking and has come in handy during my graduate research degree. When I have to start troubleshooting, I just start thinking like an engineer haha.

I don't think it's necessary the right choice though if you know you want to be a doctor from the beginning -- but some people can do it.

 

[Life Sucks]

Well, at least they can go into bioengineering. Silicon valley, here I come!

 

[ChEMD]

Problem solving is probably the best skill you could learn in undergrad. Engineering is a major based primarily on applying what you learn. Classes are often centered on how you use the information they give to you, instead of just giving the information to you. Medical school will teach you everything you need to know about the biology of the human body. Spending time before medical school learning how to apply information is invaluable. Not to say that biology/chemistry degrees don't do this, but engineering does this to a greater extent in my opinion.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm curious as to what pushed SDN's engineers into the field. What did you gain? Was it interesting? Did you find the field or the coursework more interesting than, say, pre-reqs or humanities courses? If you had to do it again, would you?

I'm not particularly interested into switching into Engineering but I really want to know why and how the engineers on SDN do it.

I went into engineering for who knows what f-ing reason. I think read a book on nanotechnology in high school? It seemed like a big deal at the time. Also engineers made bank, so that was good. Finally I'm a huge nerd, so it seemed like the place to be.

What did I gain? An extra year of college to finish the 140 credit degree, and an extra post-college year of premed to un-f**k my GPA and do an SMP. I was a slightly above average engineer at my school, GPA wise, but not enough above average to break a 3.0. The competition in engineering is brutal, much harder than medical school, and several thousand times harder than a liberal arts class, at least where I went. Maybe the liberal arts are harder elsewhere? I was at an engineering school, so they were basically like recess.

Was it interesting? Did you take calculus yet? Ok do that, but all day every day. And add some more variables. No its not interesting. Arguably engineering is one of the more interesting fields to work in, but the education f-ing sucks. Its like medical school: a lot of people like being doctors, but (almost) no one likes being a medical student. No one likes being an engineering student either

No I would not do it again, knowing that I didn't end up an engineer (I switched to premed at the end). I won't say it was a complete waste, because nothing ever is, but I wouldn't recommend anyone put themselves through a professional school for a profession they're not planning to join. I spent way to may nights learning fluid dynamics equations I never applied. I think I would still recommend engineering as a potential career, but definitely not for someone who wants medicine.

 

[Brownshorts]

What did I gain? A sub par (for applying to med school) GPA.

I went into it because of a romanticized fantasy about what engineering would be. Turns out it's mostly doing problem sets or sitting in front of a computer fantasizing about all the ways I can destroy it because stupid freaking labview won't respect my authority.

In all seriousness being a biomed was tremendously interesting, and I got a lot out of it. At my school it's a broad major so I got to experience a lot of science/ engineering disciplines. I learned how to approach problems in a logical manner, and to think like a scientist. I learned how to buckle down and finish what always seemed to be an impossible amount of work. I feel like I ran the gauntlet and came out the other end; it was a test of my academic metal. Because of biomed I know what I'm capable of, and I can say with a great deal of certainty that I'm more prepared for the rigors of med school than the vast majority of applicants.

Would I do it again? Hell to the no, but when I get there I will be hanging my engineering degree right alongside my med school degree because it's one of my greatest accomplishments.

 

[medicalhope]

About the GPA sink and miserable amount of work, I would say it's important to make sure you like engineering and are up for it before you commit. Try taking a dfq course for example, if you hate it, engineering is not for you. Same applies to mechanics, calculus, thermo, etc.

On the bright side, most of the engineers in medical school I know tell me it is much more relaxed, and that they have a ton more free time, so thats definitely something to look forward to!

 

[Lya]

As I went to a large engineering school, I did not major in engineering but many of my ECs revolve around engineering. One of my most meaningful activities is my projects overseas collaborating with engineering students.

(In doing so, my GPA did not suffer, while I still took advantage of various engineering programs that I was allowed to pursue with a different major. I would absolutely do it again if I restart as a freshman.)


What I got out of, which is something Atul Gawande heavily discusses in his book about checklists, is how to formulate a plan for a complex problem, how to deliver a project promptly, how to collaborate with team members, how to transition to a new set of team members, and how to manage a failure, among many things. These initially seem very cliche, until you are actually in a situation to deal with a complicated problem that is extremely wide open. This is an incredible lesson I could not have learned in other activities. Although typical biological research labs could offer similar lessons, the magnitude and complexity of a problem in my overseas projects seemed to be more significant--from my experiences in both engineering and cancer biology labs for years.

 

[QuantumJ]

I did physics so even though it's not engineering I can share.

What other major can say they study how the universe works at a fundamental level? None really. With a few equations and some mathematical tools we can elucidate all electromagnetic phenomenon. I enjoyed every minute of learning quantum mechanics and relativist physics. I wouldn't go back and change my major even though I ended up not using it (yet).

What did I gain? The ability to solve complex problems. Given a background in mathematical techniques and a few proofs in physics, I was expected to solve new problems in my own way. Sometimes I came up with a fairly novel (to me) solution and other times I used brute strength to solve a problem. Not to upset any of the bio majors here, but I feel like my problem solving ability is leagues ahead of my colleagues I met in the bio department. Certainly the majority of MS1-2 will require brute memorization but there will come a time when we have to apply those concepts to solve problems and I feel like this could be my strength.

The coursework wasn't too much for me really. Engineers had lab seemingly every day and group projects that always ended up a person or two short so I can see how they had to put in my hours for every credit hour than I did. Still, having tests with only 3-5 problems that each took a couple sheets of paper was challenging but I feel like this means I'm not scared starting medical school. I've already accomplished a lot that I'm proud of and I'll continue to do the same in the future and if I have to adapt I will.

 

[Espadaleader]

I spent a summer with a engineering student the was in my lab. Extremely good at problem solving and working with Word, Excel, SPSS, R, MatLab etc. which is vital for statistics/research. I have been working in a lab full time for a year, and I have acquired some of these problem solving skills through hard work and having a former engineer PI but I am impressed with what engineers can do out of undergrad.

 

[moisne]

I'm not an engineer, but almost all of the ones I've been acquainted with said they did it because it was the best possible back up plan if they didn't get into medical school. They'd still be making a lot of money either way.

Exactly my thoughts. It did help with my mcat PS score. Also because I suck so much at English and History, it was the only major I probably could have done well in (chemE). It depends. If you are good at math and science - engineering will be a breeze

 

[Brownshorts]

Exactly my thoughts. It did help with my mcat PS score. Also because I suck so much at English and History, it was the only major I probably could have done well in (chemE). It depends. If you are good at math and science - engineering will be a breeze

Funny story; VR was my highest section score, and PS was my lowest. Made for an interesting talking point in interviews.

 

[moisne]

Funny story; VR was my highest section score, and PS was my lowest. Made for an interesting talking point in interviews.

What degree did you get? That is interesting. English is also my third language so it was really tough for me

 

[Brownshorts]

What degree did you get? That is interesting. English is also my third language so it was really tough for me

biomedical engineering

 

[moisne]

BME - is that a lot of bio/ochem? That seems like a very interesting major. I'm sure it will be super useful with research in the future

 

[slightlygifted]

Another physics major here....not an engineer but close enough I think.

I think that for starters my major really helped me on the mcat....things like KE=1/2mv^2 and what not are just perfectly ingrained into my mind at this point. Beyond the fact that I enjoy learning about how stuff works and how to explain it in very rigorous terms (math), I feel like completing these insane physics courses just gives me a confidence boost. It puts me in the mindset of, "I just got an A in quantum mechanics, is there really a class that I can't at least pass at this point?" So basically my major gives me some confidence and knowledge of a bunch of random stuff that might be interesting to talk about (diverse viewpoint??? or is that pushing it lol).

 

[slickwillbo]

I was a BME in undergrad at a top-5 engineering school. Applying to med school this year.

First, it definitely gave me a lower GPA. I have a 40 on the MCAT, but a 3.35 GPA at my home institution (a semester abroad brought it up to 3.41). And sure, I could've worked harder, but I know an identical work ethic would've given me a 3.8+ at a different school. To give you an idea, the average grade in my first math class (Calc II) was 2.07, and only 8% of people in my orgo I class made an A. My GPA was good enough for high honors, but of course it's low for med school. BMEs make the highest scores on the MCAT by major, so it helped there. (hopefully it's enough to pull up my GPA...). However, BME gave me an incredibly good work ethic. I'm in a PhD program now, which is much easier than undergrad, and I've worked incredibly hard in lab and kicked butt in research. I'm not a naturally gunner-type person, but my undergrad degree made me work, so working hard is now average.

Finally, it made me think about problems a different way. I now think about things very quantitatively- physics will never make you think the same way when you drive again. Multivariable calculus will make you better at thinking in the abstract. Programming will make you understand logic. Statistics will make you think probabilistically. And all of your engineering courses will make you think "How could I do or design this better?" in everything you do.

Would I do it again? Well, ask me after this application cycle 🙂

 

[moisne]

I was a BME in undergrad at a top-5 engineering school. Applying to med school this year.

First, it definitely gave me a lower GPA. I have a 40 on the MCAT, but a 3.35 GPA at my home institution (a semester abroad brought it up to 3.41). And sure, I could've worked harder, but I know an identical work ethic would've given me a 3.8+ at a different school. To give you an idea, the average grade in my first math class (Calc II) was 2.07, and only 8% of people in my orgo I class made an A. My GPA was good enough for high honors, but of course it's low for med school. BMEs make the highest scores on the MCAT by major, so it helped there. (hopefully it's enough to pull up my GPA...). However, BME gave me an incredibly good work ethic. I'm in a PhD program now, which is much easier than undergrad, and I've worked incredibly hard in lab and kicked butt in research. I'm not a naturally gunner-type person, but my undergrad degree made me work, so working hard is now average.

Finally, it made me think about problems a different way. I now think about things very quantitatively- physics will never make you think the same way when you drive again. Multivariable calculus will make you better at thinking in the abstract. Programming will make you understand logic. Statistics will make you think probabilistically. And all of your engineering courses will make you think "How could I do or design this better?" in everything you do.

Would I do it again? Well, ask me after this application cycle 🙂

So you did PhD first and now doing MD? Interesting. Are you hoping for MSTP? Or do research and medicine? How's your cycle going so far?

I didn't talk about my degree at all

 

[jjmusicman29]

Thanks for the feedback. How does an upper division engineering course differ from a lower division? I've heard from my engineer friends that the first and second years are essentially just weedout years. My major was in physics when I began and the same was true of the Waves class at my UG.

Lower division can be hard for several reasons: weed-out courses, professors who have zero clue what they're doing teaching entry-level classes, and crappy fellow students that aren't as motivated as you.

But upper division engineering courses are way harder. Some people say that the grass is greener once you're past the weed out years--it's a big fat lie. The classes will just get harder, the concepts will get harder, the homework will get longer--heck, for some classes your homework might only be group assignments. This can be awful because you have to rely on other people for your grade. I just got done doing over half the week's assignment myself because my group partners decided to just not respond to my messages the past few days, and since it's due tomorrow, I couldn't risk failing the assignment because they were being irresponsible. Stuff like that really sucks. The bright side is that the higher up you go, the nicer the grade spread tends to be (very few people outright fail classes, even if the majority is Cs)--but you still have to work like crazy because everyone else in your classes is competing with you for those top grades.

BME - is that a lot of bio/ochem? That seems like a very interesting major. I'm sure it will be super useful with research in the future

I wanted to do BME but settled into chemical engineering instead. BME is very fascinating (we do a lot of the same stuff in ChemE, but it's broadly applied as opposed to BME which focuses on application to biology/medical science).

You get a rigorous courseload in biology, organic chemistry, anatomy, etc. but you also do classes on fundamental engineering sciences that are kind of like a fusion of electrical engineering, mechanical engineering and chemical engineering focused on the human body.

Personally I'm still not 100% sure about medical school...but if I was, I would regret doing ChemE. It's way too hard. It hurt my GPA too much.

 

[moop]

Because engineering is the next big thing that makes moolah, benefits society, and generally approved of by the public.

That being said I'm in financial engineering...honestly I've always really liked working with numbers, so much so that I ditched the whole science aspect of engineering and went straight for the numbers manipulation lol. It's great.

Can't speak for the GPA too much because my school has waged a big grade deflation campaign. FE probably isn't the most intense you could get out there, though.

P.S. Save the eyerolls about Wall Street 😛 (I'm not one of those)

 

[goft20]

I am guessing they are much more employable after undergrad than i am lol

 

[moisne]

If you are good at math and science, it won't be harder. It's just more logic. I found my BS and MS in chem E to be easier than highschool - because I wasn't required to take as many English and history crap

 

[Contr0lz]

If you are good at math and science, it won't be harder. It's just more logic. I found my BS and MS in chem E to be easier than highschool - because I wasn't required to take as many English and history crap

Lol nice.

 

[moop]

If you are good at math and science, it won't be harder. It's just more logic. I found my BS and MS in chem E to be easier than highschool - because I wasn't required to take as many English and history crap

u w0t m8

 

[contender603]

I posted something about this recently in another thread about being an engineering undergrad, but I really enjoyed it. Coursework was time consuming, but I found the payoffs to be well worth it.

As to your specific questions, I originally chose it because I always excelled in math/science and the material really interested me. Like others have mentioned, it is a really solid backup plan if medical school did not work out. I didn't start taking medical school pre-req courses until my junior year so I found it very easy to get an A in those courses compared to my engineering courses (of course, everybody may not feel this way). I also loved the summer internships that I was able to partake in because of my degree.

100% would do it again.

 

[Patassa]

There's a huge difference between an Engineer and someone who's majored in engineering. A degree in engineering does not make one an Engineer.

Typically people who go into engineering are more comfortable with math and physics than the idea of memorizing large amounts of information and details. I found the coursework boring, I also found the career boring. It was not a good fit for me but I had to work so hard in ugrad for my ME degree that doing well in my post-bac. many years later was a magnitude easier than it would have been otherwise. Typically if one can get through a rigorous engineering curriculum (not all of them are, btw), then they won't struggle getting through medical school. This has been confirmed to me by adcoms and former Engineer MDs.

 

[moisne]

There's a huge difference between an Engineer and someone who's majored in engineering. A degree in engineering does not make one an Engineer.

Typically people who go into engineering are more comfortable with math and physics than the idea of memorizing large amounts of information and details. I found the coursework boring, I also found the career boring. It was not a good fit for me but I had to work so hard in ugrad for my ME degree that doing well in my post-bac. many years later was a magnitude easier than it would have been otherwise. Typically if one can get through a rigorous engineering curriculum (not all of them are, btw), then they won't struggle getting through medical school. This has been confirmed to me by adcoms and former Engineer MDs.

I really hope do as it took me more time and effort to study for a 303 anatomy class than all my engineering put together. Super worried about my ability to memorize!

 

[fuzzytoad]

Greater tolerance for alcohol.

 

[engineer16]

There's a huge difference between an Engineer and someone who's majored in engineering. A degree in engineering does not make one an Engineer.

Typically people who go into engineering are more comfortable with math and physics than the idea of memorizing large amounts of information and details. I found the coursework boring, I also found the career boring. It was not a good fit for me but I had to work so hard in ugrad for my ME degree that doing well in my post-bac. many years later was a magnitude easier than it would have been otherwise. Typically if one can get through a rigorous engineering curriculum (not all of them are, btw), then they won't struggle getting through medical school. This has been confirmed to me by adcoms and former Engineer MDs.

Very much how I felt about getting an engineering degree. Knew I would never want to be an engineer after my sophomore year and conveniently enough it prepared me for the turn into medicine after graduation.

 

[fuzzytoad]

To give a more serious answer (physics major btw, shared most upper year classes with engineering physics students):

Abstraction. All problem solving is abstraction; that is, the ability to reduce complex systems and situations into simpler frameworks while retaining the relevant properties under scrutiny. Mathematicians, physicists, computer scientists, and engineers do this using two strategies: hiding detail and analogy.

A good (if trivial) example of the former is when you say that protein A binds to protein B, hiding all detail of the underlying biochemical interaction because it is irrelevant in the context of the problem. A less trivial example would be when you use a calculator to do computation. The device abstracts the physical processes (involving logic circuits) giving you a high level symbolic representation of addition, say (a + b).

The latter is familiar whenever you see someone explain something as if it were something else - like when you think of chemical bonds as "springs" or particles as "waves" or "billiard balls". None of this is true; it just so happens that we can bridge the physics of chemical bonds and particles with springs, waves, and billiard balls using mathematics. To first approximation, the time dependent wave function of a chemical bond does, indeed, look like a simple harmonic oscillator. We can thereby understand complex systems by modelling them as less complex ones (or ones that we already understand).

Anyways this probably sounds very vague (it would probably take a much longer essay to explain in detail), but if you really think about it, all problem solving involves one or both of these strategies. Engineers (and mathematicians, physicists, etc.) tend to be very good at both because they go through the "rigorous", "analytical", process of building and understanding abstractions when they "problem solve". I use quotations, by the way, because I tend to see these phrases thrown around all the time - it's come to the point where people have so many different ideas as to what problem solving really is that it's basically a buzzword. To my understanding, though, it is quintessentially the ability to construct, manipulate, and understand abstract constructs relating to real, physical systems and situations.

 

[PistolPete3]

I second fuzzytoad's post - quite a name by the way. I am an engineer heading towards medical school in August. I would say that the best engineers and the best doctors I have worked with (medical device and aerospace industry experience) possess a similar way of framing problems. I think that both fields offer a powerful opportunity to leverage abstract problem solving in a way that helps real people in a tangible way.