Pre-med neuroticism: An advantageous trait?

[sparroow]

Hello SDN,
I would like to get yall's opinion on this.
With regards to success in gaining entry to medical schools, I have found one variable that has a high yield in predicting how successful an applicant is. And its simply how anxious/neurotic an applicant is? Of all my friends and acquaintances, the anxious ones were always on average more successful compared to my more "normal" friends.
Their anxiety pushes them to go above and beyond in obtaining very good scores, ec's, experience and most importantly INFORMATION. There is a huge difference in the amount of information they possess about the application process and medical schools and I think this is because of their neuroticism.
Of course there comes a point where this neuroticism has a debilitating effect but I'm beginning to view it as a continuum where there is an optimal amount of neuroticism that confers benefits with markedly reduced social debilitation.
Thoughts?


Disclaimer: this is all conjecture and I do not have any data backing this up.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Turkishking]

Hello SDN,
I would like to get yall's opinion on this.
With regards to success in gaining entry to medical schools, I have found one variable that has a high yield in predicting how successful an applicant is. And its simply how anxious/neurotic an applicant is? Of all my friends and acquaintances, the anxious ones were always on average more successful compared to my more "normal" friends.
Their anxiety pushes them to go above and beyond in obtaining very good scores, ec's, experience and most importantly INFORMATION. There is a huge difference in the amount of information they possess about the application process and medical schools and I think this is because of their neuroticism.
Of course there comes a point where this neuroticism has a debilitating effect but I'm beginning to view it as a continuum where there is an optimal amount of neuroticism that confers benefits with markedly reduced social debilitation.
Thoughts?


Disclaimer: this is all conjecture and I do not have any data backing this up.

I'm not sure if I would be considered neurotic. But that does sound accurate.

 

[Lucca]

Sounds like your conception of neuroticism aligns well with the "big 5" personality trait spectra from psychology.

I would agree. If we assume that from 0 to 100 neuroticism there is a minima of "social debilitation", as you define it, then yes this hypothesis seems pretty sound to me.

 

[NickNaylor]

There's undoubtedly some value in "neuroticism," where I'm assuming you're defining "neuroticism" as working hard, having high ambitions, and doing everything you can to make yourself a competitive applicant and put yourself in the best position possible for getting into a medical school. Few people "luck" into getting into great schools or being a great applicant, though I have certainly run into a few applicants that simply did interesting things and were academically bright without regard to how those things may have made them competitive applicants. That group is relatively rare, though.

This isn't a particularly novel or ground-breaking insight. It's pretty obvious: being worried about getting into medical school -> motivation to work hard to get in -> more competitive applicant -> more likely to be successful in the process.

 

[sparroow]

There's undoubtedly some value in "neuroticism," where I'm assuming you're defining "neuroticism" as working hard, having high ambitions, and doing everything you can to make yourself a competitive applicant and put yourself in the best position possible for getting into a medical school. Few people "luck" into getting into great schools or being a great applicant, though I have certainly run into a few applicants that simply did interesting things and were academically bright without regard to how those things may have made them competitive applicants. That group is relatively rare, though.

This isn't a particularly novel or ground-breaking insight. It's pretty obvious: being worried about getting into medical school -> motivation to work hard to get in -> more competitive applicant -> more likely to be successful in the process.

Not quite what I'm assuming (close tho) from my experience there is no significant difference in stats. They may work or seem to work harder but on a grand scale numerical stats are almost always identical. From what i've noticed the difference arises from an information differential (I.e, they would rather spend time on SDN researching versus going our to have a good time).
And this difference really arises from being overly worried and pessimstic about their odds of getting in, which in a way is a function of how neurotic they are.

 

[Glandzburg]

I'm not sure if I would be considered neurotic.

Yes.

 

[xffan624]

I am probably the opposite of what would qualify as neurotic. I didn't find SDN until about 2/3rds through my application cycle. After being on SDN for the last couple years, I wonder how the heck I got into medical school.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I think it's a derivative of the Yerkes-Dodson Law (google it if you don't know what it is).

Premeds who are at the "optimal level" of neuroticism are likely the most successful. Too little and you're not pushing yourself enough, too much and you're going to annoy the hell out of everyone around you and probably stress yourself out too much.

 

[Turkishking]

I think it's a derivative of the Yerkes-Dodson Law (google it if you don't know what it is).

Premeds who are at the "optimal level" of neuroticism are likely the most successful. Too little and you're not pushing yourself enough, too much and you're going to annoy the hell out of everyone around you and probably stress yourself out too much.

Uh oh.. that already happens. I do tend to annoy people about this. :/

 

[efle]

You need to be motivated to work hard, but anxiety or "study guilt" is only one form of motivation! So I'd say neurotic might be sufficient but not necessary

 

[FutureD.O]

This should describe what you believe perfectly!

 

[sparroow]

I think it's a derivative of the Yerkes-Dodson Law (google it if you don't know what it is).

Premeds who are at the "optimal level" of neuroticism are likely the most successful. Too little and you're not pushing yourself enough, too much and you're going to annoy the hell out of everyone around you and probably stress yourself out too much.

Just read up on the yerkes-dodson law, perfectly describes my thoughts 🙂

 

[LurkerLurker]

I don't know if it's fair to call it full blown neuroticism, but pretty much every physician and med student I've met has been at least somewhat type A and a bit of an over thinker. It's a blessing and a curse!

 

[familyaerospace]

I have full blown neuroticism and anxiety. I assure you, too much of anything is a bad thing. Too much anxiety WILL cause issues. Right @Goro ?

 

[Ismet]

I think it's a derivative of the Yerkes-Dodson Law (google it if you don't know what it is).

Premeds who are at the "optimal level" of neuroticism are likely the most successful. Too little and you're not pushing yourself enough, too much and you're going to annoy the hell out of everyone around you and probably stress yourself out too much.

Oh you. Beat me to posting about Yerkes-Dodson. 😛


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[zaztong]

To contrast between people high and low neuroticism, I'm going to share my story:

I'm probably the opposite of neurotic, rather than being neurotic about every unnecessary detail, I only look into necessary details and optimal work. Instead of worrying about every single class, I gave up trying to put in massive hours into getting a 4.0 GPA, I settled for a slightly lower GPA to pour more time into business, taking one or two B's with the easiest professors and planned my classes the lazy man way. I still did pretty well in the MCAT with only 3 weeks of intense self-study and practice. I also didn't do many other ECs besides shadowing to make sure I knew what I was getting into and created a 501c non-profit company in a cause I actually cared about for volunteering.

I opened two profitable businesses while in college and created an medical iPhone app for Parkinson's. Adcoms loved my pitch about changing medicine through Health IT and motivation to be a CMIO or medical entrepreneur after medical school. Adcoms asked me about the classic how business and finance goes with medicine. Yes, helping patients is important, but healthcare is a business, let's get real here, we can't take patients who can't pay/no insurance in a hospital, a hospital is simply not a charity (even some non-profit ones can't take no-pay patients in). However, we can direct them to a lot of financial assistance programs or Medicaid.

I finished my application pretty late into the cycle (in August) since my business was on a roll the whole year. I gunned my interviews with no practice besides routine elevator pitch practice for my startup. I got accepted into medical school just fine with several mid-tier acceptances and one tier-1 school acceptance.

My friend who is neurotic/OCD, does everything on the "checklist", and finished her application early. She has 4.0 GPA did not get accepted anywhere. Same MCAT - 32. She got feedback and retook her MCAT to get in this cycle. She definitely overworked herself and feels pretty burned out. Now, she's seeking mental consult. Do you think she would have got in with a lower GPA and her second MCAT score? Absolutely.

Neuroticism just makes you do a lot of work, both necessary and unnecessary. As a means to an end, fear is a strong motivator, but not the ONLY motivator, passion, love and greed are equally strong motivators. I wouldn't say neuroticism is necessarily an advantageous trait though. It can be a burden in terms of the bigger picture. You could burn out, you could miss the bigger picture, you could sink into depression. I guess if you are extremely neurotic, do everything both necessary and unnecessary, like follow an exhausting checklist of ECs you don't necessarily like, perfect GPA/near perfect MCAT, and practice really really hard on the interview, they can't say no though.

But then you'd probably be under extreme stress- if you're not above average (or better) in book smarts and high on neuroticism. You are going into medical school and residency with even more stress, plus whatever self-induced stress your neuroticism brings in. That is counterproductive.

What's the point of losing your health? It is most ironic for a doctor with poor health that cannot heal oneself. There are better jobs than being a doctor with much less stress that you could get by with much much less work and equally rewarding if you're neurotic and need to work hard to extreme levels just to get into medical school. A lot of your efforts are wasted into experiences that don't necessarily increase value. Think about how much you actually forget and never use again in your life.