Pre-med Osteopathic Advice

[CJhooper123]

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Looking for some thoughts here...

Goal: acceptance to DO school.
Resume:
cGPA=3.05, sGPA=2.83 (top liberal arts school) --> strong upward trend
MCAT=504 (126, 122, 127, 129) - had a bad day, was averaging ~508 on AAMC tests
EC's=2000+ hrs of shadowing (medical scribe), secretary for my local hospital's M&M meetings, research, EMT, medical blog writer, publication in otolaryngology text, D1 athlete x 4 years

I've got my work cut out this summer. My main issue is addressing my GPA - My advisor recommended taking "difficult science" classes and performing well in them. He felt I did not necessarily need an entire PB, although I was accepted to UPenn's specialized health program

Below are my options.

A) Live at home in Mass, take 6-7 science classes at Harvard Extension and/or Tufts (spend ~$18,000 in tuition), and retake MCAT spring 2018

B) Retake MCAT May 2017, attend UPenn's specialized health program summer 2017 (spend ~$40,000 in tuition and living expenses)

I feel like Upenn would give me the best shot at getting in... but Upenn is tough for me, as I am paying undergrad student loans (~$50,000). Does attending a formal PB really matter that much? My advisor says I should just focus on taking touch science classes?

 

[dwgrubbs1s]

Ehhh. I am not an expert so take my advice with a grain of salt. There are several factors to consider. 1.) How easy will it be to raise you cGPA/sGPA? I had a lot of college credit hours so a bunch of A's did not budge mine an awful lot. However, someone with less college credits could get A's and it have a larger impact on the GPA. How high do you think you could pull your GPA up by taking classes outside a post bacc? What about without? 2.) Your EC's look good and that is always pretty important. 3.) Your MCAT doesn't set the world on fire but is definitely good enough for many D.O. schools. The 122 in CARS may be a little unattractive but the 127 in science looks good. I do not know if it is enough to offset the CARS but I have seen cases where people have had that low of CARS and have been fine. People will debate whether you need to retake or whatever, but personally I would say it is okay (again I am not an expert). Final thoughts: Depending on what science classes you have left, I would look at the self repair option as it appears to be the cheaper of the two. The post bacc would put you at around $90,000 in debt without a guaranteed acceptance to medical school. If you feel you can do better on the CARS, possibly retake MCAT. If you do not feel you could have done anything differently to prepare, then forget it. With your EC's and strong upward trend, applying broadly would likely get you some II's somewhere (and an acceptance).

 

[CJhooper123]

Ehhh. I am not an expert so take my advice with a grain of salt. There are several factors to consider. 1.) How easy will it be to raise you cGPA/sGPA? I had a lot of college credit hours so a bunch of A's did not budge mine an awful lot. However, someone with less college credits could get A's and it have a larger impact on the GPA. How high do you think you could pull your GPA up by taking classes outside a post bacc? What about without? 2.) Your EC's look good and that is always pretty important. 3.) Your MCAT doesn't set the world on fire but is definitely good enough for many D.O. schools. The 122 in CARS may be a little unattractive but the 127 in science looks good. I do not know if it is enough to offset the CARS but I have seen cases where people have had that low of CARS and have been fine. People will debate whether you need to retake or whatever, but personally I would say it is okay (again I am not an expert). Final thoughts: Depending on what science classes you have left, I would look at the self repair option as it appears to be the cheaper of the two. The post bacc would put you at around $90,000 in debt without a guaranteed acceptance to medical school. If you feel you can do better on the CARS, possibly retake MCAT. If you do not feel you could have done anything differently to prepare, then forget it. With your EC's and strong upward trend, applying broadly would likely get you some II's somewhere (and an acceptance).

That seems reasonable - thank you for contributing.
I have taken all the pre-req science courses, which is a lot of credits. Both UPenn's PB and the "DIY self-repair" would result in very similar GPA changes (as long as I got the same grades). Based on calculations, I could get my sGPA >3.0, which would be pretty big.

I guess I just want to make sure that a DIY PB is not considered "inferior" when compared to a formal PB if you are taking the same level/number of courses.

 

[I'mJustCurious]

If you are going to those schools only for the name, then I strongly suggest you to rethink your route. My advice would take upper level science classes nearby or do an SMP. If money is an issue then choose the cheap route of DIY post-bac. As long as you show that you can handle medical school by acing upper level courses then you will get some love from medical schools.

 

[Mosonik]

Looking for some thoughts here...

Goal: acceptance to DO school.
Resume:
cGPA=3.05, sGPA=2.83 (top liberal arts school) --> strong upward trend
MCAT=504 (126, 122, 127, 129) - had a bad day, was averaging ~508 on AAMC tests
EC's=2000+ hrs of shadowing (medical scribe), secretary for my local hospital's M&M meetings, research, EMT, medical blog writer, publication in otolaryngology text, D1 athlete x 4 years

I've got my work cut out this summer. My main issue is addressing my GPA - My advisor recommended taking "difficult science" classes and performing well in them. He felt I did not necessarily need an entire PB, although I was accepted to UPenn's specialized health program

Below are my options.

A) Live at home in Mass, take 6-7 science classes at Harvard Extension and/or Tufts (spend ~$18,000 in tuition), and retake MCAT spring 2018

B) Retake MCAT May 2017, attend UPenn's specialized health program summer 2017 (spend ~$40,000 in tuition and living expenses)

I feel like Upenn would give me the best shot at getting in... but Upenn is tough for me, as I am paying undergrad student loans (~$50,000). Does attending a formal PB really matter that much? My advisor says I should just focus on taking touch science classes?

There's some contradictions between your plan to go the DO route and the fact you are pursuing "name recognition" routes to get there. And I say that primarily so you can think through what exactly you are going after.

If you are genuinely wanting to go the DO route (which I have to presume here), name recognition is irrelevant. Name game only works with those who play by its rules and DO programs aren't really impressed by this for what its worth, as they are more mission driven overall.

Realistically, you need to up your GPA to receive consideration and your MCAT also should be stronger as well to compensate. As is, neither gives an adcom much confidence which I assume you know. I think your best shot is to do a post-bacc program at a DO institution and show you are capable. Their familiarity with you, along with you making a strong showing of your abilities in that program, will be the best chance to overcome weaker statistics. I wish you the best!

 

[CJhooper123]

There's some contradictions between your plan to go the DO route and the fact you are pursuing "name recognition" routes to get there. And I say that primarily so you can think through what exactly you are going after.

If you are genuinely wanting to go the DO route (which I have to presume here), name recognition is irrelevant. Name game only works with those who play by its rules and DO programs aren't really impressed by this for what its worth, as they are more mission driven overall.

Realistically, you need to up your GPA to receive consideration and your MCAT also should be stronger as well to compensate. As is, neither gives an adcom much confidence which I assume you know. I think your best shot is to do a post-bacc program at a DO institution and show you are capable. Their familiarity with you, along with you making a strong showing of your abilities in that program, will be the best chance to overcome weaker statistics. I wish you the best!

Thanks for the response.

I guess the name recognition factor isn't as important as getting good grades. HAE, Tufts, and UPenn were programs recommended by my advisor - he said students in similar situations as myself had success in such programs. HAE/Tufts are convenient because they are ~30 minutes from my house and very affordable. UPenn is ~$27,000, which is substantially cheaper than many SMP programs.

Just want to make sure... proceeding with a DIY post-bacc here won't hurt my chances (assuming I do well).

 

[Mosonik]

Thanks for the response.

I guess the name recognition factor isn't as important as getting good grades. HAE, Tufts, and UPenn were programs recommended by my advisor - he said students in similar situations as myself had success in such programs. HAE/Tufts are convenient because they are ~30 minutes from my hours and very affordable. UPenn is ~$27,000, which is substantially cheaper than many SMP programs.

Just want to make sure... proceeding with a DIY post-bacc here won't hurt my chances (assuming I do well).

No, the place of your post-bacc shouldn't hurt you. Though again, I think you can maximize your chances by going to one associated with a program you'd be willing/interested in matriculating to as a med student. Though for convenience and proximity I understand your reasoning.
I've always found pre-med advisors to give too generic of advice so I'd take every thing they say with a grain of salt. Each person's case is unique and "success" comes by each person differently. Good luck to you!

 

[I'mJustCurious]

Thanks for the response.

I guess the name recognition factor isn't as important as getting good grades. HAE, Tufts, and UPenn were programs recommended by my advisor - he said students in similar situations as myself had success in such programs. HAE/Tufts are convenient because they are ~30 minutes from my house and very affordable. UPenn is ~$27,000, which is substantially cheaper than many SMP programs.

Just want to make sure... proceeding with a DIY post-bacc here won't hurt my chances (assuming I do well).

I was going to cough up $20,000+ to go to Harvard Extension School but decided to spend $5,000 to do a DIY post-bac instead

 

[CJhooper123]

I was going to cough up $20,000+ to go to Harvard Extension School but decided to spend $5,000 to do a DIY post-bac instead

Just curious... was your DIY completed in Massachusetts? If so, what school(s) did you use? I know Tufts, BU, and Northeastern also offer courses.

 

[gamieg]

where you do a postbac generally doesn't matter unless that postbac/SMP has linkages. go to the least financially straining program that will offer grade improvement, take upper division science coursework full-time to demonstrate you can handle the rigor.

your 122 in CARS will hurt you. I know it's painful because you did well in the other subsections, but I think if you retake and hit at least a 125/126 in CARS without tanking any other section, it'll show your ability to improve and resilience. I strongly recommend it, especially if you want to aim for well-established programs.

 

[CJhooper123]

where you do a postbac generally doesn't matter unless that postbac/SMP has linkages. go to the least financially straining program that will offer grade improvement, take upper division science coursework full-time to demonstrate you can handle the rigor.

your 122 in CARS will hurt you. I know it's painful because you did well in the other subsections, but I think if you retake and hit at least a 125/126 in CARS without tanking any other section, it'll show your ability to improve and resilience. I strongly recommend it, especially if you want to aim for well-established programs.

Much appreciation.
I really need to improve in CARS. I felt that I underperformed in my sciences as well on my 1/28/17 test. I am hoping to be ready for a May 19th MCAT date - Just need to figure out CARS first

 

[I'mJustCurious]

Just curious... was your DIY completed in Massachusetts? If so, what school(s) did you use? I know Tufts, BU, and Northeastern also offer courses.

I'm currently doing my DIY. I'm not even from Massachusetts, I cared too much on the name of the school but talked to my trusted advisor and he told me to just stay home and go to school. You got a good chance at medical schools you just need to choose which route is the best fit for you.

 

[Goro]

Option A has been enough for people to get IIs to my school.

Looking for some thoughts here...

Goal: acceptance to DO school.
Resume:
cGPA=3.05, sGPA=2.83 (top liberal arts school) --> strong upward trend
MCAT=504 (126, 122, 127, 129) - had a bad day, was averaging ~508 on AAMC tests
EC's=2000+ hrs of shadowing (medical scribe), secretary for my local hospital's M&M meetings, research, EMT, medical blog writer, publication in otolaryngology text, D1 athlete x 4 years

I've got my work cut out this summer. My main issue is addressing my GPA - My advisor recommended taking "difficult science" classes and performing well in them. He felt I did not necessarily need an entire PB, although I was accepted to UPenn's specialized health program

Below are my options.

A) Live at home in Mass, take 6-7 science classes at Harvard Extension and/or Tufts (spend ~$18,000 in tuition), and retake MCAT spring 2018

B) Retake MCAT May 2017, attend UPenn's specialized health program summer 2017 (spend ~$40,000 in tuition and living expenses)

I feel like Upenn would give me the best shot at getting in... but Upenn is tough for me, as I am paying undergrad student loans (~$50,000). Does attending a formal PB really matter that much? My advisor says I should just focus on taking touch science classes?

 

[CJhooper123]

I'm currently doing my DIY. I'm not even from Massachusetts, I cared too much on the name of the school but talked to my trusted advisor and he told me to just stay home and go to school. You got a good chance at medical schools you just need to choose which route is the best fit for you.

Option A has been enough for people to get IIs to my school.

Thank you for the advice. Will likely proceed with staying local. It will also allow me to continue my jobs as a medical scribe and M&M secretary.

 

[Munchkinman1]

I agree with retaking the MCAT to do better on CARS. But spending another 40 grand to get your grades up sounds unnecessary. I'd call a few DO schools, talk to an admissions counselor, and see which courses you should retake and if a community college would be fine. Might want to space it out too. MCAT, work, and school at the same time is a lot.

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

Does attending a formal PB really matter that much?

No. I did an informal post-bacc at my public undergraduate institution and received 9 II this cycle. As long as you bring your GPA to above 3.0 and crush your science classes I think you have a good shot at nabbing an acceptance. I don't see the need to complete an expensive post-bacc away from home when all that really needs addressing is your sGPA. Retaking the MCAT is also not completely necessary but if you feel confident that you can do better, than go for it.

BTW my informal post-bacc only cost me around 5,000$ and I even took 2 courses at a Community college because the seats were full at my University. As long as it is a decent school, DO programs won't care much about the prestige.

 

[CJhooper123]

No. I did an informal post-bacc at my public undergraduate institution and received 9 II this cycle. As long as you bring your GPA to above 3.0 and crush your science classes I think you have a good shot at nabbing an acceptance. I don't see the need to complete an expensive post-bacc away from home when all that really needs addressing is your sGPA. Retaking the MCAT is also not completely necessary but if you feel confident that you can do better, than go for it.

BTW my informal post-bacc only cost me around 5,000$ and I even took 2 courses at a Community college because the seats were full at my University. As long as it is a decent school, DO programs won't care much about the prestige.

Thank you for the advice.

Do you think that my MCAT is good enough for an acceptance? I scored a 504, but a 122 in CARS - I was under the assumption this was an auto-rejection. I seriously doubt whether I can improve my CARS score... especially as I already completed Jack Westin's course.

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

If you're aiming for DO, then 503-505 is about the mean matriculant MCAT at most DO programs, however, since your GPA is so low you might need to score higher in order to compensate. I do think that you can get in with that score as long as you ace your post-bacc and you have a significant upward trend, however, if you don't want to leave anything to chance then retake and improve.

 

[John1513]

Looking for some thoughts here...

Goal: acceptance to DO school.
Resume:
cGPA=3.05, sGPA=2.83 (top liberal arts school) --> strong upward trend
MCAT=504 (126, 122, 127, 129) - had a bad day, was averaging ~508 on AAMC tests
EC's=2000+ hrs of shadowing (medical scribe), secretary for my local hospital's M&M meetings, research, EMT, medical blog writer, publication in otolaryngology text, D1 athlete x 4 years

I've got my work cut out this summer. My main issue is addressing my GPA - My advisor recommended taking "difficult science" classes and performing well in them. He felt I did not necessarily need an entire PB, although I was accepted to UPenn's specialized health program

Below are my options.

A) Live at home in Mass, take 6-7 science classes at Harvard Extension and/or Tufts (spend ~$18,000 in tuition), and retake MCAT spring 2018

B) Retake MCAT May 2017, attend UPenn's specialized health program summer 2017 (spend ~$40,000 in tuition and living expenses)

I feel like Upenn would give me the best shot at getting in... but Upenn is tough for me, as I am paying undergrad student loans (~$50,000). Does attending a formal PB really matter that much? My advisor says I should just focus on taking touch science classes?

Make sure you shadow a D.O.
Be able to explain osteopathic medicine without sounding like a generic google search.

Apply.
At same time study for retake of MCAT as a back up.
My buddy almost failed out college several times. He ended up being class president of our class in Med school. He finished anesthesiology.
Have faith, dig deep.
Good luck!