Pre-medical fraternity negative connotation?

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GCS-15

GCS-15

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Hi everyone - I've been in a pre-med frat for about 2 years and have done an ok amount of leadership in it. My question is: when I apply to med school, should I list this as one of my activities? Do these frats have a negative connotation for ADCOMS? I've heard rumors that some admissions people think these pre-med frats only exist for parties and old tests (definitely not the reason I joined)

Also - how do I tag people? lol I wanted to tag gyngyn, Goro, and LizzyM

Thanks!
 
GCS-15 said:
Hi everyone - I've been in a pre-med frat for about 2 years and have done an ok amount of leadership in it. My question is: when I apply to med school, should I list this as one of my activities? Do these frats have a negative connotation for ADCOMS? I've heard rumors that some admissions people think these pre-med frats only exist for parties and old tests (definitely not the reason I joined)

Also - how do I tag people? lol I wanted to tag gyngyn, Goro, and LizzyM

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think what adcoms would care way more about is social fraternities due to their stereotype as clubs that only party. As far as I know, pre-med fraternities are just seen as "meh", orgs that don't really do anything for your application.
 
I ignore any frat-related activities on apps.

GCS-15 said:
Hi everyone - I've been in a pre-med frat for about 2 years and have done an ok amount of leadership in it. My question is: when I apply to med school, should I list this as one of my activities? Do these frats have a negative connotation for ADCOMS? I've heard rumors that some admissions people think these pre-med frats only exist for parties and old tests (definitely not the reason I joined)

Also - how do I tag people? lol I wanted to tag gyngyn, Goro, and LizzyM

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
If you had a great experience and perhaps served a leadership role, then I would absolutely add it. I was in phi delta epsilon for four years and we had great leadership that set us up with volunteer, shadowing, research opportunities, etc. I listed it on my activities because it had a big impact on my decision to continue pursuing medical school and gave me some other opportunities to speak with professionals about their lives and their choices. (Our group also set up for different specialties to come speak about their jobs).

The bottom line: when it comes to listing activities on your app, it's all about how you describe it. If your premed frat did nothing and rarely met, then you likely won't be able to describe it in any meaningful way. If it helped you and shaped your choices and was valuable to you, then list it and describe it as such. No adcom is going to automatically assume that it was a waste of time and your description of the experience will be what they take away from it.

Edit: This is just my opinion and comes from being interviewed at 4 schools, one being a top 10. All of them asked me about my experience and were interested in knowing more, so it seemed like they didn't immediately write it off as an experience. Accepted at one of them so far.
 
They don't have a negative "connotation". They have a stigma -- at least on SDN. They're associated with gunners and app padding. I don't think many adcoms will be affected by this stigma and will likely not care very much if you are or are not in a premed club frat.

Tag someone by typing "@" before their username.
 
I was in one of those fraternities during my first semester but quickly realize it wasn't for me. The way I look at it is this...will it help you get into medical school? Maybe, but it will do that by giving you access to old exams, volunteering opportunities, etc. It is indirect. Listing the fraternity itself will not do a whole lot in my mind.
 
Goro said:
I ignore any frat-related activities on apps.
Click to expand...

Goro, you say you ignore Frat related things on app.... What about affiliation with Phi Delta Epsilon, the pre-medical fraternity?
 
Goro said:
I ignore any frat-related activities on apps.
Click to expand...
That seems a little extreme to outright ignore all activities fraternity related due to a stereotype/stigma people have against fraternities...
 
I was in Phi Delta Epsilon, and rather than put PhiDE directly as one of my 15 activities, I chose as one of my fifteen a of the volunteering programs that I frequently participated in through PhiDE, and in the description, said that I participated in it through a pre-med fraternity. I didn't feel like it was worth adding as its own activity.
 
andybshaker said:
I was in one of those fraternities during my first semester but quickly realize it wasn't for me. The way I look at it is this...will it help you get into medical school? Maybe, but it will do that by giving you access to old exams, volunteering opportunities, etc. It is indirect. Listing the fraternity itself will not do a whole lot in my mind.
Click to expand...

There's a lot more to a decent fraternity than that, you one should gain some decent life skills if it's worth anything. I doubt just listing it on an app would do any good though.

Pastamahn said:
That seems a little extreme to outright ignore all activities fraternity related due to a stereotype/stigma people have against fraternities...
Click to expand...

It's more than extreme, it's somewhat discriminatory. I know the fraternity I was in did far more for the student body, campus, and community than 90% of the non-greek groups at our campus, and there were a lot. If I had applied to @Goro 's school, then he would have to ignored over 100 shadowing hours, 500 volunteer hours and $5,000 in donations to St. Jude's from projects I ran.
 
Apparently my pre-med frat sucks, we didn't even have a test bank. (Not that I would've used it if we did, not a fan of test banks).
 
Lol PhiDE. If you're joining because of volunteering opportunities, you can find them on your own. It's not like any chapter has an inside line on any sort of position. It's a glorified premed listserv.
 
Stagg737 said:
There's a lot more to a decent fraternity than that, you one should gain some decent life skills if it's worth anything. I doubt just listing it on an app would do any good though.



It's more than extreme, it's somewhat discriminatory. I know the fraternity I was in did far more for the student body, campus, and community than 90% of the non-greek groups at our campus, and there were a lot. If I had applied to @Goro 's school, then he would have to ignored over 100 shadowing hours, 500 volunteer hours and $5,000 in donations to St. Jude's from projects I ran.
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I completely agree. A huge chunk of my community service, leadership and campus involvement came from my social fraternity. With all of that ignored, my app would have been completely dead in the water.
 
If you state that you did this on your app, that's all the more positive for you.

But people do this without being in frats. Where's the catch for me as an Adcom that your frat membership was a plus? Other than drinking to excess and vomiting all over your boaters.

So merely saying "I did 600 hrs of good deeds in my frat"...tell me what you did! You get rewarded for that.

Stagg737 said:
It's more than extreme, it's somewhat discriminatory. I know the fraternity I was in did far more for the student body, campus, and community than 90% of the non-greek groups at our campus, and there were a lot. If I had applied to @Goro 's school, then he would have to ignored over 100 shadowing hours, 500 volunteer hours and $5,000 in donations to St. Jude's from projects I ran.
Click to expand...
 
If you had a leadership role, it might be worth a mention in questions targeted toward that. Otherwise probably leave it out. Most won't care but a handful of people harbor negative connotations.
 
Goro said:
Where's the catch for me as an Adcom that your frat membership was a plus? Other than drinking to excess and vomiting all over your boaters.
Click to expand...
It's refreshing to know that stereotypes aren't held against us by adcoms in this process.
 
I could have taken the knife out and mentioned something about raping drunk or drugged co-eds, hhhmmmm?

But seriously, being in a fraternity should contribute what that would impress an Adcom member?


Pastamahn said:
It's refreshing to know that stereotypes aren't held against us by adcoms in this process.
Click to expand...


I get that, but if you not been in a frat, you wouldn't have done this at all? Really? And since some of you aren't getting what I'm driving at, I don't ding people for being in frats, I just don't add extra points for it. It's the stuff you do that counts, not the organization you joined.

A huge chunk of my community service, leadership and campus involvement came from my social fraternity.
 
Pastamahn said:
... A huge chunk of my community service, leadership and campus involvement came from my social fraternity...
Click to expand...

As Goro points out it didn't come "from" your social fraternity, it came "through" your social fraternity. Meaning if you didn't do those things in the fraternity setting you hopefully could have shined in another setting -- the fraternity was just the route you chose. And that's fine if you mention it in the context of questions as to leadership or volunteerism. But other than that I'd leave it out because the perception and probably reality is that fraternities tend to be 80% social and 20% charitable and leadership, and so membership itself isn't a big positive. Plus you may end up with an Adcom member who didn't get a bid or had other bad experiences or maybe just saw Animal House or Revenge of the Nerds too many times, who harbors resentment.
 
Goro said:
I get that, but if you not been in a frat, you wouldn't have done this at all? Really? And since some of you aren't getting what I'm driving at, I don't ding people for being in frats, I just don't add extra points for it. It's the stuff you do that counts, not the organization you joined.

A huge chunk of my community service, leadership and campus involvement came from my social fraternity.
Click to expand...

I guess my question would be, if a person listed "president/VP/treasurer for fraternity X", would you just disregard it? I get why just being in a frat won't help, but it's the same for any activity. I know people that were in a volunteer club called "Athletes Giving Back" but did zero volunteer hours. To me just being in any group or club is worthless (unless it's an honor society/program), so is there a reason just being a member of club X would look better than just being a member of frat X?
 
Goro said:
Nope. I like to see people doing things, rather than being part of things.
Click to expand...
So if I tell you that I manage a residence unit with 50-75 people, budget and order all household supplies, hire and management a volunteer staff, do the books and coordinate with college administration you would discount it because it happened in a house with Greek letters? So glad not all adcoms feel the same way.
 
7331poas said:
Anyone that likes being able to fall asleep before 3AM on a college campus does not like frat boys. Id leave it out
Click to expand...
Goro said:
I could have taken the knife out and mentioned something about raping drunk or drugged co-eds, hhhmmmm?
Click to expand...
People preach about not giving into believing in stereotypes on this website, but here we are with people and an adcom buying into the fraternity stereotype to the point of dismissing all fraternity related activities on an application. Honestly, that's pretty ridiculous.
 
raiderette said:
So if I tell you that I manage a residence unit with 50-75 people, budget and order all household supplies, hire and management a volunteer staff, do the books and coordinate with college administration you would discount it because it happened in a house with Greek letters? So glad not all adcoms feel the same way.
Click to expand...

Except PhiDE has no residence house. It's not a real frat. Any adcom member worth their salt will know this.
 
Pastamahn said:
People preach about not giving into believing in stereotypes on this website, but here we are with people and an adcom buying into the fraternity stereotype to the point of dismissing all fraternity related activities on an application. Honestly, that's pretty ridiculous.
Click to expand...

What's ridiculous would be applying without considering the biases of the people reading your applications.
 
7331poas said:
What's ridiculous would be applying without considering the biases of the people reading your applications.
Click to expand...
I guess I'm just a hopeless optimist in thinking that extreme stereotypes about groups of people and organizations won't be taken into account when making admissions decisions. Apparently, I'm wrong.
 
It shows that you have a job and you're responsible, which is admirable. The frat part is irrelevant.

And you're not paying attention. You don't get points from me for merely being in a frat. But you don't lose points.

Capeesh?

raiderette said:
So if I tell you that I manage a residence unit with 50-75 people, budget and order all household supplies, hire and management a volunteer staff, do the books and coordinate with college administration you would discount it because it happened in a house with Greek letters? So glad not all adcoms feel the same way.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Goro said:
It shows that you have a job and you're responsible, which is admirable. The frat part is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't have had that opportunity if it wasn't at the sorority. I also had to work, volunteer, etc so I could finish school before my scholarship ran out. I am just saying that you should not assume that all Greek leadership is crap.
 
Pastamahn said:
I guess I'm just a hopeless optimist in thinking that extreme stereotypes about groups of people and organizations won't be taken into account when making admissions decisions. Apparently, I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

We will have to agree to disagree. I have never had a single positive experience interacting with frat boys and that has shaped my reality. Unfortunately my biases will always judge frat members in that light.
 
You know, good reading comprehension skills are vital for the MCAT and for med school.

I never said what you do in the frat was crap, just that unless you document what you did, you don't get brownie points for merely being in the frat.

My answer to your first sentence is "So?". It's on you to find those opportunities.


raiderette said:
I wouldn't have had that opportunity if it wasn't at the sorority. I also had to work, volunteer, etc so I could finish school before my scholarship ran out. I am just saying that you should not assume that all Greek leadership is crap.
Click to expand...
 
7331poas said:
We will have to agree to disagree. I have never had a single positive experience interacting with frat boys and that has shaped my reality. Unfortunately my biases will always judge frat members in that light.
Click to expand...

Then you've either had a very limited amount of interaction with frat boys, or a very large amount of interaction with the same group of them. I've had far more negative experiences with non-fraternity/sorority members than with greek members. Sorry to hear your experience has been so one-sided.
 
Hey hey what about those AOA frat boys/girls? Who's gonna keep em in line huh?🙄
 
I actually listed my role in a premed frat on my application. At least for my chapter, I felt that we did plenty of professional events and philanthropy. I did things like mentor younger members, organize events with physicians/professors, and lead volunteering groups and a tour of a local medical school... where is this negative connotation coming from? Just because it has "fraternity" in the name? It's not a social fraternity, and it's dry too.

@Lost in Translation - just curious, not trying to get defensive, but what happened with ΦΔΕ to make you want to use your signature to criticize it?
 
My sig was actually posted by someone else in an old thread that also brought up PhiDE. But my own experience with PhiDE at my alma mater was that all the attention-whoring pre-meds would join it and make a big deal out of being in it.
 
I'm really not getting all the fuss in this thread. Any club or organization that you simply state on your application as being a "member of" without showing any extensive volunteer hours underneath it is going to be looked over and carry little weight.

Saying you are a member of XYZ club is no different than saying you are a member of XYZ fraternity, both of them carry no weight and say nothing about you or what you did. That's the point, this isn't new. It's always been like that lol nobody is saying that significant experiences will be ignored. I think the only organization name that exists on colleges that would carry any weight would be something like AmeriCorps. Why? Because everyone knows AmeriCorps members do a buttload of volunteer hours. Again, it's about what you DID.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe some of you are butt hurt about that because I know pledging for a sorority/fraternity is often a semester long process requiring many hours and commitment in itself. I think it is widely understood how much time and effort can go into pledging. But I'm sorry to tell you, just because you took all of that time to pledge for a sorority/frat does not make you look any better than the pre-med who strolled into XYZ club and became a member of a random volunteer org. They're both on the same level; the difference lies in what the individuals DO in the organization not the name of it.
 
I was in a social frat, great experience, but I did not list it on my application. I did not volunteer as much as the rest of the brothers since I am research-focused and did pretty cookie cutter volunteering.
 
Lollygag said:
I'm really not getting all the fuss in this thread. Any club or organization that you simply state on your application as being a "member of" without showing any extensive volunteer hours underneath it is going to be looked over and carry little weight.

Saying you are a member of XYZ club is no different than saying you are a member of XYZ fraternity, both of them carry no weight and say nothing about you or what you did. That's the point, this isn't new. It's always been like that lol nobody is saying that significant experiences will be ignored. I think the only organization name that exists on colleges that would carry any weight would be something like AmeriCorps. Why? Because everyone knows AmeriCorps members do a buttload of volunteer hours. Again, it's about what you DID.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe some of you are butt hurt about that because I know pledging for a sorority/fraternity is often a semester long process requiring many hours and commitment in itself. I think it is widely understood how much time and effort can go into pledging. But I'm sorry to tell you, just because you took all of that time to pledge for a sorority/frat does not make you look any better than the pre-med who strolled into XYZ club and became a member of a random volunteer org. They're both on the same level; the difference lies in what the individuals DO in the organization not the name of it.
Click to expand...
The problem many people have right now is this quote
Goro said:
I ignore any frat-related activities on apps.
Click to expand...
This makes it seem like adcoms would completely disregard any activities on the app that were done under or affiliated with a fraternity. But I will agree that simply stating your membership in one will do nothing.
 
Pastamahn said:
The problem many people have right now is this quote

This makes it seem like adcoms would completely disregard any activities on the app that were done under or affiliated with a fraternity. But I will agree that simply stating your membership in one will do nothing.
Click to expand...

I don't think that this is fair.

Admissions committee members rely on their experiences to try to pick out a medical school class. For the most part what we think/do is pretty regimented, likely 90%+ overlap about how we think/what we value/how much we value it, etc. That other 10% can simply be different. For example, I have a fairly extensive research background. The way that I evaluate/consider people's research experiences is going to be drastically different than others on the same committee that haven't spent the better part of a decade involved in research. Some people will give bonus points to an Eagle scout or Veteran etc, simply because of their background or their experiences over several seasons with similar successful applicants. At the end of the day, it is an informed opinion that is generated, but it is always an opinion. I think that @Goro (correct me if wrong) wrote a single one line that could have used a little clarification. If you ignore his clarifications, then I can understand having a problem with that quotes. But, that seems rather silly to me.

I also tend to be rather skeptical of greek affiliations. Not because I don't have dozens of colleagues that were greek and were positively affected by it, but because it doesn't mean anything by itself and yet the pride that comes along with specific groups can be astounding. If you do positive things while a part of the frat, that is great and we obviously want to see those things. But, the overwhelming majority of the time, those things have nothing to do with the frat itself.
 
Keep in mind that this is merely my opinion.

But to me, writing on your app

Alpha-Alpha-Alpha member 1000 hrs

doesn't do anything because it doesn't say anything.

But writing
500 hrs home renovation in poor neighborhoods
100 hrs fundraising for American Cancer Soc.
400 hr tutoring low income middle schoolers
all under during membership of Alpha-Alpha-Alpha


that says something!

Capeesh?

And if anyone still can't understand what I'm trying to say, read the very wise Mimelim's comments:

I also tend to be rather skeptical of greek affiliations. Not because I don't have dozens of colleagues that were greek and were positively affected by it, but because it doesn't mean anything by itself and yet the pride that comes along with specific groups can be astounding. If you do positive things while a part of the frat, that is great and we obviously want to see those things. But, the overwhelming majority of the time, those things have nothing to do with the frat itself.


Pastamahn said:
This makes it seem like adcoms would completely disregard any activities on the app that were done under or affiliated with a fraternity. But I will agree that simply stating your membership in one will do nothing.
Click to expand...
 
Pastamahn said:
The problem many people have right now is this quote

This makes it seem like adcoms would completely disregard any activities on the app that were done under or affiliated with a fraternity. But I will agree that simply stating your membership in one will do nothing.
Click to expand...

Yea I saw that quote and I can understand the confusion from that ONE quote but if one reads past that ONE quote you'll see it was clarified FOUR freaking times after that lol

I'm just saying... Lol

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Goro said:
If you state that you did this on your app, that's all the more positive for you.

But people do this without being in frats. Where's the catch for me as an Adcom that your frat membership was a plus? Other than drinking to excess and vomiting all over your boaters.

So merely saying "I did 600 hrs of good deeds in my frat"...tell me what you did! You get rewarded for that.
Click to expand...

Goro said:
I could have taken the knife out and mentioned something about raping drunk or drugged co-eds, hhhmmmm?

But seriously, being in a fraternity should contribute what that would impress an Adcom member?





I get that, but if you not been in a frat, you wouldn't have done this at all? Really? And since some of you aren't getting what I'm driving at, I don't ding people for being in frats, I just don't add extra points for it. It's the stuff you do that counts, not the organization you joined.

A huge chunk of my community service, leadership and campus involvement came from my social fraternity.
Click to expand...

Goro said:
It shows that you have a job and you're responsible, which is admirable. The frat part is irrelevant.

And you're not paying attention. You don't get points from me for merely being in a frat. But you don't lose points.

Capeesh?
Click to expand...

Goro said:
You know, good reading comprehension skills are vital for the MCAT and for med school.

I never said what you do in the frat was crap, just that unless you document what you did, you don't get brownie points for merely being in the frat.

My answer to your first sentence is "So?". It's on you to find those opportunities.
Click to expand...
 
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