Pregnancy and Timing of Application

[fallen625]

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Hi all,

I have a pretty unusual situation that got me really debating on whether to apply for Clinical Psychology Grad School this year or not. I am pregnant, and would be 24-28 weeks pregnant by the time of interviews (ei impossible to hide). I am a non-traditional student in the sense that I currently work in invesment banking (I graduated a year ago and have been working in it since) and I am planning to do a career change (sort of, I was a psych major and did research in college). Unfortunately, because of the hours of my job I would probably have to quit in January. So this leaves me with

a) Applying now and interviewing pregnant

b) Applying in a year and having to explain a 1 year gap on my resume
c) Trying to secure a probably unpaid RA position in my field and applying this year. Note that this might be hard if I am interviewing pregnant, and I am not jsure if I can justify us paying for child care / not staying at home for an unpaid position

I am not sure if this makes a difference at all, but I would consider myself a pretty strong candidate. 3.85 GPA / Honors Thesis / 2 + years of resarch experience / 2nd author publication / want to keep studying in the field I did research in college / GRE 620 V and 770M. Would really appreciate any advice!

 

[Butterfly6]

I say go ahead and apply now. One of my fellow cohort members was very (35+ weeks maybe?) pregnant during the interview. Having a child myself, the only reservation that I feel you should make is to consider how much you want to be around your child during their first year. Since quite a bit of time is spent studying and reading, you may want to consider factoring in a baby who may not be on your same schedule. On the other hand, babies tend to sleep more in their first year and start toddling around in their 2nd year so you might not want to wait. Also, I had a few gaps in my CV due to children and was never questioned on any of them before, during or after the interview. Your qualifications seem good enough that I would take the opportunity to apply. It may turn out that you don't get accepted anyway, then the cosmic powers have spoken. Doesn't mean you aren't meant to attend grad school, it just means a year off is your destiny. I didn't get in the first year despite having what I thought were fairly decent qualifications. I spent the extra time enjoying my family and beefing up the publication and poster/paper presentation section of my cv while working full-time in an unrelated job. My bank account thanks me. Use your honors thesis to do the beefing rather than the RA position. That's what I did. You get first author every time and don't need to do extra work for possibly nothing. You can generally do a local and a national presentation off one thesis. Check on that though because I had different stats to report for each one. Then try to get your thesis in publication. Even if you have only submitted it for review, you can still put it on your cv. Just some thoughts in case you find yourself with an extra year. Hope this helps. If you have further questions, let me know. Good Luck!

 

[fallen625]

I say go ahead and apply now. One of my fellow cohort members was very (35+ weeks maybe?) pregnant during the interview. Having a child myself, the only reservation that I feel you should make is to consider how much you want to be around your child during their first year. Since quite a bit of time is spent studying and reading, you may want to consider factoring in a baby who may not be on your same schedule. On the other hand, babies tend to sleep more in their first year and start toddling around in their 2nd year so you might not want to wait. Also, I had a few gaps in my CV due to children and was never questioned on any of them before, during or after the interview. Your qualifications seem good enough that I would take the opportunity to apply. It may turn out that you don't get accepted anyway, then the cosmic powers have spoken. Doesn't mean you aren't meant to attend grad school, it just means a year off is your destiny. I didn't get in the first year despite having what I thought were fairly decent qualifications. I spent the extra time enjoying my family and beefing up the publication and poster/paper presentation section of my cv while working full-time in an unrelated job. My bank account thanks me. Use your honors thesis to do the beefing rather than the RA position. That's what I did. You get first author every time and don't need to do extra work for possibly nothing. You can generally do a local and a national presentation off one thesis. Check on that though because I had different stats to report for each one. Then try to get your thesis in publication. Even if you have only submitted it for review, you can still put it on your cv. Just some thoughts in case you find yourself with an extra year. Hope this helps. If you have further questions, let me know. Good Luck!

Thank you Butterfly6! This is very helpful. I am just very scared because I am somewhat geographically limited because of my husbands occupation, so I would hate to get rejected because I am pregnant and then not be able to apply the next year.

I would love to have my honors thesis published, but I attempted to publish it once already and I got rejected 🙁 This was after graduation, with my mentor doing all the submission work. I think she is too busy to try again.

Would I be able to submit my thesis to be published and to presentations, even if my mentors are too busy to deal with this? Should I bring it up to them that I am applying to grad school and want to give it another shot and hopefully they will be fine with it if I do all the work? How would I go about doing a national presentation?

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Personally, I think your biggest challenge is not being pregnant at the interview, but having a newborn when you start your program--are you really sure about that??! I'm not sure if you have children already, but a newborn baby is a 24-hour per day job (with very little sleep) for the first 3-6 months. I don't see how you could possibly start a new program with that kind of commitment.

 

[fallen625]

Personally, I think your biggest challenge is not being pregnant at the interview, but having a newborn when you start your program--are you really sure about that??! I'm not sure if you have children already, but a newborn baby is a 24-hour per day job (with very little sleep) for the first 3-6 months. I don't see how you could possibly start a new program with that kind of commitment.

Thank you for pointing this out, but I would have 2-3 months to bond with the baby before I start. I know it will be hard when I start, but it will be worth it to me. I would also have extensive family help and would be able to afford day care when I am in class, and I am okay with getting little sleep and staying up to do work once the kid is asleep.

I am scared that potential POIs will have this same reaction and not offer me admission though.

 

[mewtoo]

Would I be able to submit my thesis to be published and to presentations, even if my mentors are too busy to deal with this? Should I bring it up to them that I am applying to grad school and want to give it another shot and hopefully they will be fine with it if I do all the work? How would I go about doing a national presentation?

You can always email your mentors, explain whats going on (maybe not mention you are pregnant if you think that this fact may change their minds), and then tell them you'll do all the legwork. If they are reasonable people then I don't see why they wouldn't support this when you do most of the work, especially if they are authors! They'll only have to do a little bit of paperwork online, if anything.

You go about submitting to national conferences just like you would a regional. Find a conference you think your research would go well in, look them up online, and complete the process that is listed online. Then its a waiting game. Good luck!

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I would not apply this year. Schools get like 200 applications for 5 slots. Some of those people have no shot, but many have excellent stats. When you are deciding among any qualified applicants any minor thing can knock a person out of the running. Anything that hints that you might be unwilling to spend 60-70 hours per week on what they want you to do is likely to be an issue. If you would like to be reminded that sexism is alive and well, academia is a good place for that. Female faculty are often worse than the male faculty (I think there are lots of interesting psychological and sociological reasons for that, but they are beyond the scope here).

I also think it is very relevant that you are geographically limited. If you were not, it might be reasonable to apply to 10 schools this year and, if not accepted, apply to a new crop of schools next year. Since you are working with a limited number of choices, I would want to wait until I could put my best foot forward.

I also think that another year might radically change your views on your career. (IDK if this is your first child or not, I’ll say this anyway in case it applies to any future readers). I can’t tell you how many friends and clients I have had that have taken maternity leave with every intention of returning and then quitting (or drastically reducing their hours) after they experience having their child. I bring this up because I was actually just having a conversation with a grad school friend last week. This was a different situation, she completed her degree and then had her child. She told me that, in retrospect, she would have never gone to grad school, but picked a more 9-5, less all-encompassing career in order to have more time with and energy for her child. The question isn't whether you can be both a good psychologist and a good mother, it is whether you want to. You may and you may not. Either one is a respectable decision.

Best of luck in whatever you decide and a big congratulations on the pregnancy!

Dr. E

 

[wigflip]

If you would like to be reminded that sexism is alive and well, academia is a good place for that.

Oh. My. God. Yes.

Of possible interest is this related LAT article. The author is short on solutions, so that's annoying. And the focus is more on young women of reproductive age (i.e. no discussion of eldercare, sandwich generation).:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/21/opinion/la-oe-currid-halkett-women-in-academia-20120821

I'm not a mother, but I can speak to the caregiving issue (eldercare). I never would have started my doc program if I'd known my elderly parent was going to get sick during my first year. Both caregiving and grad school are more difficult than I imagined, and a lot of the time I end up feeling like I'm not able to do as well as I'd like in either arena.

One other factor to consider besides first child (in which case I'd say definitely wait--everyone I know with kids says it's worlds harder than you ever imagined) vs. subsequent child, is academic path vs. clinical path. My apologies if you've already noted this above. But if your aim is to become a clinician post-graduation, grad school will still be freakin' hard and time consuming, but you won't have the same concerns about amassing quality publications, presentations, volunteering for committee work, conference travel, other CV-building activities. You'll need to do some of this to be competitive for internship of course, and you may change your mind mid-stream, like many folks here (start grad school intending to become an academic, then decide you'd prefer clinical work, or vice versa).

Finally, despite everything I say above, I hate the "you can't have it all" trope. Nobody tells men this.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

I also think that another year might radically change your views on your career. (IDK if this is your first child or not, I’ll say this anyway in case it applies to any future readers). I can’t tell you how many friends and clients I have had that have taken maternity leave with every intention of returning and then quitting (or drastically reducing their hours) after they experience having their child.

YES. THIS!!

I have had the same experience, many times over. The best of intentions for both motherhood and academia are nothing compared to the reality. If you aren't 1) a mother, or 2) in grad school already, you are at a distinct disadvantage. Establish yourself in something before adding on another HUGE responsibility. Anticipating 3 months of "bonding" time before hitting the books is not very realistic. Seriously, you won't sleep for 3-6 months at a bare minimum--you'll be changing diapers, feeding, and caring for a baby non-stop. You'll be lucky to get a shower in. And that's if you have adequate help and don't end up with some kind of postpartum baby blues or other complication. Sure, it can be an amazing time, but starting both motherhood (if it's your first baby) and a doctoral program at the same time is utter madness!! Take a year and get used to it, first.

 

[wigflip]

And that's if you have adequate help

Okay, I wasn't going to say it, but someone else broke the ice. Every single one of my female friends with kids says the same thing: "My formerly egalitarian husband didn't pull his weight once the baby was born." Don't shoot the messenger, folks. Not casting aspersions on every penis-bearing person on earth, just reportin' what my galpals say.

 

[Pragma]

Finally, despite everything I say above, I hate the "you can't have it all" trope. Nobody tells men this.

I think I agree with you in principle. But come on - if I hadn't gone to graduate school, my wife and I would have had kids before now. It takes two people to parent, and we agreed that I couldn't contribute enough (both in terms of time parenting and financially) for it to be a realistic choice for us. Since we've established that I'll have more caregiving duties based on our incomes, I have felt like "I can't have it all" either.

 

[Pragma]

Okay, I wasn't going to say it, but someone else broke the ice. Every single one of my female friends with kids says the same thing: "My formerly egalitarian husband didn't pull his weight once the baby was born." Don't shoot the messenger, folks. Not casting aspersions on every penis-bearing person on earth, just reportin' what my galpals say.

I'd think adequate help would go beyond your spouse. You'd need babysitters to help take the pressure off too beyond basic childcare services (whether that is family, friends, paid help, etc).

For the record, I know multiple daddies who are the primary caregivers. But I don't doubt that there are deadbeats. Surprisingly, in my clinical work, I came across a few cases where the father got custody of the child (because mom wouldn't pull her weight). I wasn't expecting that.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Okay, I wasn't going to say it, but someone else broke the ice. Every single one of my female friends with kids says the same thing: "My formerly egalitarian husband didn't pull his weight once the baby was born." Don't shoot the messenger, folks. Not casting aspersions on every penis-bearing person on earth, just reportin' what my galpals say.

It's not just about husbands (or baby daddies, partners, etc...let's not be heterosexist here, wigflip 😉), though. Family is an equal opportunity deserter. Who really has family that helps them as much as they think (or they say) they will? And if they do, whose helpful family does so without causing enormous additional stress?!

BTW, if you do have such a family, will you please adopt me? Pretty please?!

 

[wigflip]

It's not just about husbands (or baby daddies, partners, etc...let's not be heterosexist here, wigflip 😉), though.

Oh, I got it. Just none of my queer pals has joined the "gayby boom" yet.

Family is an equal opportunity deserter.

Loved this. My brothers have been invaluable since my parent got sick. If by invaluable you mean too lazy to even bother to send a get well card, much less visit.

 

[wigflip]

I think I agree with you in principle. But come on - if I hadn't gone to graduate school, my wife and I would have had kids before now. It takes two people to parent, and we agreed that I couldn't contribute enough (both in terms of time parenting and financially) for it to be a realistic choice for us. Since we've established that I'll have more caregiving duties based on our incomes, I have felt like "I can't have it all" either.

While I agree, reality imposes limitations on individual men, there isn't a widespread cultural discourse instructing boys and men to be mindful in career planning because of potential conflicts between work and family. There's a tacit assumption that it will work out somehow.

"Son, you'll have to think carefully about your ticking biological clock and how paternity leave will impact your chances for promotion."

"Will becoming a surgeon really allow you to spend enough time with your children, David? Maybe you should aspire to a job with a daddy-track or flextime options?"

 

[Pragma]

While I agree, reality imposes limitations on individual men, there isn't a widespread cultural discourseinstructing boys and men to be mindful in career planning because of potential conflicts between work and family. There's a tacit assumption that it will work out somehow.

"Son, you'll have to think carefully about your ticking biological clock and how paternity leave will impact your chances for promotion."

"Will becoming a surgeon really allow you to spend enough time with your children, David? Maybe you should aspire to a job with a daddy-track or flextime options?"

Good point. Although I have to say, my parents and in-laws have been pestering us to have children since we were in our early 20's. Lots of "there will never be a good time" and "you'll figure out a way to work it out" comments. I suppose in those cases, perhaps it is assumed that the female makes some career sacrifices in some families - although that doesn't fly in our case.

Just curious, any reason why you chose the name David?

 

[cara susanna]

while i agree, reality imposes limitations on individual men, there isn't a widespread cultural discourse instructing boys and men to be mindful in career planning because of potential conflicts between work and family. There's a tacit assumption that it will work out somehow.

"son, you'll have to think carefully about your ticking biological clock and how paternity leave will impact your chances for promotion."

"will becoming a surgeon really allow you to spend enough time with your children, david? Maybe you should aspire to a job with a daddy-track or flextime options?"

This. SO much. Men are not expected to have the primary caretaking role the way that women are. They also aren't expected to cry on their first day back to work after the baby is born or even refuse to leave the baby's side (Last night's episode of How I Met Your Mother, I am looking in your direction.)

 

[psychRA]

While I agree, reality imposes limitations on individual men, there isn't a widespread cultural discourseinstructing boys and men to be mindful in career planning because of potential conflicts between work and family. There's a tacit assumption that it will work out somehow.

Definitely. My grad school cohort (all female) has been thinking/worrying about how to balance career and family since we started the program, and that was before any of us were even close to a place where we were actually planning for children. The guys in our program didn't seem to have the same concerns, at least when we asked them. One grad program isn't exactly a national sample, but now that we're on internship, half of the women in my cohort have set aside their tenure track academic goals in support of their husbands' careers, and plan to cut down to at least part time while the babies are young. I'm not saying that that's wrong, just that it's more culturally expected than it would be for men in most cases.

I also think that, even when women are aiming to stay on the research track within psychology, the expectation is that they will be the ones to make the childcare piece work. I've met a few men who had children before or during grad school, and without exception, their wives were the ones staying home with the kids, or working part time in order to be home with the kids more. I'm not knocking the men in these cases, because they certainly had to work to balance their program needs with the needs of their family, but again, the expectation was that the women in their lives would take on most of that responsibility.

 

[fallen625]

Thank you everyone for your advice. While I understand the concerns for waiting a year for personal reasons, I am 100% sure that I want to proceed with this career, and I want to maximize my chances of getting into the best fit school I can get into. I think it is going to be hard regardless of whether the baby is 3 months or 1 year old when I start, and I don't see not deciding to go to graduate school as a possibility (I have thought about this for well over a year very seriously before becoming pregnant as I am quitting a career path that is way lucrative than academia, and I know I am taking a huge risk)

If the consensus is to agree with Dr. Eliza and wait a year to maximize my chances of getting in, I am more than happy to wait. But I only want to wait if it means I can get into the best grad schools. I am more concerned that a year gap in my CV will hurt more than being pregnant during interviews.

 

[wigflip]

I am more concerned that a year gap in my CV will hurt more than being pregnant during interviews.

My hunch is that the second part is simply not knowable. A large applicant pool + room for subjectivity means that faculty can eliminate a person for any possible reason, and the applicant will never know why. I was warned by multiple faculty members that even though age discrimination is illegal, it's widespread in academic admissions (I'm not talking about mid-late 20s, so don't panic, young'uns).

I think the bump will hurt more than the gap.

 

[Pragma]

Definitely. My grad school cohort (all female) has been thinking/worrying about how to balance career and family since we started the program, and that was before any of us were even close to a place where we were actually planning for children. The guys in our program didn't seem to have the same concerns, at least when we asked them. One grad program isn't exactly a national sample, but now that we're on internship, half of the women in my cohort have set aside their tenure track academic goals in support of their husbands' careers, and plan to cut down to at least part time while the babies are young. I'm not saying that that's wrong, just that it's more culturally expected than it would be for men in most cases.

I also think that, even when women are aiming to stay on the research track within psychology, the expectation is that they will be the ones to make the childcare piece work. I've met a few men who had children before or during grad school, and without exception, their wives were the ones staying home with the kids, or working part time in order to be home with the kids more. I'm not knocking the men in these cases, because they certainly had to work to balance their program needs with the needs of their family, but again, the expectation was that the women in their lives would take on most of that responsibility.

Completely a function of how couples make decisions, IMO. One of my friends from graduate school had a baby and was a stay-at-home dad for a year, putting him behind, while his wife went back to work immediately after maternity leave. It made sense for them and he didn't bat an eye about it. He still provides part time child care and works while they pay for childcare the rest of the time (she still works full time).

I'd argue that the choice of profession lends itself towards taking care of children more than others. It's actually a small part of what led me towards wanting to be a professor. Now I don't know the females in your cohort - but most of the men I've met in training who are married have wives with higher-powered careers than a psychologist. My wife has a more lucrative career than mine - but not as much flexibility.

An aside about tenure-track and having kids - totally depends on what type of setting you go to. I think it would be really hard at an R1, and I know some women have waited until getting tenure in such settings before having children, if at all. But in other places, you might be surprised how common it is, particularly if they aren't planning for you to bring in extramural funding. I've seen several female faculty members have children pre-tenure in an R2 setting. In my current setting, I have a fair amount of choice as to what days/times I teach courses (in fact, I'm sitting at home on my couch right now, prepping a class for another day).

I'm not saying it will be easy - but I am confident that the flexibility of when I work will come in handy as my wife and I figure out how to make it work, and she'll be able to go back to her career as normal. Plus - summers off - come on now, how kid friendly is that?

 

[Pragma]

If the consensus is to agree with Dr. Eliza and wait a year to maximize my chances of getting in, I am more than happy to wait. But I only want to wait if it means I can get into the best grad schools. I am more concerned that a year gap in my CV will hurt more than being pregnant during interviews.

No one here can answer that for you. All I know is that pregnancies are not always well received, and I've seen people go to great lengths to conceal the fact that they are expecting during interview season. One thing to consider - phone interviews.

 

[wigflip]

No one here can answer that for you. All I know is that pregnancies are not always well received, and I've seen people go to great lengths to conceal the fact that they are expecting during interview season. One thing to consider - phone interviews.

binding bellies? trenchcoats??? 😕

P.S. I picked "David" randomly (it was between that and "Bashir"), but if that's your "real" name, it's a nice one.

 

[Pragma]

binding bellies? trenchcoats??? 😕

P.S. I picked "David" randomly (it was between that and "Bashir"), but if that's your "real" name, it's a nice one.

Well it isn't just women that need to worry about it, you know. I knew two guys who completely kept their pregnant wife or daddy status a secret come interview time.

But yes, I am sure that depending on where you are at in your pregnancy, attire could be manipulated to a degree for women. But I don't know anything about that...

 

[wigflip]

Well it isn't just women that need to worry about it, you know. I knew two guys who completely kept their pregnant wife or daddy status a secret come interview time.

Oh. You just meant "lying." Doesn't seem like "great lengths" to me--all academics do that.

 

[Pragma]

Oh. You just meant "lying." Doesn't seem like "great lengths" to me--all academics do that.

Well depending on how well known you and your family are - for some people it meant not telling anyone they knew about the pregnancy, going dark on facebook, etc....all very calculated to ensure the word didn't get out, directly or indirectly, to anyone who might be connected to the process.

 

[fallen625]

binding bellies? trenchcoats??? 😕

P.S. I picked "David" randomly (it was between that and "Bashir"), but if that's your "real" name, it's a nice one.

Assuming I will be interviewing in February I will be 24-28 weeks. This is my first kid, so any advice from people who had kids is welcome, but I am asusming that it will be impossible to hide starting week 24 or so? I also feel like a bit dishonest, but maybe I can get over that.

 

[wigflip]

Completely a function of how couples make decisions, IMO.

You won't be surprised to hear that I disagree. The fact that some men are engaged enough to want to co-parent doesn't obliterate the very real and well-documented structural obstacles that women face in combining waged work with unpaid carework (wage gap, glass ceiling, sandwich generation pressures, second shift, biological clock), not to mention what the literature says about who actually engages in contingency planning (women more than men).

 

[fallen625]

No one here can answer that for you. All I know is that pregnancies are not always well received, and I've seen people go to great lengths to conceal the fact that they are expecting during interview season. One thing to consider - phone interviews.

Again - I haven't thought at length about how I would feel about hiding the whole thing, but if I decided that I wanted to go that way - would grad schools even be okay with phone interviews? I could frame it as not being able to take time of from my job and suggest a phone interview, but I wonder if this would hurt my application just as much as a bump.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

No one here can answer that for you. All I know is that pregnancies are not always well received, and I've seen people go to great lengths to conceal the fact that they are expecting during interview season. One thing to consider - phone interviews.

I wouldn't do a phone interview. It is an easy way to fade into the background and prevents you from assessing whether you really want to attend the school. And if you already live in the area, they will be sure to know something is off! This is not to mention what it will do to your relationship with your POI when they find out that you intentionally hid this from them.

Dr. E

 

[Pragma]

Again - I haven't thought at length about how I would feel about hiding the whole thing, but if I decided that I wanted to go that way - would grad schools even be okay with phone interviews? I could frame it as not being able to take time of from my job and suggest a phone interview, but I wonder if this would hurt my application just as much as a bump.

I'd have the same hesistancy about a phone interview - but I know someone who got in on a phone interview. It happens.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

You won't be surprised to hear that I disagree. The fact that some men are engaged enough to want to co-parent doesn't obliterate the very real and well-documented structural obstacles that women face in combining waged work with unpaid carework (wage gap, glass ceiling, sandwich generation pressures, second shift, biological clock), not to mention what the literature says about who actually engages in contingency planning (women more than men).

Add to that the very real toll that a pregnancy takes on a woman's body. It is hard to know if your pregnancy will turn into a situation where you are unable to work for a month or two leading up to the birth. Or after the birth if you will experience baby blues, postpartum depression, or (in extreme cases) psychosis. Or having to figure out how to pump during the workday.

Dr. E

 

[Pragma]

You won't be surprised to hear that I disagree. The fact that some men are engaged enough to want to co-parent doesn't obliterate the very real and well-documented structural obstacles that women face in combining waged work with unpaid carework (wage gap, glass ceiling, sandwich generation pressures, second shift, biological clock), not to mention what the literature says about who actually engages in contingency planning (women more than men).

Not saying there aren't structural problems - I could have worded that better. But I think couples can and do plan accordingly in many cases (such as my own case and in the case of some male peers). But obviously what I have seen doesn't necessarily generalize to all couples.

 

[Pragma]

Add to that the very real toll that a pregnancy takes on a woman's body. It is hard to know if your pregnancy will turn into a situation where you are unable to work for a month or two leading up to the birth. Or after the birth if you will experience baby blues, postpartum depression, or (in extreme cases) psychosis. Or having to figure out how to pump during the workday.

Dr. E

Oh totally. but also consider that most workplaces aren't exactly friendly towards men taking time off when their partner has had a child. best case scenario I have heard is two weeks. You could consider that a structural barrier towards men helping more immediately after the baby is born.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

This is not to mention what it will do to your relationship with your POI when they find out that you intentionally hid this from them.

Overall, the OP seems to be naive and/or in denial about a lot of things. Why ask for advice when you're not going to take what is given? You sound like you just want to hear that everything is going to be ok--no one can tell you that. You're intentionally going into two major life changes with little knowledge of what they entail together, but you're unwilling to heed the knowledge of others with experience. And why are you so willing to deceive the process?

Thinking about grad school for a year is hardly anything compared to many people--most people I know spend years planning and preparing to apply. Postponing for one year isn't going to make a difference, unless it helps. But go ahead, tell me why you're right and I'm wrong...yet again.

 

[wigflip]

Add to that the very real toll that a pregnancy takes on a woman's body. It is hard to know if your pregnancy will turn into a situation where you are unable to work for a month or two leading up to the birth. Or after the birth if you will experience baby blues, postpartum depression, or (in extreme cases) psychosis. Or having to figure out how to pump during the workday.

Dr. E

+1
I think it's really easy to forget the human body in these sorts of calculations. I don't want today to be the day I made a pregnant woman cry (or throw up), but most of my friends have developed lingering body/health issues (like varying degrees of urinary incontinence, sometimes years after giving birth; or "wigflip, my vagina is torn up!"). One of my friends had a horrible time breastfeeding--pretty much every bad thing you can dream up associated with that scenario. I say this as someone who has had to take time off from grad school for health issues. I can't imagine negotiating some of those things while caregiving and taking first year classes. It would be overwhelming.

 

[fallen625]

Overall, the OP seems to be naive and/or in denial about a lot of things. Why ask for advice when you're not going to take what is given? You sound like you just want to hear that everything is going to be ok--no one can tell you that. You're intentionally going into two major life changes with little knowledge of what they entail together, but you're unwilling to heed the knowledge of others with experience. And why are you so willing to deceive the process?

Thinking about grad school for a year is hardly anything compared to many people--most people I know spend years planning and preparing to apply. Postponing for one year isn't going to make a difference, unless it helps. But go ahead, tell me why you're right and I'm wrong...yet again.

I am sorry that you felt like I was naive, but I have gotten viewpoints from both sides here as well as some other resources I have used to make my decision (some people said apply, others said not to apply) so I am really having a hard time making a decision, which is why I keep asking questions. This is not because I am not taking any advice - just considering all the advice I get. Regarding your own advice, all I said was that I don't want advice on what I want to do personally (I have already made my decision about that) but more from an admissions point of view. I haven't made a decision either way and I am weighting my options, which is why I keep asking questions. This is why I have asked questions about potentially hiding it / the interviews - just considering my options. I have explicitly said that I am not sure how I feel about deceiving, just really weighting all my options.

And finally, I have spent a year thinking of leaving my career - I have thought about graduate school since the very beginning of my undergratuate years. The only reason I felt the need to mention this was because some people were wondering if I would even want to go to grad school after having a child.

ETA: I wasn't sure if I wanted to mention this, but your post feels a bit like a personal attack and I really don't want to go there. If you are so against me going to grad school because you think it is not a good decision personally, I respect this, but this is not what I asked and I would really rather not be called naive and unwilling to listen to advice for not agreeing with this. .

 

[AcronymAllergy]

This is just my own opinion, and has pretty much zero objective support behind it--from a purely admissions-based point of view, I'd imagine that waiting a year and applying in 2013 (regardless of what you do between then and now) would potentially hurt you less than showing up to interviews while pregnant. HOWEVER, much of this will vary based on the culture of each individual program.

Based on your WAMC post, it looks like you're thinking about some very competitive schools. I would imagine that such programs would be more rather than less likely to look negatively upon pregnancy and its effects on your potential for completing the program, but I neither attended nor interviewed at any of those sites, so I can't say that with any semblance of certainty.

 

[wigflip]

Based on your WAMC post

I just read that. Sounds like the Rutgers PhD program ED faculty isn't taking anyone this year? Could be another good reason to wait, see if her/his lab opens up a spot for the following year. Not that Rutgers PsyD program is anything to be ashamed of, but if you have research aspirations, the PhD will likely serve you better on the job market after graduation.

 

[fallen625]

I just read that. Sounds like the Rutgers PhD program ED faculty isn't taking anyone this year? Could be another good reason to wait, see if her/his lab opens up a spot for the following year. Not that Rutgers PsyD program is anything to be ashamed of, but if you have research aspirations, the PhD will likely serve you better on the job market after graduation.

Thanks. This is a good point. A Rutgers PhD would be ideal in many ways for me (though I imagine the chances of getting admitted are pretty low!)

Is it typical for professors who are not taking grad students say this year, would probably take them the following year. Would the same be true in reverse (ei - if a professor is taking grad school students this year, he / she would proably not take them the following year)? Because if that is the case, it might be worth applying now and next year if necessary. But if it isn't, it seems that given how I am limited in what schools I can apply to, it might be better to wait.

 

[wigflip]

Thanks. This is a good point. A Rutgers PhD would be ideal in many ways for me (though I imagine the chances of getting admitted are pretty low!)

Is it typical for professors who are not taking grad students say this year, would probably take them the following year. Would the same be true in reverse (ei - if a professor is taking grad school students this year, he / she would proably not take them the following year)? Because if that is the case, it might be worth applying now and next year if necessary. But if it isn't, it seems that given how I am limited in what schools I can apply to, it might be better to wait.

I think this one. Based on the rest of your posts (time since graduation, years on current job) it sounds like you are in your mid-twenties. There are people here who got into clinical doctorates in the mid-late 30s. You have time.

 

[psychRA]

Is it typical for professors who are not taking grad students say this year, would probably take them the following year. Would the same be true in reverse (ei - if a professor is taking grad school students this year, he / she would proably not take them the following year)? .

In my experience, that can vary pretty widely, and depends largely on the faculty-specific factors. For example, a professor who doesn't have the funding to take on a student this year may (or may not) having funding to take someone on next year. A faculty member with plenty of grant money may take a student every year. If someone is reaching the end of their career, they may take students less frequently, or stop taking students entirely. And (in my opinion) a faculty member who is reasonably certain that they're leaving for another institution shouldn't take new students at all, but that sometimes happens anyway. Other departmental factors may be at work as well - for example, we had one faculty member who didn't take a student one year because she wasn't impressed with the applicant pool, even after interviews. The next year, one of her current students left. At that point, her lab was dangerously small, so another faculty member agreed to forgo taking a student that year so that this professor could take on two students.

 

[fallen625]

I think this one. Based on the rest of your posts (time since graduation, years on current job) it sounds like you are in your mid-twenties. There are people here who got into clinical doctorates in the mid-late 30s. You have time.

You guessed correctly, I am 23 🙂. I am not concerned at all about my age (esp given how I am pregnant now) and frankly I don't mind waiting a an extra year, just worried about having that one-year gap for applications. But it seems that the consensus is that this will hurt less than being pregnant, and who knows, maybe I will find a way to productively fill my time while I wait to apply.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

My experience on the application circuit (mind you, this was years ago) is that compared with more traditional HR folks/job interviews, academia cares much less about possible gaps in your CV. Any number of things could've happened during that year, such as you working in a non-research position (and thus leaving it off your CV), having a child, needing time to care for a sick family member, etc. It's been mentioned on these forums multiple times in the past that people were either never asked about any gaps, or it was only brought up in passing and not mentioned again.

Mind you, I'm not saying that absolutely no one will care, but it doesn't seem to be as strong a theme or concern as it is in the "traditional" working world.

Edit: As for your question about advisors alternating between taking and not taking students, as psychRA mentioned, it can vary widely from one lab to another. Your best bet, as you've already alluded to in a prior post, is to email the POI and ask.

 

[fallen625]

My experience on the application circuit (mind you, this was years ago) is that compared with more traditional HR folks/job interviews, academia cares much less about possible gaps in your CV. Any number of things could've happened during that year, such as you working in a non-research position (and thus leaving it off your CV), having a child, needing time to care for a sick family member, etc. It's been mentioned on these forums multiple times in the past that people were either never asked about any gaps, or it was only brought up in passing and not mentioned again.

Mind you, I'm not saying that absolutely no one will care, but it doesn't seem to be as strong a theme or concern as it is in the "traditional" working world.

Edit: As for your question about advisors alternating between taking and not taking students, as psychRA mentioned, it can vary widely from one lab to another. Your best bet, as you've already alluded to in a prior post, is to email the POI and ask.

Thanks for pointing this out! I had no idea that career gaps weren't as big of an issue in academia (in the field I am in now it is almost impossible to get a job with any sort of career gap). This is really helpful.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Thanks for pointing this out! I had no idea that career gaps weren't as big of an issue in academia (in the field I am in now it is almost impossible to get a job with any sort of career gap). This is really helpful.

Again, others can correct me if I'm by and large wrong; that was just my personal experience, as best I can remember. Also note that this applies only to grad school applications (remember, POIs are generally used to dealing primarily with applications from undergrads, where I'd imagine gaps are probably the rule rather than the exception). The academic job market is another matter entirely.

 

[Butterfly6]

Again, I didn't have any questions on gaps in my cv either. I do have a child and family. Maybe I'm still in the "honeymoon" phase of my first year, but it hasn't been nearly as difficult to balance family and school as everyone says. In fact, I felt more pressed balancing family when working a 40 hour/week job. It's all going to depend on how good you are about setting boundaries both for school and family. I still recommend that you (Fallen265) go ahead and try applying this year. If faculty are that closeminded about pregnant women, then do you really want to spent 4+ years with them? It's no different than the world outside academia. I actually worked at a place where the women were so much more critical of other women taking time off or calling in sick because of a child. The guys were actually very understanding. So don't be too quick to judge anyone! Focus on what you know about yourself, your abilities, and what you desire. We can never know for sure what may or may not happen or how people may or may not act. We can only guess about others, but we CAN be sure of our own actions. So Fallen265 you have received some good advice, but there is also some that I question whether the person writing the post has had the experience of children and being in grad school. Everyone is different. Just because some of you didn't get support from a spouse, boss, faculty, or collegue, does not mean that there aren't may more out there that are fully supportive. As psychologists and future psychologists we should know and understand how vastly different everyone's experiences can be. So again, since you can't control others, my recommendation to Fallen265 is go ahead and apply this year as long as things feel good for you.

 

[Butterfly6]

Thank you Butterfly6! This is very helpful. I am just very scared because I am somewhat geographically limited because of my husbands occupation, so I would hate to get rejected because I am pregnant and then not be able to apply the next year.

I would love to have my honors thesis published, but I attempted to publish it once already and I got rejected 🙁 This was after graduation, with my mentor doing all the submission work. I think she is too busy to try again.

Would I be able to submit my thesis to be published and to presentations, even if my mentors are too busy to deal with this? Should I bring it up to them that I am applying to grad school and want to give it another shot and hopefully they will be fine with it if I do all the work? How would I go about doing a national presentation?

I got rejected the first time too but am currently in the revise/resubmit phase for another journal. Neither of my mentors did the actual submission work. While they reviewed my thesis and gave recommendations for change based on reviewers' comments, the process was all mine. I would just email your mentor saying that you want to resubmit somewhere and that you will handle it. See what they say. My guess is they won't mind as long as you are willing to do some or all of the leg work. It's really not hard to submit at all. The work comes when they want you to revise.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

If faculty are that closeminded about pregnant women, then do you really want to spent 4+ years with them?

I think this is a relevant question. Which is of greater concern: not having the chance to go to grad school because your only option is with close-minded profs or going to grad school with close-minded profs? Since you are geographically limited, this question takes on particular significance. There may or may not be the option of attending a school with open-minded faculty. Would it be okay for you personally to settle for close-minded faculty?

Dr. E

 

[fallen625]

Again, I didn't have any questions on gaps in my cv either. I do have a child and family. Maybe I'm still in the "honeymoon" phase of my first year, but it hasn't been nearly as difficult to balance family and school as everyone says. In fact, I felt more pressed balancing family when working a 40 hour/week job. It's all going to depend on how good you are about setting boundaries both for school and family. I still recommend that you (Fallen265) go ahead and try applying this year. If faculty are that closeminded about pregnant women, then do you really want to spent 4+ years with them? It's no different than the world outside academia. I actually worked at a place where the women were so much more critical of other women taking time off or calling in sick because of a child. The guys were actually very understanding. So don't be too quick to judge anyone! Focus on what you know about yourself, your abilities, and what you desire. We can never know for sure what may or may not happen or how people may or may not act. We can only guess about others, but we CAN be sure of our own actions. So Fallen265 you have received some good advice, but there is also some that I question whether the person writing the post has had the experience of children and being in grad school. Everyone is different. Just because some of you didn't get support from a spouse, boss, faculty, or collegue, does not mean that there aren't may more out there that are fully supportive. As psychologists and future psychologists we should know and understand how vastly different everyone's experiences can be. So again, since you can't control others, my recommendation to Fallen265 is go ahead and apply this year as long as things feel good for you.

Thank you so much for the encouragement! I really do hope there are programs out there that would be open-minded to the idea, and it is very nice to know about that it is OK to have gaps in the resume. I just want to do the best I can to ensure I can get into the best program I can get into within my geographical limitations.

I think this is a relevant question. Which is of greater concern: not having the chance to go to grad school because your only option is with close-minded profs or going to grad school with close-minded profs? Since you are geographically limited, this question takes on particular significance. There may or may not be the option of attending a school with open-minded faculty. Would it be okay for you personally to settle for close-minded faculty?

Dr. E

This is a good point as well. I definetly would prefer to go to grad-school and work with close-minded profs than not to go to grad schoola to all.



Still torn to be honest.. one minute I am thinking I should not apply at all and just wait, the other one I think it makes more sense to apply. Maybe I should just apply to half of the programs I select and if it doesn't work out this year apply to the other half next year? Though this seems a rather painful way to do it, and I dont want to bother my sources of recommendation twice with the entire process unless it is absolutely necessary.