Prehealth committee rating 7/10... will this destroy my app?

[Me321]

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So I am a non-trad 3 years out of college at this point. I have done a post-bac, worked in a research laboratory, and have a few hundred hours of clinical and non-clinical volunteering with shadowing. My MCAT is 36 and my post-bac MCAT will likely be close to 4.0. I consider my application fairly strong. The only hole in my app is that my undergrad experiences/EC's are not that strong and my undergrad GPA was a 3.6... I decided on premed after I graduated and have busted my tail to get a strong application together since then.

I went through my college's prehealth committee a few months ago. My college is a relatively small and unheralded state school that only has about 1 student matriculate to med school each year, pretty much always our state med school. I have no relationship with the premed advisor at my college but I went to him for the prehealth packet since I thought it would raise eyebrows if I skipped it. I submitted the prehealth composite LOR months ago and haven't thought of it since.

Long story short, I was emailed a copy of the letter last night by the premed advisor and found that that he gave me a 7/10 for my rating at the end of his letter. My individual letters are included, all very strong AFAIK. When I emailed him back to ask him why he gave me that rating, he said it was based on my undergraduate GPA and my lack of on-campus involvement while in college... essentially he was rating me on a traditional student's criteria although I am 25 years old. He does not indicate his reason for a 7/10 anywhere in the letter, it's just basically a fairly positive letter talking about my activities with a 7/10 rating in the last paragraph without explanation.

I am absolutely devastated right now. I applied to about 30 schools (including about 12 of the top 20's - I have excellent research) and was complete everywhere by late July, but only have one interview invite right now to Drexel... I have been wondering why my cycle was going so slowly, and I can't help being anxious if this is the reason why. It is so unbelievably frustrating that I spent years putting together a good app, spent many sleepless nights studying to get a good MCAT score, spent hundreds of hours slaving over the primary and secondaries... all to be undermined by some guy who I have literally met in person for 2 hours tops.

My question to anyone actually involved in admissions, will a 7/10 prehealth rating sink an application if the rest of the application is strong outside of the rating?

 

[kyamh]

I am not an admissions person but here are a few points to consider:

Many people getting interviews now have better stats than you do, a 36 MCAT is amazing, but many early interviews go to people who are higher - especially given your undergrad GPA. You are a very strong applicant, have patience. Also, many of the top schools you applied to are just now starting to send out interviews, again, don't panic yet. What I have seen, however, is many people getting rejections - and you don't have those yet either right?

As far as a 7/10 - I don't know. What I do know, however, is that most pre-meds don't see their score (I didn't even know that my committee letter likely comes with a score) so they just don't worry about it.

Clearly, you are a strong candidate, you said yourself that the letters you saw were strong. It's only the first week of September.

 

[Me321]

What I have seen, however, is many people getting rejections - and you don't have those yet either right?

Rejected from UChicago and UPitt. I thought my background was a really good fit with Pitt :-/

 

[SunsFun]

What's your cumulative GPA after postbac? Is it still around 3.6?

 

[Redpancreas]

Title is over dramatic and seems to give off the vibe that you're fishing for + advice. Regardless, I am sorry this happened to you and agree that it's terrible that this guy did this to you. Then again though, there's nothing to do about it. Maybe, at the end of your interviews (you've got Drexel, that's a start! think +) be like.. if I may I'd like to say something brief (and have a semi-planned statement ready) that lasts only like 20-30 seconds and gets right to the point. Interviewers might have other people they're waiting on and have short attention spans. With this statement, try to not sound apologetic at all. Just be like, I feel like there was a technicality that led to a lesser score in my committee letter, and this is why. (skip this if you've already mentioned it elsewhere though). That's all you can do now right. Don't worry. I know a lot of 36+ mcatters who are also interviewless right now.

 

[gettheleadout]

Further demonstration that premed committees are a farce. My sympathies, OP.

 

[cookiemonsters]

OP I was also non-trad when I applied (same age) and I went through basically the exact same thing with my school's premed advisor. He rated me an 8/10 but my grad GPA and MCAT was a little less than yours. It didn't seem to hurt my cycle that much, although there's always 'what if's in the back of my mind.

Maybe the fact that you go to a relatively unheralded school (assumingly with an unknown premed advisor) means that medical schools will not really care about the advisor's rating, especially if you have good LOR's from more recent activities.

Still, my condolences. Premed committees are an absolute sham, especially for non-trads. Really wish I skipped mine with hindsight.

 

[Microglia]

That advisor is a jerk. It shouldn't torch your application, which seems good. You've done everything you can and now just sit back and wait; knowing how schools feel about it won't do you any good. My suggestion is go grab a beer and try not to check the inbox more than once a day haha.

 

[487806]

Further demonstration that premed committees are a farce. My sympathies, OP.

I despise anything that has the name premed (i.e. Premed advisera, premed committees, premed clubs). Having premed as part of the title is a horrifying combination of ignorance, arrogance, greed, dishonesty etc. But one thing that frustrates me more are those med schools that require a "sophisticated, professional" analysis of the applicant by a third-party (i.e. A committee). Such a committee has zero incentive to help the applicants get into med school, except perhaps their own (Saying that it's the committee's job to help the applicants is inane. Committees will most definitely skim through the application and assign some arbitrary score which they feel is best).

The point of my anti-premed rant is that the premed committee has minimal bearing on your overall application. Schools that reject you on the basis of this are those that shoyld lose their LCME accreditation.

 

[Cambover]

I went to a school without a premed committee and don't know what how that process works. I am very perturbed that they would have the audacity to rate people. How is that their prerogative? Shouldn't that be left to the adcoms who actually know what they are looking for in applicants?

 

[Arkangeloid]

Wtf is this "rating" thing?

I thought the purpose of a premed committee was to advocate for people?

 

[peltier]

Wtf is this "rating" thing?

I thought the purpose of a premed committee was to advocate for people?

Premedical committees are WORTHLESS in determining your future as a physician. Committees don't know you personally. A 7/10 will sink you in some places but not all of them. It depends on whether or not the schools recognize the real value of that rating. If all students from your school average 7-8, you are fine. If not, then there is no way for them to make heads or tails out of a random number.

 

[Burla]

Wtf is this "rating" thing?

I thought the purpose of a premed committee was to advocate for people?

I finally just had my committee interview the other day (yea they start when school begins in the fall 👎). They asked me what I thought the committee interview was for and I said it was to get to know us so you can advocate for our applications. She laughed at me and shook her head. "No its to evaluate you against everyone else here at ____ so medical schools can compare our students." Me: 😕 . Great... advisers who act like they know about the medical school process get to ruin the good LORs I worked hard to get.


Anyways...hopefully these medical schools realize that some committees are just awful. I just don't understand why they require it. After I'm done with the application process I'm going back to the people who run our program and raise hell. (I already did a little bit of that because I argued about how late our committee meets so I'm sure that helped 🙂)

End Rant.

 

[487806]

Wtf is this "rating" thing?

I thought the purpose of a premed committee was to advocate for people?

No. the purpose of the premed committee is to stroke the fragile egos of incompetent advisers by comparing applicants among one another.

Does anyone know which schools actually DEMAND a committee letter and will reject applicants who fail to comply?

 

[Burla]

No. the purpose of the premed committee is to stroke the fragile egos of incompetent advisers by comparing applicants among one another.

Does anyone know which schools actually DEMAND a committee letter and will reject applicants who fail to comply?

You're anger at premed committee's is turning me on.

I e-mailed quite a few places and the ones that said they require a letter if your undergrad has a committee are SLU, VCU, Vermont. (Einstein said that its required but they do give you the option of not using it but you have to explain). Most others say either/or but most prefer the letter

 

[487806]

I finally just had my committee interview the other day (yea they start when school begins in the fall 👎). They asked me what I thought the committee interview was for and I said it was to get to know us so you can advocate for our applications. She laughed at me and shook her head. "No its to evaluate you against everyone else here at ____ so medical schools can compare our students." Me: 😕 . Great... advisers who act like they know about the medical school process get to ruin the good LORs I worked hard to get.


Anyways...hopefully these medical schools realize that some committees are just awful. I just don't understand why they require it. After I'm done with the application process I'm going back to the people who run our program and raise hell. (I already did a little bit of that because I argued about how late our committee meets so I'm sure that helped 🙂)

End Rant.

The ranking system is useless at college and med school level. As long as you have good stats and productive ECs (and good PS/LORs etc), you'll get accepted. A similar system applies for residencies.

 

[487806]

You're anger at premed committee's is turning me on.

I e-mailed quite a few places and the ones that said they require a letter if your undergrad has a committee are SLU, VCU, Vermont. (Einstein said that its required but they do give you the option of not using it but you have to explain). Most others say either/or but most prefer the letter

Well that's frustrating. I guess the optimal approach is to give in and hope for the best. But if the premed committee is tardy or inconsiderate, then it's completely reasonable to pound them into submission.

My anger is exaggerated. Most committees are idiotic and redundant, but they'd provide a neutral/great feedback if all is good IN COLLEGE. Now, if you screwed up in college, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU DID TO IMPROVE POST-UG, your committee letter will reflect your COLLEGE performance.

The committee letter is great for strong UG applicants who are applying in junior/senior year, but it's an idiotic nuisance for those with strong upward trends (but average GPA), weak applicants (completely valid) and nontrads.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

premed committees are a scam now. If you go to a school that charges you money for the committee letter, you have a great reason to explain to med schools why you shouldn't go through committee. Anybody who goes to a school that charges you for committee I strongly encourage you to report the practice to med schools so they know which schools do this.

 

[gettheleadout]

Well that's frustrating. I guess the optimal approach is to give in and hope for the best. But if the premed committee is tardy or inconsiderate, then it's completely reasonable to pound them into submission.

How's a committee's "early" application timeline providing you a letter that gets to schools in August for "tardy?"

Yeah, it's a joke.

 

[Donald Juan]

Well, this quickly devolved into why committee's are crap, but I'll try to stay on topic.

OP, I really doubt that a 7/10 will kill your application, or hurt it at all. I think most schools know that committee letters are generic and solely based on the factors that you mentioned, and it's not like the school gave you a bad score, its more like not a good score. Now, I know some people here will say that is the same as "bad" for a LOR, but I would disagree in this case since it is not a personal LOR and it is only one component of your application.

Top 20 schools (and really any school) are gonna reject people for God-knows-why. It's not even a matter of being perfect...then you'll get rejected for being a box checker. If you want to tell yourself the reason UofChicago rejected you was because you got a 7/10, go ahead. If you had gotten a 10/10 they probably still would have rejected you and you would be blaming the fact that you went to a no name state school, or that you didn't have enough X or didn't do enough Y.

 

[487806]

How's a committee's "early" application timeline providing you a letter that gets to schools in August for "tardy?"

Yeah, it's a joke.

So much for being optimistic... 🙁

 

[supermintyfresh]

So I am a non-trad 3 years out of college at this point. I have done a post-bac, worked in a research laboratory, and have a few hundred hours of clinical and non-clinical volunteering with shadowing. My MCAT is 36 and my post-bac MCAT will likely be close to 4.0. I consider my application fairly strong. The only hole in my app is that my undergrad experiences/EC's are not that strong and my undergrad GPA was a 3.6... I decided on premed after I graduated and have busted my tail to get a strong application together since then.

I went through my college's prehealth committee a few months ago. My college is a relatively small and unheralded state school that only has about 1 student matriculate to med school each year, pretty much always our state med school. I have no relationship with the premed advisor at my college but I went to him for the prehealth packet since I thought it would raise eyebrows if I skipped it. I submitted the prehealth composite LOR months ago and haven't thought of it since.

Long story short, I was emailed a copy of the letter last night by the premed advisor and found that that he gave me a 7/10 for my rating at the end of his letter. My individual letters are included, all very strong AFAIK. When I emailed him back to ask him why he gave me that rating, he said it was based on my undergraduate GPA and my lack of on-campus involvement while in college... essentially he was rating me on a traditional student's criteria although I am 25 years old. He does not indicate his reason for a 7/10 anywhere in the letter, it's just basically a fairly positive letter talking about my activities with a 7/10 rating in the last paragraph without explanation.

I am absolutely devastated right now. I applied to about 30 schools (including about 12 of the top 20's - I have excellent research) and was complete everywhere by late July, but only have one interview invite right now to Drexel... I have been wondering why my cycle was going so slowly, and I can't help being anxious if this is the reason why. It is so unbelievably frustrating that I spent years putting together a good app, spent many sleepless nights studying to get a good MCAT score, spent hundreds of hours slaving over the primary and secondaries... all to be undermined by some guy who I have literally met in person for 2 hours tops.

My question to anyone actually involved in admissions, will a 7/10 prehealth rating sink an application if the rest of the application is strong outside of the rating?

OP, just wondering how you were able to obtain a copy of the letter? I thought many schools require you to waive your access to any letters of recommendations? 😕

Thanks

 

[BlackBox]

OP, just wondering how you were able to obtain a copy of the letter? I thought many schools require you to waive your access to any letters of recommendations? 😕

Thanks

Now everyone wants to get theirs! 😉

I'm a non-trad (32 yo). Whenever a ii asked the 'why aren't you submitting a letter' question, I succinctly explained that I was so far removed from my undergraduate course work and professors that it would not accurately reflect my current strengths and weaknesses.

I would focus on the positive aspects of your applications (you have many). Why start an interview trying to explain an issue most people are never even aware of?

Be positive!! Good luck!!

 

[Mr Avante]

Further demonstration that premed committees are a farce. My sympathies, OP.

I despise anything that has the name premed (i.e. Premed advisera, premed committees, premed clubs). Having premed as part of the title is a horrifying combination of ignorance, arrogance, greed, dishonesty etc. But one thing that frustrates me more are those med schools that require a "sophisticated, professional" analysis of the applicant by a third-party (i.e. A committee). Such a committee has zero incentive to help the applicants get into med school, except perhaps their own (Saying that it's the committee's job to help the applicants is inane. Committees will most definitely skim through the application and assign some arbitrary score which they feel is best).

Wtf is this "rating" thing?

I thought the purpose of a premed committee was to advocate for people?

+1
You cannot be more correct on this one.

Sorry, OP

 

[darknight]

Further demonstration that premed committees are a farce. My sympathies, OP.

👍

Every pre-med xxxxxxx(stuff) in my college is a farce.

 

[SOMBound13]

I had no idea that Committees put a score on their letters. Do they all do this? I never say mine.

I thought the purpose was to advocate for the student, but after reading the above, I can kind of see how they might "compare their own students," but that seems counter-productive. I would think ANY university would want all of their QUALIFIED premeds to get accepted somewhere...wouldn't they?

I can understand a Committee giving a lowish score....if a Committee was faced with some low GPA, low MCAT student who likely couldn't make it thru med school. I can understand a Committee not wanting their school's name associated with a student who would likely badly struggle thru med school. But, to hinder a student like the OP, seems counter-productive. JMHO

 

[cookiemonsters]

Can an adcom comment on the validity of premed committee ratings? Really curious if they make an impact, especially for 'unknown' colleges.

 

[phunky]

What the **** is a prehealth committee ranking?

 

[osprey099]

For undergrads, pre-med committees are actually very beneficial is you play the system right.

But I feel bad for the OP since the pre-med committees are kind of a waste of time for non-trads.

 

[gettheleadout]

For undergrads, pre-med committees are actually very beneficial is you play the system right.

You can say this coming from a school known for its rigor. In general, they are not useful and provide no useful information to admissions committees.

 

[osprey099]

You can say this coming from a school known for its rigor. In general, they are not useful and provide no useful information to admissions committees.

All schools with committees works the same way. If the committee is gonna write for you, they really want you to get into a school because that makes their reputation/numbers look better. If they don't like your application, they won't agree to write for you in the first place.

 

[aesculapian]

I despise anything that has the name premed (i.e. Premed advisera, premed committees, premed clubs). Having premed as part of the title is a horrifying combination of ignorance, arrogance, greed, dishonesty etc.

Every pre-med xxxxxxx(stuff) in my college is a farce.

All of this seems really extreme.. How does a pre-med club signify ignorance, arrogance, and dishonesty? I get the backlash over pre-health committees and their letters/rankings, and I have a lot of sympathy for OP's situation, but I'm just trying to understand. Why the condemnation of everything "pre-med"? I just don't get it 😕

 

[darknight]

All schools with committees works the same way. If the committee is gonna write for you, they really want you to get into a school because that makes their reputation/numbers look better. If they don't like your application, they won't agree to write for you in the first place.

Not all committees work the same way.

 

[osprey099]

Not all committees work the same way.

Why would a committee agree to write for you just so it can write a poor letter? Seems like a waste of both their time and your time

 

[gettheleadout]

All schools with committees works the same way. If the committee is gonna write for you, they really want you to get into a school because that makes their reputation/numbers look better. If they don't like your application, they won't agree to write for you in the first place.

Assuming this to be true doesn't make committee letters useful.

 

[osprey099]

Assuming this to be true doesn't make committee letters useful.

I can see why you say it's not useful for adcoms but I'm trying to say its useful for applicants. You get an "official" letter stating that you are qualified for medical schools; that can never hurt. Also, if the school uses a scoring system, they will state the percentage of applicants from their school that have gotten into med school with your score in the past. This is why I think OP's 7/10 may not be that bad. If your committee didn't think you'd get into med school, they wouldn't agree to write for you in the first place. Idk which school OP goes to but a 7/10 must be on the "qualifies for our committee letter of support" side of things since his committee has agreed to write for him. SDN makes it sound like you always need at least a 9/10 to get into med school; for my school and a couple of my friends' schools, a 7/10 is a solid score and certainly won't hurt you at most med schools (although it may hinder your chances at top 20).

 

[Burla]

Why would a committee agree to write for you just so it can write a poor letter? Seems like a waste of both their time and your time

Everyone at my school who signs up for the committee interview receives a letter.

Here is why I don't understand Committee's:
1. They write everyone from their school a good letter to advocate for their candidacy. Then their letter is essentially meaningless. A 41/3.9 isn't the same as a 24/2.5

2. They rate their candidates. Then this is unfair because the committee can't possibly accurately evaluate everyone (at least at my understaffed school). I had to point out my ECs, classes etc during my interview even though she had everything right in front of her. People like my gunner friend will probably get better evals too. He kisses a** and our adviser loves him. I stand up for everyone bc of my school's late process and let's just say my no one appreciated that

 

[LMBLBM]

It will not only destroy your application but it will also destroy your soul and you shall burn for eternity.
YOU ARE FINE

 

[darknight]

People like my gunner friend will probably get better evals too. He kisses a** and our adviser loves him.

Almost every pre-med club in my college is like this. They just serve to show off, boost your ego and pay a really stupid amount of money for knowledge you can find on SDN for free.

Maybe I'm sick of gunners and just prefer to hangout with non-premeds or chilled pre-meds.

 

[MrWonderful]

I understand a lot of the points here but I will say that a pre health committee is essentially just a microcosm of the impending journey to doctorhood. Attendings and residents wont be able to know you super personally so they may very well form an opinion of you, say as an intern, based on your ability to make the most if limited interaction in the workplace.

My school is a tiny liberal arts school so you'd expect there to be a lot of interaction between the PHC and all the pre meds. However, the head of the committee retired leaving us with leas than a year to get to know the new director.

Conclusion: its up to us as students to be proactive and make people like us with very limited time

 

[ChiapetBrownie]

My college never had a committee write letters until this year. There used to be one advisor who wrote all of the letters, and she's actually really nice and down to earth. Some students complained about her, don't know why, and now they implemented a committee. No idea if they do rankings, but they seem ineffective seeing as they often delay students' applications by making them wait forever to interview, in addition to taking forever to write the letters. There are more complaints now than there were before. And one of my main observations with the staff on the committee is that they don't want to be bothered. It's the last bit that makes a low ranking, if rankings are in fact given, more of a possibility for an otherwise qualified student.

At our institution committees don't meet with non-trads, the primary pre-health advisor (who sends out professor recommendations, counsels students, etc.) does. That would make so much more sense.

Didn't mean to ramble....

 

[Pose]

I didn't read most of this thread, but holy ****, I'd be throwing a hissy fit. I would raise hell at that school, because he clearly has no idea what he's doing. While I highly doubt there's anything you can do at this point, what you can do is make it known to his department that he is out of the loop, and is actually hurting a strong applicant's chance.

 

[Nymphicus]

Can an adcom comment on the validity of premed committee ratings? Really curious if they make an impact, especially for 'unknown' colleges.

From an "unknown" school it really is a wild card. For taking applicants from schools your institution hasn't had experiences/good experiences with, you really do want to avoid any red flags at all. It really is kind of unfortunate and strange that your school put such a discrete number on your application, especially if your school doesn't have a lot of students who apply to medical school.

Where I see it more often is in schools that just pump out medical school applicants, and where the admissions committee has a good understanding of the pre-med committees terms because they see so many applicants from there.

Phrasing is more commonly used than numbers. "Recommend" vs "Highly recommend" vs "unanimously recommend" etc.

 

[Gauss44]

Edit: This reply, like the thread, is about committee letters.

I've never understood what checks and balances are in place, if any, to ensure that a professor wouldn't write a letter of non-recommendation exclusively because s/he doesn't like you.

This process seems wide open for unfairness on any level: dislike, discrimination, jealousy, competition (if his or her child is in your class), etc.

(wishing I had a picture of blindfolded lady justice)

 

[SN12357]

I've never understood what checks and balances are in place, if any, to ensure that a professor wouldn't write a letter of non-recommendation exclusively because s/he doesn't like you.

This process seems wide open for unfairness on any level: dislike, discrimination, jealousy, competition (if his or her child is in your class), etc.

(wishing I had a picture of blindfolded lady justice)

...as opposed to everything else in life?

It's vanishingly rare for someone to say they're going to write a positive letter but actually sabotage you. It's up to you to have good judgment and choose letter writers who know you well and think well of you.

If you have someone write a horrible letter when you thought you were going to get a good one you either accidentally ran into a psychopath or you are a horrible judge of yourself and other people. If you go around thinking other people are out to get you, you need to get your paranoia in check ASAP.

The committee letter is kind of a separate issue, as it is an institutional process that clearly varies in effectiveness and fairness wildly from institution to institution. But that's very different from being worried that any single letter professor's letter will be sabotage.

 

[Gauss44]

...as opposed to everything else in life?

It's vanishingly rare for someone to say they're going to write a positive letter but actually sabotage you. It's up to you to have good judgment and choose letter writers who know you well and think well of you.

If you have someone write a horrible letter when you thought you were going to get a good one you either accidentally ran into a psychopath or you are a horrible judge of yourself and other people. If you go around thinking other people are out to get you, you need to get your paranoia in check ASAP.

The committee letter is kind of a separate issue, as it is an institutional process that clearly varies in effectiveness and fairness wildly from institution to institution. But that's very different from being worried that any single letter professor's letter will be sabotage.

This thread is about COMMITTEE LETTERS. My post is about the SYSTEM, not about any specific individual, and not about me.

That aside, what a nasty first two paragraphs. It makes me wonder what you're like in person. If people talk like that to you, it must be horrible.

 

[darknight]

A good mix of EC's, grades, MCAT score and LOR from professors are more than enough. I just don't feel is fair that some pre-med committee gives you a rank and it can make you either standout or make a big hole in your app like the OP.

 

[Goro]

I do pay very careful attention to pre-med or pre-professional committee letters and thier summation. Seeing a score of 7/10 Or more commonly, 3/5, would leave me underwhelemed about a candidate, BUT, it's not a kiss of death by any means.

The committee's ranking is justified as of when the OP was finishing college, but that was then and this is now, and the OP is a different person.

So, in this case, I'd ignore the 7/10 score and focus on what the OP has done since that time. Sounds like he's done a good job...so OP...good luck!

I don't know that these committee's should be advocates for the candidates (most are, BTW), but their job is also to make an honest assessment of the prospects that the candidate will make a good medical student and doctor.

Can an adcom comment on the validity of premed committee ratings? Really curious if they make an impact, especially for 'unknown' colleges.

 

[Arbor Vitae]

I do pay very careful attention to pre-med or pre-professional committee letters and thier summation. Seeing a score of 7/10 Or more commonly, 3/5, would leave me underwhelemed about a candidate, BUT, it's not a kiss of death by any means.

The committee's ranking is justified as of when the OP was finishing college, but that was then and this is now, and the OP is a different person.

So, in this case, I'd ignore the 7/10 score and focus on what the OP has done since that time. Sounds like he's done a good job...so OP...good luck!

I don't know that these committee's should be advocates for the candidates (most are, BTW), but their job is also to make an honest assessment of the prospects that the candidate will make a good medical student and doctor.

How do you feel about the fact that school's are now charging student's for the process and basically just using the committee as a means to make money?

 

[aesculapian]

How do you feel about the fact that school's are now charging student's for the process and basically just using the committee as a means to make money?

Not all schools do this, just FYI.