Prematch

[Doowai]

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Dang. I got the first prematch offer of the season. This happened last year. Both prematch offers last year from places that were good, but not number 1 choices.

It is near my parents but once again far from my wife and kids who I do not want to move.

I know many AMG's think a prematch is a great idea, but for FMG's and IMG's the option throws a monkey wrench into things. its like the old PRICE IS RIGHT tv show - do you want to keep what you have or risk trading it for what is behind door number 1 (most of you are probably too young to get the cultural television reference). Its good program - lots of AMG;s (I did not meet their criteria, but I schmoozed), XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx EDITED XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx. . My kids school system is so great - my daughter took college level courses in 9th grade, my son is taking his second year of college credit calculus and taking calculus based physics his senior year - and it is a PUBLIC school

Do I take this prematch or wait for a local offer (which may not come). I have less than 10 interviews set up so my odds of matching are not great.

Dang what do I do (that is a rhetorical question) you do not have to answer - that is what my magic 8 ball is for.

But its to share with some of you the tense drama of being a less than desireable FMG.

For those other FMG/IMGs it an happen. I am oooooold, mediocre (at best ) USMLE scores with a fail, Caribbean grad (not one of the big 3), have reisgned from a program already. In other words I am a very poor choice - but getting into a residency for those of us from the "island of the misfits" it is mostly being liked by those in the program.

I think there are 3 distinct steps an IMG/FMG must take to get a residency (other than simply sending in your application like AMG's do), Its largely schmoozing. Sad but true

FMG's it does happen - even to the less desireable of us, its largely a matter of making yourself visible in a good way. you can do it. if any of you have questions feel free to PM me - I get alot of hate posts from a few AMG's on here so I hesitate to ever post my ideas.

 

[dragonfly99]

If I were you, I'd take the offer if the program seems halfway decent. I think in your situation you are risking a whole damn lot if you don't take it. But I totally understand why you don't want to be far away from your family. You don't say how far away this is (i.e. is it a 4 hour drive vs. far, far away). You might have to choose what is more important to you at this point...live in only one small geographic area, vs. willing to move so you can ultimately practice medicine. I mean, are you really willing to risk not ever becoming a practicing physician? I wouldn't be after 4 years of med school in a foreign country, probably enormous debt, and already quitting one program (i.e. essentially having a Scarlet letter on your chest). I'm totally not trying to be harsh. I don't have 3 kids (or any, in fact) and I'm totally sure it might change my point of view if I did.

Is there no way your family would want to move with you? I know it would be a huge sacrifice, but I'm sure your kids will do well no matter what school they attend...I guess it's very hard if they are in high school, though.

You know, you could think about trying to do your intern year at this program, then see if it's possible to tranfer to a program close to home for 2nd and 3rd year...I know it's sort of screwing over the 1st program, but they'd find someone to fill your PGY2 spot I'm sure. Don't tell them now, of course, if you take the prematch.

Other option would be to see whether you can get them to hold the prematch for you for a couple of weeks (i.e. if you have an interview coming up at the program by your home). I guess they won't do that, though...

I was in a tiny bit similar situation with fellowship match last year...a program osaid they would offer me a spot outside the match but I had to take it by a certain date. They were not my preferred program...in fact were my least preferred out of 8 or 9. I had to decide whether to take the spot vs. gamble that I would match...I was a pretty OK applicant but it's a competitive subspecialty. I decided to roll the dice with the match and then did well.

For your situation, I would just be scared not to take the prematch. BUT you better not take it unless you are sure you are going to finish your intern year...to quit again would be a complete disaster and I think it would seal your fate in terms of ever being able to get another residency.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Doowai,

Two things:

First, although you may bemoan a prematch spot some on SDN will not get a prematch offer and not match. I fully understand the conundrum a prematch puts you in, but please understand how your above post may anger others here. "How dare you complain about a prematch, when I have nothing!" some may say.

Second, and more importantly, it appears that you may have a memory problem. Please go back and read your own threads from earlier this year. I'll help you and summarize them like this (and I rarely write in all caps):

YOU FAILED OUT OF YOUR PRIOR RESIDENCY BECAUSE YOU WERE SEPARATED FROM YOUR FAMILY.

You cannot, cannot consider prematching somewhere distant from your family. You will not be happy, and you will not survive. Not even for a PGY-1. This does not suggest that you are "weak", but just that your family life is more important to you than your training.

If you take the prematch, you MUST move your family with you. No excuses, no other options. Do not be foolish. Do not make the same mistake twice. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

 

[dragonfly99]

OK, I reread the old thread and I kind of agree.
I think you need to move your family with you. I mean, your senior in high school son might be able to live with one of his friends (or another relative?) there in town to finish his senior year. Your younger kids need to come with you. Hopefully your wife and you talked about med school before you went, and had a team plan to do this together. It does sound like your family is more important to you than your residency, and you probably won't survive residency without them being there with you....so I guess move them vs. you take your chances you can get a spot close to home. Perhaps you can ask the residency to hold your prematch contract for a few weeks before you decide to take it vs. not? They probably won't...but perhaps they would consider if you explained it is because you are trying to figure out about moving your wife and kids...

 

[Histiocytosis X]

its like the old PRICE IS RIGHT tv show - do you want to keep what you have or risk trading it for what is behind door number 1 (most of you are probably too young to get the cultural television reference).

That's "Let's Make A Deal," no? Don't have to be old to know that one...

I know it's not a direct comparison, but if it helps make your decision for you, there is a well-known game theory problem involving this very situation on Let's Make A Deal! (and it says you should switch)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_hall_problem

But seriously, like aPD, I don't know why you're even considering taking this offer... Either move your family or stop going on interviews that are too far away for you to stay with them.

 

[DonStracci]

Don't take the prematch and stay near your family. Spouse/kids come first in my mind... it's nice that you'd be near your parents but still... take the chance and wait.

 

[doc39]

Doowai-
sent you pm....thanx ahead of time

 

[sandraf]

Doowai: everything has its price and you need to know what price you are willing to pay to be in this particular residency. I wouldn't move and wouldn't live away from my family, so I applied to only two residency programs, in the city I live in, and, thanks God, I was invited to be interviewed in both. It's not a matter of comparing family with career and deciding which one is more important. But I would be a miserable doctor away from them, and I would be a miserable person (and wife and mother) if I had to give up being a doctor, so I'm trying to have it all.
Good luck in your decision.

 

[Doowai]

For those that sent me PM's, I read them all - sorry I sort of did a cut and paste on some of them. My advice is somewhat simple and repetitive, if it does not answer your questions feel free to PM me again.

My last year in school I applied too 5 places locally, got 4 interviews - failed CK by one point in October and dropped out of the match - not realizing I retook it in time (and passed second time) to scramble. I screwed up an interview that year by excusing myself and leaving an interview early.

The next time (one year post grad) I applied to about 100 programs, and just applied - got one interview, did not match. no local interviews

The next time (2 years out) did 100 apps, followed my 3 step process I mentioned and got 15 or so interview invites (no local interviews), went to 10, got 2 prematch offers. took one - resigned

THis year far fewer applications, started way late with the 3 step process, still am doing okay - one early offer so far. The early offer is from a place where I did not meet their basic requirements - oh well ask and ye shall receive. I have some local interviews this year.

So the point is, it can be done even by people like me. if you want to do it don't give up.

The point,

 

[tetris]

Doowai, your PM mailbox is full; I tried PMing the following, but couldn't. So here it is:

I'm not sure I agree with aPD et al. A prematch is a bird in the hand. You might not get another one and you know how tough the actual match is for IMGs.

I didn't get the impression that being away from your family is what screwed you up. Wasn't it more the crappy treatment they gave you on your first day there? (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

If so, does this program (your current offer) seem to have the ability to provide minimal basic human decency to its new interns?

Consider that before you pass it up.

 

[tetris]

Doowai, your PM mailbox is still full...

 

[dragonfly99]

I'm concerned he won't get another match/spot if he doesn't take this one. That doesn't answer the question of whether he should go. I almost think that people like me who aren't married and have not kids shouldn't be allowed tohave an opinion on this one...LOL!

He must be a charming, smooth operator though, to have gotten interviews and got matched after his history that he has (not criticizing him necessarily, just sayin' ...).

 

[Samoa]

He must be a charming, smooth operator though, to have gotten interviews and got matched after his history that he has (not criticizing him necessarily, just sayin' ...).

I know, seriously! Why can't that happen to me?

 

[tetris]

I'm concerned he won't get another match/spot if he doesn't take this one. That doesn't answer the question of whether he should go. I almost think that people like me who aren't married and have not kids shouldn't be allowed tohave an opinion on this one...LOL!

He must be a charming, smooth operator though, to have gotten interviews and got matched after his history that he has (not criticizing him necessarily, just sayin' ...).

I usually do well at dinners with my casual chatting abilities, but have never been offered a prematch.

How do you do it, Doowai???

 

[Hopeforluck]

I usually do well at dinners with my casual chatting abilities, but have never been offered a prematch.

How do you do it, Doowai???

Hello, Doowai,

I too have the same question. Please look at your private message. Thank you very much.🙂

 

[Doowai]

Did not take the prematch - I do not have as many interviews this year as last year (<10 this year) so probably will not match. Haha i LOVE A GAMBLE.

How do I do it - like I said its basically a 3 step process of schmoozing. Its only FP and IM programs so its not all that competitive, and largely schmoozing and selling. Having owned my own business' for many years (almost as long as many of you have been alive) its a matter of building rapport. A good salesman builds rapport within 3 minutes - finding common ground - establishing a "we" situation instead of a "you and me" situation. How can someone say NO to themselves, to family, to a brother - if you are part of the "we" you ARE them - you are not seperate you are already part of them.

I first learned this from a chiropractor who was into scientology back in 1989 - from the book science of work. I am not a scientologist but they do have a few good ideas like the "emotional tone scale" (always enter 1 or 2 tone levels above the other person after checking their emotional indicators) and the triangle. This chiropractor (Dr.Al Reach) use to see

There is a science to human relationships and there are rules to how it works just like anything else. And even though the 3 step process can be easily delineated, it varies from person to person because the selling points of one person is different than the next - just like what makes someone a good defensive tackle in football is different than what makes someone a good wide receiver - but to get drafted in the NFL you have to make sure they see your good points - what sells you for that position. I have gotten tons of PM's asking me about it - and the process is simple - but cannot be made cookie cutter since step 2 and 3 will vary from person to person. Do you even know yourself well enough to sell yourself - a car salesman cannot sell a car without knowing who the buyer is, what the buyer is looking for and the selling points of the car he is selling.

"Know thyself and know thy enemy and there is no fear in 1000 battles" - either Myamoto Musashi or Sun Tsu said that, but who cares - they are dead

 

[tetris]

Doowai, thanks for the post, but can you just spell out the 3 steps for us?

 

[mig26x]

Did not take the prematch - I do not have as many interviews this year as last year (<10 this year) so probably will not match. Haha i LOVE A GAMBLE.

do you take anything seriously? I have been reading your post through the years and it seems everything is a joke/game. And im not trying to start a flame war here, is just that i say what i see.

Its like you like the attention given to you with these post from you.

I wish you good luck in the match, if tis FM and/or IM you certainly can match with less than 10 interviews. Again, good luck. and remember there are hundreds of applicatns dying to have 10 interviews like you.

 

[tetris]

Oh lay off him, mig. He's been through a lot. This is just a forum - how can you judge a person as being serious or not?

 

[howelljolly]

Doowai, thanks for the post, but can you just spell out the 3 steps for us?

Ditto.

 

[Leukocyte]

Did not take the prematch - I do not have as many interviews this year as last year (<10 this year) so probably will not match. Haha i LOVE A GAMBLE.

No comment.🙄

 

[bigDinLV]

By your own admission you are a poor candidate. You'd be silly not to take the prematch and move your family so they can stay close.