Prematches?

[Medstudentquest]

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Hey all, I'm wondering if it's possible/customary/logical to ask for an outside the match position at a place where I've interviewed at?

I really like the program and curious if it would be a death sentence as far as ranking goes if they said no, or whether it makes sense?

 

[adagio]

Dont ask. Some programs consider prematches unfair. If the program is interested in recruiting you they will tell you.

 

[splik]

Dont ask. Some programs consider prematches unfair. If the program is interested in recruiting you they will tell you.

Agree with this. It is inappropriate to ask for a prematch and it comes off a little desperate. If the program is interested in you and they offer prematches they will make you an offer. The only situation it is appropriate to ask about prematches is if you have been offered a prematch by program x, and would seriously consider it, but would like to match into program y. In that circumstance, assuming these programs are not in hugely different leagues, it would be acceptable to contact program y and ask what their thoughts are.

They may tell you to take the prematch or your chances aren't high of matching there, or they may make you an offer (though most top programs have stopped making prematches), or they may say we will rank you highly if you continue with the match but feel that prematches break the spirit of the match and are unethical etc.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Agree with this. It is inappropriate to ask for a prematch and it comes off a little desperate. If the program is interested in you and they offer prematches they will make you an offer. The only situation it is appropriate to ask about prematches is if you have been offered a prematch by program x, and would seriously consider it, but would like to match into program y. In that circumstance, assuming these programs are not in hugely different leagues, it would be acceptable to contact program y and ask what their thoughts are.

They may tell you to take the prematch or your chances aren't high of matching there, or they may make you an offer (though most top programs have stopped making prematches), or they may say we will rank you highly if you continue with the match but feel that prematches break the spirit of the match and are unethical etc.

Ok, thank you for the insight. I am precisely in that position though! I have a program that has made an offer, and I'm reluctant to turn it down since I don't know how the match will work out. There is one program in particular where I interviewed which is literally *perfect* for me and would be very happy there! I am concerned that if I ask, they will consider it wrong/out of line and not rank me at all. But at the same time, I don't want to turn this other program down and get up with nada.

Do you think it's risky to ask for a prematch given my situation?

 

[Medstudentquest]

Agree with this. It is inappropriate to ask for a prematch and it comes off a little desperate. If the program is interested in you and they offer prematches they will make you an offer. The only situation it is appropriate to ask about prematches is if you have been offered a prematch by program x, and would seriously consider it, but would like to match into program y. In that circumstance, assuming these programs are not in hugely different leagues, it would be acceptable to contact program y and ask what their thoughts are.

They may tell you to take the prematch or your chances aren't high of matching there, or they may make you an offer (though most top programs have stopped making prematches), or they may say we will rank you highly if you continue with the match but feel that prematches break the spirit of the match and are unethical etc.

I also figured I'd ask this too. I have been told that once an IV is given, scores/grades/things like that don't matter too much as far as ranking, but mostly it's a matter of whether they like you or not. Is this realistic or do scores/grades/etc do actually matter a lot?

 

[splik]

Is there is massive difference in the competitiveness of the programs? If not, I would call the program director and explain that you have been offered a prematch at program x and you are seriously considering taking it however you would much prefer to be at program y for whatever reasons and ask what you think you should do. I would not be too direct about asking for a prematch but pose the dilemma and see what happens. If the PD says 'I think you should take the prematch' then you probably weren't in with a shot at that program anyway! I think these situations are difficult and this is why prematches are unfair to some extent.

If the program offering you the prematch really likes you which I assume they do, they will still rank you highly in the match if you decline the prematch. If you do turn it down do express how happy you would be to match there, but forwhatever reason you would like to stick with the match and will rank them highly.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Is there is massive difference in the competitiveness of the programs? If not, I would call the program director and explain that you have been offered a prematch at program x and you are seriously considering taking it however you would much prefer to be at program y for whatever reasons and ask what you think you should do. I would not be too direct about asking for a prematch but pose the dilemma and see what happens. If the PD says 'I think you should take the prematch' then you probably weren't in with a shot at that program anyway! I think these situations are difficult and this is why prematches are unfair to some extent.

If the program offering you the prematch really likes you which I assume they do, they will still rank you highly in the match if you decline the prematch. If you do turn it down do express how happy you would be to match there, but forwhatever reason you would like to stick with the match and will rank them highly.

Well ironically the prematch offer is at a pretty prestigious place and the position is not in the match, so if I turn it down, it's done, and will be given to someone else. I'm sure that lots of people would love to go there, and I don't want to screw around with the program either, I want to be upfront and honest with them. But in the program that I think I'm a great fit and would be quite happy with, it's definitely less competitive and in a "worse" area but it's just a good fit for me, family, etc. so I think I'd be happier there. I know that last year this program also did not fill, and they have a few foreign MDs in their program, but I was also told that they don't rank everyone. Even though I think I connected well with the PD, you never know!

I don't know what to do! I also don't want to have any issues with the NRMP or violate any type of agreement or anything like that. This sucks guys!

 

[Swisych]

From personal experience, I would advise you to call the PD of the program you're eying and tell him/her that they are your first choice for <insert your reasons here/> but that you have received a prematch offer and you find yourself in a pinch and that you have until <deadline date/> to reply. I know for a fact that, if presented properly and professionally, s/he will see that you are not trying to play the system but that you are offering them an opportunity to secure your residency with them instead of somewhere else.
When it comes to prematch offers, some programs do not want to consider them, especially since it is the last year it is allowed, others use them to retain the candidates they like. PDs know it is (still) part of the process. In any case, present it as a "business" decision and take comfort in the fact that you already have a bird in hand. If the 2nd program doesn't want to extend the prematch offer for whatever reason, if presented correctly and professionally, well you at least have tried.

My 2 cents

 

[gutonc]

Ok, thank you for the insight. I am precisely in that position though! I have a program that has made an offer, and I'm reluctant to turn it down since I don't know how the match will work out. There is one program in particular where I interviewed which is literally *perfect* for me and would be very happy there! I am concerned that if I ask, they will consider it wrong/out of line and not rank me at all. But at the same time, I don't want to turn this other program down and get up with nada.

Do you think it's risky to ask for a prematch given my situation?

The general rule is that, if this program would otherwise be in your top 3-4, you should jump on the pre-match offer. There are exceptions of course, YMMV, yadda, yadda, yadda.

We recently discussed this exact topic in the IM forum.

A lot of people there gave the advice you're getting here. But I actually have a different take on the situation. Assuming Program A (the one offering you a pre-match spot) would be in your top 3-4 on your rank list and you would be happy there (putting aside for the moment that Program B is "perfect" for you), you have nothing to lose by asking Program B for a pre-match. If they say "yes" then you're golden. If they say no, you grab the spot at Program A and, guess what?, you're still golden.

 

[Medstudentquest]

The general rule is that, if this program would otherwise be in your top 3-4, you should jump on the pre-match offer. There are exceptions of course, YMMV, yadda, yadda, yadda.

We recently discussed this exact topic in the IM forum.

A lot of people there gave the advice you're getting here. But I actually have a different take on the situation. Assuming Program A (the one offering you a pre-match spot) would be in your top 3-4 on your rank list and you would be happy there (putting aside for the moment that Program B is "perfect" for you), you have nothing to lose by asking Program B for a pre-match. If they say "yes" then you're golden. If they say no, you grab the spot at Program A and, guess what?, you're still golden.

This is a good point. However, the issue is that program offering pre-match, while it may be ok for me, would present all sorts of job/professional issues for my spouse while program "perfect" would be perfect for both of us. With that said, I don't think it's out of the question for me to match there through regular match. PD even kept stating things like "by the time you start" etc etc. I am concerned about blowing it and not ending up there at all. This would majorly suck! I was even told by the coordinator that they can't tell us where they are ranking us. I guess I'll have to sleep on it.

 

[adagio]

PD even kept stating things like "by the time you start"

NEVER rely on that.

An associate PD emailed a guy I know last year saying (We look forward to working with you in July) Verbatim!

Guess what ... they never ranked him

Gutonc advice is .... Golden

 

[Medstudentquest]

NEVER rely on that.

An associate PD emailed a guy I know last year saying (We look forward to working with you in July) Verbatim!

Guess what ... they never ranked him

Gutonc advice is .... Golden

No worries, I always take that with a grain of salt. I know of too many people have gotten screwed. Nevertheless, I interviewed and I'm planning on ranking them and hope that if they don't give me a prematch (if I do ask?) that they will rank me for the match. Of course I will also rank every other program that I like as well - just in case! 🙂

 

[Killer T Cell]

I don't think there is any harm in politely inquiring whether a program offers prematches and expressing your commitment to that program. Even if they do not offer you a prematch, the commitment and love you demonstrated can only help bump you up a few spots on their rank list. Programs want people who want to be there 🙂 Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[gutonc]

This is a good point. However, the issue is that program offering pre-match, while it may be ok for me, would present all sorts of job/professional issues for my spouse while program "perfect" would be perfect for both of us.

Well this is where you have to use your "clinical judgement" to figure out what's best. There's a reason we have algorithms and not "gospels" in medicine. You take the available population-based data and apply it in the best possible way to your individual situation. You'll be doing a lot of this over the next...rest of your career...get used to it. (Unless you're going into path or rads in which case you can just include "clinical correlation recommended" in your evaluation of the data and you're off the hook.)

 

[peppy]

In a situation where you already have a prematch offer, I think it makes sense to tell the program you really want to go to and ask what their policy on prematching is (even if you don't feel comfortable asking directly for a prematch, the way they respond to a general question about it should tell you what you need to know) I don't think that any program would hold it against you under those circumstances. If the program leadership is rational, they should recognize the dilemma that getting a pre-match offer presents and take your asking as a sign of genuine interest.
Good luck with making the right decision. I remember your old posts on here and I hope that everything works out well for you. 🙂

 

[Medstudentquest]

In a situation where you already have a prematch offer, I think it makes sense to tell the program you really want to go to and ask what their policy on prematching is (even if you don't feel comfortable asking directly for a prematch, the way they respond to a general question about it should tell you what you need to know) I don't think that any program would hold it against you under those circumstances. If the program leadership is rational, they should recognize the dilemma that getting a pre-match offer presents and take your asking as a sign of genuine interest.
Good luck with making the right decision. I remember your old posts on here and I hope that everything works out well for you. 🙂

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I have gotten some good thoughts on here, and I will definitely sleep on it and try to figure out what's best! I wish things were easier but I guess this is how it is. Who knows, I may be posting a happy grin in a few days, or just chicken out and wait until match day. 🙂

 

[adagio]

(Unless you're going into path or rads in which case you can just include "clinical correlation recommended" in your evaluation of the data and you're off the hook.)

lol

 

[Law2Doc]

NEVER rely on that...

agreed. There are PDs who address EVERY interviewee like they are starting in July. most won't get that option. They aren't being misleading, at that point they really don't know how the match will play out. Some some will say, if you come here, while others say when you come here. It shouldn't mean anything to you.