Premed: Ohio State vs. Rice vs. Vanderbilt

[not_real_name]

Hi,

I needed your help on selecting undergrad school for premed track. The choices are as follows -

1. Ohio State University - Have full ride here, including tuition, lodging, boarding, etc. Total cost: $0/year for 4 years.
2. Rice - Have partial scholarship. Total cost: $50K/year for 4 years
3. Vanderbilt - Have partial scholarship. Total cost: $35K/year for 4 years

My comments:
1. Rice: I have visited all three and like Rice campus and student vibe the most. But it is also the most expensive! I am highly interested in neighboring Baylor College of Medicine, and I was told that Baylor loves Rice and that most Rice pre-meds who wish to go to Baylor end up doing so. Not sure how true this is, but if it is, then it would be strong factor to go the Rice route and end up paying significantly for undergrad. On the other hand Baylor does have below average tuition for a top 20 med. school, so that would help financially if I could get admitted there. It gets confusing! What are people's thoughts? Any Rice premed who can chime in here? Their premed acceptance rate for medical college is 90%.

2. Vanderbilt: I did not like the campus a lot, but did not dislike it either. I am told it has strong premed program. It is closer to home, so that is a big plus, from a family support perspective. In general, I hear a lot of good things about Vanderbilt and Nashville, and it is also cheaper than Rice. But at the same time, not sure if their Commons dorm system for freshmen is as good as the residential dorm system at Rice. Their premed acceptance rateis 66%, which at first glance seems low, but could be suspect depending on how they filter (or perhaps do not filter!) their premeds.

3. Ohio State: Total cost of attendance is lowest of all three. Also, closer to home, so again a big plus. Not sure how good their premed program or premed advising is. Feels like this place would perhaps be relatively easier to earn high cGPA/sGPA compared to Rice or Vandy due to larger class size, but then I also hear that grade deflation might be an issue. Also I read on the forums here that going to a state school for undergrad might open up state medical college doors but not as many doors in top 20 private schools. Getting out of college at zero cost with zero debt feels awesome, but then am concerned if I am giving up on long term and future opportunities by turning down prestigious and hard earned admissions to highly selective schools at Rice and Vandy.

Please let me know your thoughts, advice, guidance, comments... Thanks!!

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[fdgjfg]

The first thing to consider is probably a rough financial limit - you probably don't want to go over the cap for federal student loans (~28k), and you also don't want to put undue strain on your family/yourself (like if they would have to make lifestyle sacrifices, or you would have to work multiple jobs year-round). If all three pass this checkpoint, then you can move on (sure, having less debt/paying less money is nice, but if you have a substantial preference for one school and it passes this rule of thumb, I think it's worth going for).

Next you might consider pre-med related items, as you've laid out in your post. The problem is that it's so much of a black box - it's hard to interpret admissions rate since it depends on how the advising offices filter (or don't filter) applying students, and grade inflation/deflation is very anecdotal and unlikely to make or break you (as much as jaded top school students whine about how their 3.3 would be a 4.0 at their state program, I can't quite suspend my disbelief). Likewise, there's so much noise going on in med school admissions that you can't really select your undergrad school hoping to get your foot in the door at a specific top 20 medical school. Academically, it's also worth considering if you have any non-medical professional goals. For example, if you think you might switch to banking/consulting, vanderbilt and rice are both semi-targets while ohio state isn't, and the additional prestige (which means additional recruiting opportunities) could be worth a good bit more money.

As a result, I think fit is the item that you should consider most heavily. All three schools are very different:

Ohio State is an enormous state school in a smaller college town. Sports are big, greek life is big, and there will be a large variance among the student body. If you're looking for friends who are more academically/intellectually inclined with their hobbies and passions, you might have to dig a little deeper to find your crew.

Vanderbilt is a small elite private in a mid-sized southern city. The student body sort of prides itself on being halfway in-between two social domains, and a lot of students enjoy the "work hard, play hard" culture. There are SEC sports (although the teams are perennially bad) and a healthy greek life/bars scene. However, there are also plenty of academic interests and clubs, and since the school is more selective and the student body is smaller, there's also an intellectual undercurrent.

Rice is a small elite private (smallest of the three) in sprawling Houston (ironically the largest, most international setting). Here, the residential college system plus no greek life create a very different social atmosphere, where students pride themselves on their quirkiness, academic minded-ness, and intellectual bend.

So it really depends on the social atmosphere that you'd like have in college. It's sort of a spectrum, where Ohio state and Rice are at the ends, and Vanderbilt is in the middle. Maybe you just really like the idea of free tuition so you can spend that money on expensive alcohol, and don't really care how intellectual the atmosphere of the student body is. Or maybe, you want to have rigorous philosophical debates every night with your dorm-mates, and you want your peers and environment to readily facilitate that. It's really up to you.

 

[892002]

I’m a Vandy grad, so I’m a bit biased! Vandy is amazing for pre-med! It is one of the top institutions for NIH funding, so there are plenty of professors just waiting to get undergrads in on projects. The professors are both great scientists and great mentors, which is great if you're aiming for a top med school. In addition, the opportunities for summer research are endless!

There’s also an entire office dedicated to student service, and thus tons of opportunities for extracurricular leadership/service. About 40% of an incoming class is pre-med, so there are tons of health-related clubs/volunteering opportunities including opportunities to take EMR classes/extended service trips. Vanderbilt's hospital/children's hospital is one of the best in the country, and there is a well-structured shadowing program.

The student environment is collaborative and non-competitive, and the pre-med advising is great!! In 2017, Vandy was ranked #1 by Princeton review for happiest students 🙂 Vandy does NOT filter pre-meds, and everybody is eligible for a committee letter regardless of GPA/MCAT, which accounts for the lower acceptance rate. There is a bit of grade deflation though, so be prepared to work very hard!

When did you visit? The campus is absolutely beautiful in the Spring/Fall! The dining system is also one of the best in the country (over 25 places to eat on campus/you can use your card at local restaurants).

 

[FutureSurgical]

I'm a bit biased too. I earned a full-ride to several state schools while holding an acceptance to Johns Hopkins with partial scholarship. I would have loved to attend JHU, but I couldn't pass up the full ride. Now, out of college, I am so glad I took the free schooling.

Ohio State also has an amazing medical school as well. Assuming they're a public institution, they'll heavily favor in-state students.

 

[pioneer22]

pick Rice...BCOM is a huge research center

 

[JPmoleymole]

Ohio state easy

 

[Isomerase]

Current Rice student from Ohio who was in a similar position as you a few years ago. The opportunities that Rice students have in the medical center are unparalleled. At OSU if you're looking for research/clinical opportunities you'll be competing with thousands of other students. At Rice, you can afford to be picky about which lab you want to work in, even in your freshman year. Finding a lab that wants undergrads to work for credit or for pay takes about five minutes. A much smaller student:faculty ratio makes it waaaay easier to get to know professors. Having a student population that is over 30% premed, you'll find that there's an absurd number of health-related organizations on campus. Think it's an accident that we have 85-90% med school acceptance rate every single year? You may come for the academics, but you'll stay because of our social culture - PR ranks us as the first or second happiest university every single year. I could write a book on why the college system is amazing. Vanderbilt is nice, but their GPA's are deflated a significant .15 relative to Rice's (google the grade inflation website and see for yourself).
Yes your GPA will probably be a little higher at OSU, but the resources you will have at Rice will more than makeup for it. Plus, you won't miss those Ohio winters...

 

[Toutie]

$.000 vs $200K +interest vs $140k+interest...take the $.000 and run! Ohio St is a fine school.

If you put in the work, all three schools will get you to med school.

Save the money for med school. You do not want to go to med school with a large undergrad bill.

 

[MedSchoolHopeful777]

Definitely go for OSU, especially if you plan on going to medical school as they are very expensive. Save as much money as you can.

 

[getdown]

First things first, choose a school you're most happy at. That being said, graduating undergrad with 0 debt is an amazing thing in and of itself. Like others said, the interest alone plus the average 250-300K of additional debt you'll acrue for medical school is a painful thing once you start having to pay it back.

Personally, I'm not a big believer that the research opportunities and volunteer/club diversity is all that different. You think that you won't be able to find a research lab or club activities in OSU, one of the largest public universities in the country, compared to Vandy or Rice? Yeah, ok. How many research labs are you going to be in? You really just need 1. Same with volunteering ... how many hospitals do you plan on volunteering or shadowing at? After happiness, finances should be your #2 consideration.

 

[Toutie]

Pay close attention to who is telling you to go to to Rice and Vandy and who is telling you to go for the $.000 debt. Pre-meds...who have not yet had to start paying their loans off... are saying take on the additional debt...us older folks are saying go for NO DEBT! We are not wrong!

Seriously, you will NOT regret having no debt from undergrad. It might be different if it was Podunk U offering you a free ride...but in your case, it is THE Ohio State University. It is one of the finer public schools in the country.

 

[not_real_name]

Thanks for the detailed response!

In terms of fit, my sense is that Rice is a better fit for my personality out of the three, based on the two days I spent there as part of Owl Days for admitted students at Rice. I also attended the half day Anchor day event for admitted students at Vanderbilt, but to be honest I am not sure it was enough time get a full picture. But then the challenge to me is, as you have referred to, whether that fit is worth $200K. Alternately, will my life outcomes be different by spending that much more? If so, then perhaps I should go for Rice. If not, perhaps I should compromise on fit and go at the other end of the spectrum and go to OSU. Any thoughts from everybody else on this forum?

The first thing to consider is probably a rough financial limit - you probably don't want to go over the cap for federal student loans (~28k), and you also don't want to put undue strain on your family/yourself (like if they would have to make lifestyle sacrifices, or you would have to work multiple jobs year-round). If all three pass this checkpoint, then you can move on (sure, having less debt/paying less money is nice, but if you have a substantial preference for one school and it passes this rule of thumb, I think it's worth going for).

Next you might consider pre-med related items, as you've laid out in your post. The problem is that it's so much of a black box - it's hard to interpret admissions rate since it depends on how the advising offices filter (or don't filter) applying students, and grade inflation/deflation is very anecdotal and unlikely to make or break you (as much as jaded top school students whine about how their 3.3 would be a 4.0 at their state program, I can't quite suspend my disbelief). Likewise, there's so much noise going on in med school admissions that you can't really select your undergrad school hoping to get your foot in the door at a specific top 20 medical school. Academically, it's also worth considering if you have any non-medical professional goals. For example, if you think you might switch to banking/consulting, vanderbilt and rice are both semi-targets while ohio state isn't, and the additional prestige (which means additional recruiting opportunities) could be worth a good bit more money.

As a result, I think fit is the item that you should consider most heavily. All three schools are very different:

Ohio State is an enormous state school in a smaller college town. Sports are big, greek life is big, and there will be a large variance among the student body. If you're looking for friends who are more academically/intellectually inclined with their hobbies and passions, you might have to dig a little deeper to find your crew.

Vanderbilt is a small elite private in a mid-sized southern city. The student body sort of prides itself on being halfway in-between two social domains, and a lot of students enjoy the "work hard, play hard" culture. There are SEC sports (although the teams are perennially bad) and a healthy greek life/bars scene. However, there are also plenty of academic interests and clubs, and since the school is more selective and the student body is smaller, there's also an intellectual undercurrent.

Rice is a small elite private (smallest of the three) in sprawling Houston (ironically the largest, most international setting). Here, the residential college system plus no greek life create a very different social atmosphere, where students pride themselves on their quirkiness, academic minded-ness, and intellectual bend.

So it really depends on the social atmosphere that you'd like have in college. It's sort of a spectrum, where Ohio state and Rice are at the ends, and Vanderbilt is in the middle. Maybe you just really like the idea of free tuition so you can spend that money on expensive alcohol, and don't really care how intellectual the atmosphere of the student body is. Or maybe, you want to have rigorous philosophical debates every night with your dorm-mates, and you want your peers and environment to readily facilitate that. It's really up to you.

 

[not_real_name]

Thanks for the detailed insights into Vandy! I visited Vandy campus during Anchor days for admitted students in April. I agree with you on the dining system - it was just amazing!

My sense of Vandy was that the students seemed quite competitive compared to the collaborative feel projected at Rice, although that may simply have been a sampling issue that day. Vandy did not share as much as Rice about their pre-med opportunities, so I definitely appreciate your detailed response below on those aspects!

I like Vandy not filtering their pre-meds (from a moral perspective). But at the same time, I am a bit bothered by the grade deflation aspect. Although I understand that simply means one has to work a bit harder, it also feels that is one more hurdle off many hurdles on the pre-med path, that is added.

Congratulations on your heading to Dartmouth! What was your journey like at Vandy to achieve this goal and what were the pitfalls you encountered at Vandy to getting there? Do you have any insights which can perhaps help me broaden my decision making on Vandy, based on your own experience on this journey to Dartmouth?

I’m a Vandy grad, so I’m a bit biased! Vandy is amazing for pre-med! It is one of the top institutions for NIH funding, so there are plenty of professors just waiting to get undergrads in on projects. The professors are both great scientists and great mentors, which is great if you're aiming for a top med school. In addition, the opportunities for summer research are endless!

There’s also an entire office dedicated to student service, and thus tons of opportunities for extracurricular leadership/service. About 40% of an incoming class is pre-med, so there are tons of health-related clubs/volunteering opportunities including opportunities to take EMR classes/extended service trips. Vanderbilt's hospital/children's hospital is one of the best in the country, and there is a well-structured shadowing program.

The student environment is collaborative and non-competitive, and the pre-med advising is great!! In 2017, Vandy was ranked #1 by Princeton review for happiest students 🙂 Vandy does NOT filter pre-meds, and everybody is eligible for a committee letter regardless of GPA/MCAT, which accounts for the lower acceptance rate. There is a bit of grade deflation though, so be prepared to work very hard!

When did you visit? The campus is absolutely beautiful in the Spring/Fall! The dining system is also one of the best in the country (over 25 places to eat on campus/you can use your card at local restaurants).

 

[not_real_name]

You seemed to have been in a similar situation as me! Would you mind sharing your experiences - which state school did you go to, what was your pre-med experience like including pitfalls, what did you do after college, etc?

You are right - Ohio State is a top 35 public medical school, and they do somewhat favor their own in-state undergrads, so that is a factor in its favor. The alternate question is whether Rice or Vandy would give me opportunities better than OSU medical school? e.g. in your case, do you feel JHU would have given you better opportunities, than what you are currently doing after college, if you had paid more for JHU?

I'm a bit biased too. I earned a full-ride to several state schools while holding an acceptance to Johns Hopkins with partial scholarship. I would have loved to attend JHU, but I couldn't pass up the full ride. Now, out of college, I am so glad I took the free schooling.

Ohio State also has an amazing medical school as well. Assuming they're a public institution, they'll heavily favor in-state students.

 

[FutureSurgical]

Pay close attention to who is telling you to go to to Rice and Vandy and who is telling you to go for the $.000 debt. Pre-meds...who have not yet had to start paying their loans off... are saying take on the additional debt...us older folks are saying go for NO DEBT! We are not wrong!

Seriously, you will NOT regret having no debt from undergrad. It might be different if it was Podunk U offering you a free ride...but in your case, it is THE Ohio State University. It is one of the finer public schools in the country.

But for real though... I got to travel in and out of the country by just saving up for a few months. No debt = all the money I get from my paycheck is in my pocket, save a few bills. THE Ohio State University is an amazing college. Everyone I know who went there also turned down acceptances from amazing schools (ND, Purdue, Northwestern, and Yale.)

 

[FutureSurgical]

You seemed to have been in a similar situation as me! Would you mind sharing your experiences - which state school did you go to, what was your pre-med experience like including pitfalls, what did you do after college, etc?

You are right - Ohio State is a top 35 public medical school, and they do somewhat favor their own in-state undergrads, so that is a factor in its favor. The alternate question is whether Rice or Vandy would give me opportunities better than OSU medical school? e.g. in your case, do you feel JHU would have given you better opportunities, than what you are currently doing after college, if you had paid more for JHU?

I'll PM you

 

[OddNath]

Thanks for the detailed response!

In terms of fit, my sense is that Rice is a better fit for my personality out of the three, based on the two days I spent there as part of Owl Days for admitted students at Rice. I also attended the half day Anchor day event for admitted students at Vanderbilt, but to be honest I am not sure it was enough time get a full picture. But then the challenge to me is, as you have referred to, whether that fit is worth $200K. Alternately, will my life outcomes be different by spending that much more? If so, then perhaps I should go for Rice. If not, perhaps I should compromise on fit and go at the other end of the spectrum and go to OSU. Any thoughts from everybody else on this forum?

Will your life outcomes be appreciably better for going to Rice vs OSU? I don’t think any one of us can answer that, since life doesn’t really work that way. I think to answer this— if you go to OSU, will you go out of your way starting day #1 to find like-minded friends/organizations where you’ll thrive, or will you go in with the mindset that you don’t fit in and close yourself off? If you go to Rice, will you immerse yourself in the college system and take full advantage of the course offerings (including humanities, etc, which are fantastic), or will you keep thinking about the $200,000 that is accumulating interest?

About Baylor med school “loving” Rice kids or whatever— myself, and anecdotally a bunch of my friends, did not even get interviews at BCM. Hilariously, they actually forgot to send me a rejection letter 😉 So, going to Rice does not guarantee a BCM acceptance.

Based on my experiences in MD/PhD admissions- kids from state schools can do very well in med school admissions. To do this, I would recommend majoring in something you are passionate about (can be humanities or whatever- do an honors thesis if so, start talking to those professors from the beginning), do meaningful clinical/volunteer work, and of course keep your grades up and dedicate at least part of a summer to the MCAT (don’t skimp, take a course).

I very much enjoyed my time as a Rice undergrad...but there’s no way I would’ve gone there for $50,000/year. As I’ve said in another thread- think about what else you could do with a fraction of that money. Study abroad? Summer research at Harvard or Oxford? Medical mission trips over Christmas holiday break? There’s a lot of ways you can enrich your undergrad experience outside of school.

 

[not_real_name]

Great to find an Ohio Student at Rice!

I agree that I find Rice's location next to Baylor and Texas Medical Center to be very attractive, for the research/clinical opportunities. In fact, I would love to go to Baylor for medical school and if going to Rice would in any way make it easier to go to Baylor, then I think that would be a strong factor in favor of attending Rice. Do you know roughly how many of the approx. 200 pre-meds at Rice every year get admitted to Baylor college of medicine?

Also, I found a challenge with going to Baylor from Rice for Ohio students - AAMC data shows that last year Baylor admitted roughly 84% students with Texas residency. That means out of roughly 6000 non-Texas resident applicants, they admitted around 30 i.e. 0.5%! That seems quite daunting. At the same time there seems to be some option to get TX residency in junior year at Rice, based on some posts here by Rice students, and thus be a stronger in-state applicant to Baylor. As an Ohio student on pre-med track at Rice, do you know how feasible it is for getting TX residency (by buying a condo as per those posts) so as to be a stronger applicant for Rice? Is it something your out-of-state peers at Rice as well as you have considered? Thanks!

Current Rice student from Ohio who was in a similar position as you a few years ago. The opportunities that Rice students have in the medical center are unparalleled. At OSU if you're looking for research/clinical opportunities you'll be competing with thousands of other students. At Rice, you can afford to be picky about which lab you want to work in, even in your freshman year. Finding a lab that wants undergrads to work for credit or for pay takes about five minutes. A much smaller student:faculty ratio makes it waaaay easier to get to know professors. Having a student population that is over 30% premed, you'll find that there's an absurd number of health-related organizations on campus. Think it's an accident that we have 85-90% med school acceptance rate every single year? You may come for the academics, but you'll stay because of our social culture - PR ranks us as the first or second happiest university every single year. I could write a book on why the college system is amazing. Vanderbilt is nice, but their GPA's are deflated a significant .15 relative to Rice's (google the grade inflation website and see for yourself).
Yes your GPA will probably be a little higher at OSU, but the resources you will have at Rice will more than makeup for it. Plus, you won't miss those Ohio winters...

 

[OddNath]

Great to find an Ohio Student at Rice!

I agree that I find Rice's location next to Baylor and Texas Medical Center to be very attractive, for the research/clinical opportunities. In fact, I would love to go to Baylor for medical school and if going to Rice would in any way make it easier to go to Baylor, then I think that would be a strong factor in favor of attending Rice. Do you know roughly how many of the approx. 200 pre-meds at Rice every year get admitted to Baylor college of medicine?

Also, I found a challenge with going to Baylor from Rice for Ohio students - AAMC data shows that last year Baylor admitted roughly 84% students with Texas residency. That means out of roughly 6000 non-Texas resident applicants, they admitted around 30 i.e. 0.5%! That seems quite daunting. At the same time there seems to be some option to get TX residency in junior year at Rice, based on some posts here by Rice students, and thus be a stronger in-state applicant to Baylor. As an Ohio student on pre-med track at Rice, do you know how feasible it is for getting TX residency (by buying a condo as per those posts) so as to be a stronger applicant for Rice? Is it something your out-of-state peers at Rice as well as you have considered? Thanks!

I address some of this in my post above- getting into BCM from Rice (even as a TX resident) is not a guarantee. I went to Rice as a TX resident and did not get an interview at BCM for med school.

As a Rice student- you don’t automatically get TX residency. The ppl I knew who were from out of state and wanted TX residency literally had to buy a condo to make that happen. Or spend at least a year afterwards working full time in Texas. I’m not aware of any other ways to get TX residency (other than property ownership or full time employment).

 

[892002]

Thanks for the detailed insights into Vandy! I visited Vandy campus during Anchor days for admitted students in April. I agree with you on the dining system - it was just amazing!

My sense of Vandy was that the students seemed quite competitive compared to the collaborative feel projected at Rice, although that may simply have been a sampling issue that day. Vandy did not share as much as Rice about their pre-med opportunities, so I definitely appreciate your detailed response below on those aspects!

I like Vandy not filtering their pre-meds (from a moral perspective). But at the same time, I am a bit bothered by the grade deflation aspect. Although I understand that simply means one has to work a bit harder, it also feels that is one more hurdle off many hurdles on the pre-med path, that is added.

Congratulations on your heading to Dartmouth! What was your journey like at Vandy to achieve this goal and what were the pitfalls you encountered at Vandy to getting there? Do you have any insights which can perhaps help me broaden my decision making on Vandy, based on your own experience on this journey to Dartmouth?

I chose to do my undergrad at Vandy for 2 main reasons. 1. It was one of the few institutions with a well-established undergraduate neuroscience program. 2. Its commitment to service. Service to local, national, and international communities is ingrained in Vanderbilt's identity. I know that many schools have opportunities for service, but the diversity/variety of service experiences and the support that the school administration gives to supporting student service is unparalleled.

The required pre-med courses are known for being extremely challenging, and some intro classes are graded on a curve (only 10% or something of students get A's). Upper level classes are still challenging but are usually not graded on a curve. In general, Vanderbilt students are supportive and value collaboration, but they also love/seek out challenges (students sometimes lobby for easy classes to be made more challenging using the school's feedback system). So...there is a bit of grade deflation/classes are challenging, but as a student, you'll be well-equipped to meet those challenges. There's a student tutoring service/people regularly study together and share notes/flashcards/previous exams/TAs and professors will be ecstatic if you're a frequent office hours visitor. Because the classes are so challenging, Vandy students tend to be exceptionally well-prepared to take the MCAT. For me, I went a bit overboard and took Orgo, Bio, Neuroscience, Calc, and physics all at once freshmen year and ended up with a ~2.0sGPA (which I eventually brought up to a 3.52). Many Vandy students tend to have average GPAs (~3.6-3.7) and high MCATs (>=516). As long as you study hard/know your limit you should not only be fine, but also develop the perseverance and study habits you'll need to thrive in med school. If you want to go to a school where you can get a >3.9 with little work, than Vandy is not for you.

If you do choose Vanderbilt, my advice to you is to seek out/take advantage of ALL Vanderbilt had to offer because the opportunities are truly endless! Take advantage of the research. All of the PIs HIGHLY value undergraduate research (you'll NEVER EVER be in a lab where you only wash glassware/do menial tasks). Take advantage of the ECs! Join/run for leadership in some of Vanderbilt's outstanding/nationally recognized service organizations (ASB and VSVS for example). Take advantage of the many opportunities to study abroad/scholarships for long-term international service trips. Take advantage of Vanderbilt's state of the are hospital/world class physicians by shadowing/volunteering/seeking mentorship. Take advantage of the professors who are always welcoming and willing to help! Take advantage of the excellent pre-med advising. The HPAO office is amazing and the advisors are both knowledgable and genuinely care about the students/they host dozens of events every semester where you have the opportunity to network with many top medical schools.

I also had the opportunity to go to my excelent state school (US news top 40), but I chose Vanderbilt despite the higher cost, and would not trade my experience for anything!

 

[not_real_name]

The lack of debt, in fact the complete lack of cost of education at Ohio State University is certainly a huge factor in my mind! My parents highly appreciate this option that Ohio State has kindly offered us. But on the flip side is this nagging thought that perhaps I might be happier at Rice or Vandy, and if so would I be making a mistake. Not sure, if I can put this dilemma in the right words. But no doubt, the zero cost of OSU combined with their strong reputation and ranking is a compelling factor.

Pay close attention to who is telling you to go to to Rice and Vandy and who is telling you to go for the $.000 debt. Pre-meds...who have not yet had to start paying their loans off... are saying take on the additional debt...us older folks are saying go for NO DEBT! We are not wrong!

Seriously, you will NOT regret having no debt from undergrad. It might be different if it was Podunk U offering you a free ride...but in your case, it is THE Ohio State University. It is one of the finer public schools in the country.

$.000 vs $200K +interest vs $140k+interest...take the $.000 and run! Ohio St is a fine school.

If you put in the work, all three schools will get you to med school.

Save the money for med school. You do not want to go to med school with a large undergrad bill.

 

[Toutie]

The lack of debt, in fact the complete lack of cost of education at Ohio State University is certainly a huge factor in my mind! My parents highly appreciate this option that Ohio State has kindly offered us. But on the flip side is this nagging thought that perhaps I might be happier at Rice or Vandy, and if so would I be making a mistake. Not sure, if I can put this dilemma in the right words. But no doubt, the zero cost of OSU combined with their strong reputation and ranking is a compelling factor.

You can't ask yourself "what if?", otherwise you will never be happy. What if you go to Rice and you end up not liking it. Will you be asking yourself..."did I make a $200K mistake?" You have to make a choice and then move on and fully embrace your choice.

If you choose Ohio St, you have to put the thought of "would I have been happier at Rice or Vandy" completely out of your mind. Make your choice with no regrets. You CAN be very happy at Ohio St if you let yourself be. If you go there with regrets, you very likely won't be happy there.

 

[not_real_name]

I think you are right - whatever the decision, the right frame of mind on it is very important. It does not help if I go to OSU but close myself because I continue to be entangled with Rice, alternately I will not be happy at Rice if I am brooding on the $200K bill.

I am quite surprised by the experience of your friends and you (from Rice) not even getting interviews at Baylor! At Owl Days, one of the anecdotal feedback I got from some of the students on the panel was that to the best of their knowledge all of the students who truly wanted to go to Baylor did indeed get into Baylor! I guess it was indeed anecdotal 🙂 Another anecdotal feedback at Rice was that getting into Baylor from Rice was relatively easy since most of the research assistants who worked with Baylor professors and researchers tended to be Rice undergrads. Did you have the same experience?

I am intrigued by your MD/PhD background. I have done research while in high school at the local university. While I loved it and would definitely like to continue doing it in college, I am not sure if I am passionate enough for it to be a career while in medicine, at this point of time, but it could be an option based on my research experiences in college. Do you believe that your experiences at Rice were instrumental in getting admitted to MD/PhD at UT Houston?

"I very much enjoyed my time as a Rice undergrad...but there’s no way I would’ve gone there for $50,000/year. " - i think this was one of your most impactful statements for me. Thanks for your candidness! It is clear you loved your Rice experience, but it was not of that high a value as paying $50K/year. That tells me a lot.

Will your life outcomes be appreciably better for going to Rice vs OSU? I don’t think any one of us can answer that, since life doesn’t really work that way. I think to answer this— if you go to OSU, will you go out of your way starting day #1 to find like-minded friends/organizations where you’ll thrive, or will you go in with the mindset that you don’t fit in and close yourself off? If you go to Rice, will you immerse yourself in the college system and take full advantage of the course offerings (including humanities, etc, which are fantastic), or will you keep thinking about the $200,000 that is accumulating interest?

About Baylor med school “loving” Rice kids or whatever— myself, and anecdotally a bunch of my friends, did not even get interviews at BCM. Hilariously, they actually forgot to send me a rejection letter 😉 So, going to Rice does not guarantee a BCM acceptance.

Based on my experiences in MD/PhD admissions- kids from state schools can do very well in med school admissions. To do this, I would recommend majoring in something you are passionate about (can be humanities or whatever- do an honors thesis if so, start talking to those professors from the beginning), do meaningful clinical/volunteer work, and of course keep your grades up and dedicate at least part of a summer to the MCAT (don’t skimp, take a course).

I very much enjoyed my time as a Rice undergrad...but there’s no way I would’ve gone there for $50,000/year. As I’ve said in another thread- think about what else you could do with a fraction of that money. Study abroad? Summer research at Harvard or Oxford? Medical mission trips over Christmas holiday break? There’s a lot of ways you can enrich your undergrad experience outside of school.

Thanks for answering that part of the question on residency. Again, your experience as a Texas resident and Rice student not getting into Baylor, but into what I am sure is a highly competitive MD/PhD program at UT Houston, tells me volumes on assumptions and anecdotal experiences about Texas residency, Rice and Baylor.

I address some of this in my post above- getting into BCM from Rice (even as a TX resident) is not a guarantee. I went to Rice as a TX resident and did not get an interview at BCM for med school.

As a Rice student- you don’t automatically get TX residency. The ppl I knew who were from out of state and wanted TX residency literally had to buy a condo to make that happen. Or spend at least a year afterwards working full time in Texas. I’m not aware of any other ways to get TX residency (other than property ownership or full time employment).

 

[not_real_name]

Thanks for sharing your detailed experience as well as your advice. It is very insightful! It is very commendable of you to share your stumbling experience of overloading in your freshman year. A key lesson for me, wherever I go. I am of course inspired in the manner in which you recovered from it to get to 3.52 GPA eventually and land up at Dartmouth now! Do you believe that your graduating from Vandy and its brand name in the pre-med field played a role in getting interviews (and eventual admission) at medical colleges, or was it primarily your GPA/MCAT/ECs which drove it?

I chose to do my undergrad at Vandy for 2 main reasons. 1. It was one of the few institutions with a well-established undergraduate neuroscience program. 2. Its commitment to service. Service to local, national, and international communities is ingrained in Vanderbilt's identity. I know that many schools have opportunities for service, but the diversity/variety of service experiences and the support that the school administration gives to supporting student service is unparalleled.

The required pre-med courses are known for being extremely challenging, and some intro classes are graded on a curve (only 10% or something of students get A's). Upper level classes are still challenging but are usually not graded on a curve. In general, Vanderbilt students are supportive and value collaboration, but they also love/seek out challenges (students sometimes lobby for easy classes to be made more challenging using the school's feedback system). So...there is a bit of grade deflation/classes are challenging, but as a student, you'll be well-equipped to meet those challenges. There's a student tutoring service/people regularly study together and share notes/flashcards/previous exams/TAs and professors will be ecstatic if you're a frequent office hours visitor. Because the classes are so challenging, Vandy students tend to be exceptionally well-prepared to take the MCAT. For me, I went a bit overboard and took Orgo, Bio, Neuroscience, Calc, and physics all at once freshmen year and ended up with a ~2.0sGPA (which I eventually brought up to a 3.52). Many Vandy students tend to have average GPAs (~3.6-3.7) and high MCATs (>=516). As long as you study hard/know your limit you should not only be fine, but also develop the perseverance and study habits you'll need to thrive in med school. If you want to go to a school where you can get a >3.9 with little work, than Vandy is not for you.

If you do choose Vanderbilt, my advice to you is to seek out/take advantage of ALL Vanderbilt had to offer because the opportunities are truly endless! Take advantage of the research. All of the PIs HIGHLY value undergraduate research (you'll NEVER EVER be in a lab where you only wash glassware/do menial tasks). Take advantage of the ECs! Join/run for leadership in some of Vanderbilt's outstanding/nationally recognized service organizations (ASB and VSVS for example). Take advantage of the many opportunities to study abroad/scholarships for long-term international service trips. Take advantage of Vanderbilt's state of the are hospital/world class physicians by shadowing/volunteering/seeking mentorship. Take advantage of the professors who are always welcoming and willing to help! Take advantage of the excellent pre-med advising. The HPAO office is amazing and the advisors are both knowledgable and genuinely care about the students/they host dozens of events every semester where you have the opportunity to network with many top medical schools.

I also had the opportunity to go to my excelent state school (US news top 40), but I chose Vanderbilt despite the higher cost, and would not trade my experience for anything!

 

[Toutie]

Also...you can not focus on getting into a certain medical school (Baylor). Do not base your undergrad on hopes of it getting you into a specific med school. When you are ready to apply to medical school, even if you have a perfect application (GPA, MCAT, EC's), there is no guarantee you will get into any one specific school....or even get an interview to that school (as the poster above didn't).

And...keep in mind when you attend those special school days (Owl days, etc)...they are doing their very best to sell you on their school. Same thing will happen on your med school interview days. Not to say they are outright lying to you, but they are putting forth their very sales pitch.

 

[Isomerase]

Great to find an Ohio Student at Rice!

I agree that I find Rice's location next to Baylor and Texas Medical Center to be very attractive, for the research/clinical opportunities. In fact, I would love to go to Baylor for medical school and if going to Rice would in any way make it easier to go to Baylor, then I think that would be a strong factor in favor of attending Rice. Do you know roughly how many of the approx. 200 pre-meds at Rice every year get admitted to Baylor college of medicine?

Also, I found a challenge with going to Baylor from Rice for Ohio students - AAMC data shows that last year Baylor admitted roughly 84% students with Texas residency. That means out of roughly 6000 non-Texas resident applicants, they admitted around 30 i.e. 0.5%! That seems quite daunting. At the same time there seems to be some option to get TX residency in junior year at Rice, based on some posts here by Rice students, and thus be a stronger in-state applicant to Baylor. As an Ohio student on pre-med track at Rice, do you know how feasible it is for getting TX residency (by buying a condo as per those posts) so as to be a stronger applicant for Rice? Is it something your out-of-state peers at Rice as well as you have considered? Thanks!

You are correct in that OOS chances at Baylor are about zilch. Getting in-state residency is possible and is occasionally done, but as another poster said it's a major hassle. Keep in mind Ohio is also one of the best states to have residency for med school admissions. Fixating on a single med school (Baylor or anywhere else) is not the right mindset when it comes to med school admissions.

 

[OddNath]

I am quite surprised by the experience of your friends and you (from Rice) not even getting interviews at Baylor! At Owl Days, one of the anecdotal feedback I got from some of the students on the panel was that to the best of their knowledge all of the students who truly wanted to go to Baylor did indeed get into Baylor! I guess it was indeed anecdotal 🙂 Another anecdotal feedback at Rice was that getting into Baylor from Rice was relatively easy since most of the research assistants who worked with Baylor professors and researchers tended to be Rice undergrads. Did you have the same experience?

Being a research assistant at Baylor does not guarantee BCM acceptance. I did happen to do one summer collaborating with a lab at BCM/Methodist.

I agree with several other posters- there is no reason to be even thinking about one specific medical school right now. Particularly since Ohio has so many good options. At any MD school, your life will be pretty similar- studying in a coffee shop for 1.5-2 years, then getting up early and going to the hospital every day. It’s not magically different at BCM.

I am intrigued by your MD/PhD background. I have done research while in high school at the local university. While I loved it and would definitely like to continue doing it in college, I am not sure if I am passionate enough for it to be a career while in medicine, at this point of time, but it could be an option based on my research experiences in college. Do you believe that your experiences at Rice were instrumental in getting admitted to MD/PhD programs?

I think the biggest factor in getting me into the MD/PhD program were my summer research experiences at MD Anderson— it was part luck and part the right lab at the right time, where I published 4 papers as an undergrad (2 first author). You can do this from any undergrad institution- you can apply to any summer research program (MDACC is just an example, NIH is great as well, or any other research powerhouse, here or abroad). And, these summers can be enjoyable as well- you can live with friends and in a beautiful location, if you like. Many of the formal summer research programs will put you in a group with other highly motivated students, which is a plus.

This is what I mean, when I talk about enriching your undergrad experience. What you do in those summers can go a long way. If you have even one publication as an undergrad, along with a good gpa/MCAT, then MD/PhD programs are a possibility.

 

[892002]

Thanks for sharing your detailed experience as well as your advice. It is very insightful! It is very commendable of you to share your stumbling experience of overloading in your freshman year. A key lesson for me, wherever I go. I am of course inspired in the manner in which you recovered from it to get to 3.52 GPA eventually and land up at Dartmouth now! Do you believe that your graduating from Vandy and its brand name in the pre-med field played a role in getting interviews (and eventual admission) at medical colleges, or was it primarily your GPA/MCAT/ECs which drove it?

No, I don’t think the Vandy name had anything to do with getting interviews. I didn’t have a stellar GPA or MCAT either (Asian, 3.52/516). I think it was mostly my ECs that got me my interview.

Did you get your fin aid from Vandy yet? I know that Vandy is extremely generous with financial aid. Cost is a huge factor, and if you can go to Ohio State for free, compared to $200k for Vandy, then I think it’s definitely worth it.

 

[not_real_name]

Yes, I heard back on fin aid from Vandy. With fin aid, it will be $140K over 4 years at Vandy vs $0 over 4 years at Ohio State vs $200K over 4 years at Rice. I have submitted an appeal with Vandy on fin aid, but have not heard back yet on the appeal. Not sure how generous they are in the appeal process and how long it takes.

No, I don’t think the Vandy name had anything to do with getting interviews. I didn’t have a stellar GPA or MCAT either (Asian, 3.52/516). I think it was mostly my ECs that got me my interview.

Did you get your fin aid from Vandy yet? I know that Vandy is extremely generous with financial aid. Cost is a huge factor, and if you can go to Ohio State for free, compared to $200k for Vandy, then I think it’s definitely worth it.

 

[FutureNeurologist2025]

Hi,

I needed your help on selecting undergrad school for premed track. The choices are as follows -

1. Ohio State University - Have full ride here, including tuition, lodging, boarding, etc. Total cost: $0/year for 4 years.
2. Rice - Have partial scholarship. Total cost: $50K/year for 4 years
3. Vanderbilt - Have partial scholarship. Total cost: $35K/year for 4 years

My comments:
1. Rice: I have visited all three and like Rice campus and student vibe the most. But it is also the most expensive! I am highly interested in neighboring Baylor College of Medicine, and I was told that Baylor loves Rice and that most Rice pre-meds who wish to go to Baylor end up doing so. Not sure how true this is, but if it is, then it would be strong factor to go the Rice route and end up paying significantly for undergrad. On the other hand Baylor does have below average tuition for a top 20 med. school, so that would help financially if I could get admitted there. It gets confusing! What are people's thoughts? Any Rice premed who can chime in here? Their premed acceptance rate for medical college is 90%.

2. Vanderbilt: I did not like the campus a lot, but did not dislike it either. I am told it has strong premed program. It is closer to home, so that is a big plus, from a family support perspective. In general, I hear a lot of good things about Vanderbilt and Nashville, and it is also cheaper than Rice. But at the same time, not sure if their Commons dorm system for freshmen is as good as the residential dorm system at Rice. Their premed acceptance rateis 66%, which at first glance seems low, but could be suspect depending on how they filter (or perhaps do not filter!) their premeds.

3. Ohio State: Total cost of attendance is lowest of all three. Also, closer to home, so again a big plus. Not sure how good their premed program or premed advising is. Feels like this place would perhaps be relatively easier to earn high cGPA/sGPA compared to Rice or Vandy due to larger class size, but then I also hear that grade deflation might be an issue. Also I read on the forums here that going to a state school for undergrad might open up state medical college doors but not as many doors in top 20 private schools. Getting out of college at zero cost with zero debt feels awesome, but then am concerned if I am giving up on long term and future opportunities by turning down prestigious and hard earned admissions to highly selective schools at Rice and Vandy.

Please let me know your thoughts, advice, guidance, comments... Thanks!!

Did you apply to Ohio States Honors college? If not, it’s not too late, you can still participate after your first semester if you get a certain gpa. Ohio State has a great pre med programs with a great hospital to volunteer! I’m only a freshman, but Ohio State is my dream college. If I was fortunate enough to get a full ride I’d definitely go!