Preparing for Residency apps

[Giglby]

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I'm not sure in which forum this belongs -- let me know I'll get it there somehow.

There have been some greatly appreciated posts about the residency application process, but they didn't answer all of my questions. I'm about to start my first year and want to plan what my app is going to look like and how it will represent me (I left my med school app more or less up to luck and thankfully didn't get screwed over -- I don't want to take this chance again).

Here are a few specific questions I have, but any advice is much appreciated. Because I'm just beginning the process, I don't have any particular field in mind and I don't really know how it varies by field or program. Also, if you have insider knowledge, can you please say so so that I and anyone else knows how heavily to weigh your thoughts?:

1| How relatively important are the different sections of the application?
2| How important are clinical versus pre-clinical grades (are clinical WAY more important?)?
3| In what range are you expected to score on the USMLE for competitive fields/programs -- a SD above mean?? And are there any other exams that we have to take?
4| How important are the names of your recommenders? Is it really important to get a well-known person to write your letter? How do you suggest establishing a relationship with such a person? I'm not much of a networker/schmoozer so I don't know how to go about meeting potential recommenders.
5| How important is research versus other ECs/community service? Generally, what purpose do ECs serve -- are they there just to show that we actually do something outside of class or are the particular activities that we choose actually important? Which ECs weigh more? (Before someone comments, no I'm not asking this because I want to pad my resume with impressive activities. I'm asking because it gives me insight into how applications are judged)
6| Aside from AOA, what kind of honors and awards are available? It seems like there were more options for this in undergrad because we were all on such different paths, but now, aside from AOA and some research awards, there aren't many options or much variability between applicants. Also, aside from the general "be a professional, be a leader, etc", how can one reach for AOA membership? It's a lofty goal, I know, but I want to try it.

All comments are very much appreciated ... and sorry for the poor English. I'm dead tired but really needed to get this post up. Thanks!

 

[smq123]

There have been some greatly appreciated posts about the residency application process, but they didn't answer all of my questions. I'm about to start my first year and want to plan what my app is going to look like and how it will represent me

You're about to start first year, and you're already worried about your residency application? 😕

These are good questions, but a) they've been answered in a lot of places on SDN, and b) it's way too early to worry about it.

Focus on doing well in first year. Just concentrate on learning as much as you can, and getting grades as high (or as low) as you're comfortable with. Shadow a little bit, to understand more about the different fields, but don't worry about applying for residency, or even about picking a specialty yet.

You will be inundated with advice about residency applications as you go through third and fourth year. And by then, it will be more specific to you and your interests. So don't think about these things now.

In any case, you can't do much to boost your application as a first year. The best thing you can do for yourself is focus on studying, and making sure that your grades won't hold you back in the event that you wanted to do a very competitive specialty.

 

[GreenShirt]

I'm only an MS2, but here's the general sense I've picked up on from various sources:


1| How relatively important are the different sections of the application?

USMLE Step 1, clinical grades, LORS, ressearch>>>>pre-clincal grades>>extracurricular activities

2| How important are clinical versus pre-clinical grades (are clinical WAY more important?)?

Yes, way more important.

3| In what range are you expected to score on the USMLE for competitive fields/programs -- a SD above mean?? And are there any other exams that we have to take?

Top 5 specialties 2006 average USMLE score 230-240. I think around 220 is overall average.

4| How important are the names of your recommenders? Is it really important to get a well-known person to write your letter? How do you suggest establishing a relationship with such a person? I'm not much of a networker/schmoozer so I don't know how to go about meeting potential recommenders.

A good LOR from unknown person>a mediocre LOR from famous person.
LOR from prospective specialty>LOR from other specialties

You get LORs from your clinical preceptors or PI's under which you do research.

5| How important is research versus other ECs/community service? Generally, what purpose do ECs serve -- are they there just to show that we actually do something outside of class or are the particular activities that we choose actually important? Which ECs weigh more? (Before someone comments, no I'm not asking this because I want to pad my resume with impressive activities. I'm asking because it gives me insight into how applications are judged)

Research>>>>>ECs

6| Aside from AOA, what kind of honors and awards are available? It seems like there were more options for this in undergrad because we were all on such different paths, but now, aside from AOA and some research awards, there aren't many options or much variability between applicants. Also, aside from the general "be a professional, be a leader, etc", how can one reach for AOA membership? It's a lofty goal, I know, but I want to try it.

?...don't know about this one. Study really hard?

 

[yeasterbunny]

Here's the 2007 version of the match outcomes. The general idea is the same of course.

Better advice is, however, just learn the material the best you can, rock Step 1 to the best of your ability, and keep an open mind when is comes to specialties. When you start your clinical rotations you will find you enjoy things more than you expected and end up hating things you expected to like.

 

[smq123]

1| How relatively important are the different sections of the application?

USMLE Step 1, clinical grades, LORS, ressearch>>>>pre-clincal grades>>extracurricular activities

2| How important are clinical versus pre-clinical grades (are clinical WAY more important?)?

Yes, way more important.

Depends on the specialty.

For something like derm or plastics, even your pre-clinical grades can be very important. I have also heard from people that your clinical grades outweigh your Step 1 grades - there was a big debate on SDN a couple of years ago about this. (A physician who wrote an inside guide to getting a residency - not Iserson - posted that Clinical Grades outweighed Step 1, and it ignited a long discussion about that. I'll post the link if I find it.)

4| How important are the names of your recommenders? Is it really important to get a well-known person to write your letter? How do you suggest establishing a relationship with such a person? I'm not much of a networker/schmoozer so I don't know how to go about meeting potential recommenders.

A good LOR from unknown person>a mediocre LOR from famous person.
LOR from prospective specialty>LOR from other specialties

You get LORs from your clinical preceptors or PI's under which you do research.

Actually, no one agrees on whether or not that's true. I've been told several different things by different people.

I've been told by a department chair that it doesn't matter, because no one reads them anyway (and all LORs are invariably positive).

I've been told by another department chair that it DOES matter, because all they can really believe is the reputation of the person recommending you.

So....? 😕

(And yes, you get your LORs from your third year and fourth year attendings. LORs from people that you work with during 1st and 2nd year aren't very meaningful, usually.)

5| How important is research versus other ECs/community service? Generally, what purpose do ECs serve -- are they there just to show that we actually do something outside of class or are the particular activities that we choose actually important? Which ECs weigh more? (Before someone comments, no I'm not asking this because I want to pad my resume with impressive activities. I'm asking because it gives me insight into how applications are judged)

Research>>>>>ECs

Again, it depends on the specialty.

For the top programs in family med, peds, and psych, ECs probably matter more than research. Because they often tend to focus on community-related things, so showing some kind of early experience with community health can be a big deal. For instance, if you apply for family, and your big EC is that you ran a homeless shelter clinic for two years as a med student, that may help you with some of the more well-known family med programs.

For specialties like ortho, plastics, and derm - then research is more important than your ECs.

6| Aside from AOA, what kind of honors and awards are available? It seems like there were more options for this in undergrad because we were all on such different paths, but now, aside from AOA and some research awards, there aren't many options or much variability between applicants. Also, aside from the general "be a professional, be a leader, etc", how can one reach for AOA membership? It's a lofty goal, I know, but I want to try it.

?...don't know about this one. Study really hard?

AOA membership criteria varies by school. It depends on your school's chapter and what they've decided. You can ask around, although you'll probably hear it from other students at some point.

Other awards include research awards, HAH (if your school participates), and a few others that I can't remember right now.

Anyway - see how frustrating residency apps can be? You hear all this stuff in MS1 and MS2 about what's "important," and then, when you pick a specialty in MS3, realize that half of what you were told is either wrong, or only applies to other specialties. Irritating.

 

[Law2Doc]

Actually, no one agrees on whether or not that's true. I've been told several different things by different people.

I've been told by a department chair that it doesn't matter, because no one reads them anyway (and all LORs are invariably positive).

I've been told by another department chair that it DOES matter, because all they can really believe is the reputation of the person recommending you.

So....? 😕

Agreed. I'd guess in light of this, it probably makes sense to get a combo of LORs if you have the option -- one from a really big shot who can say nice things about you and the rest from folks who really know you well. Programs ask for 3 LORs with a max of 4 allowed on ERAS, so you don't have to go all one way or the other.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm not sure in which forum this belongs -- let me know I'll get it there somehow.

There have been some greatly appreciated posts about the residency application process, but they didn't answer all of my questions. I'm about to start my first year ... I'm dead tired but really needed to get this post up. Thanks!

This post probably makes more sense in the ERAS board under the General Residency board. But there is really really really no reason to even think about most of this before your first year. You don't even know what you are going to want to go into at this stage. Wait until third year at the earliest to focus on most of this kind of stuff. You have enough to focus on when starting out in med school already.

As for ranges of USMLE scores, it's pretty meaningless for you to think about this. You are going to want to get the highest score you possibly can regardless. Even in the noncompetitive specialties, there are always better places than others, choices you'd like to have, and board scores largely drive this train.

 

[njbmd]

Moved to Residency Forum.

 

[Giglby]

wow ... didn't expect so many replies so quickly. Thanks! As for me being a first year, I'm not uber-crazy about residency apps yet -- definitely not like *those* hyperactive anal premeds we all knew in undergrad. 😳 I just wanted to get started so I don't go through the "****! I should have been doing X, Y, and Z!" phase.

 

[Law2Doc]

wow ... didn't expect so many replies so quickly. Thanks! As for me being a first year, I'm not uber-crazy about residency apps yet -- definitely not like *those* hyperactive anal premeds we all knew in undergrad. 😳 I just wanted to get started so I don't go through the "****! I should have been doing X, Y, and Z!" phase.

Well, I think the folks in this thread are saying you are focusing too much on this at this stage. There are many smaller mountains to get over on the horizon before you need to start preparing for everest. Learn to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. You seem to want to be sprinting far before it's time. There is nothing right now you should be doing except planning on doing well in first year. Period.