Preparing to apply, is this reasonable?

[vettejunkey]

---

Members don't see this ad.

So I've spent the better part of the night reading the forum looking to see what I would need to do over the next two years to prepare for my 2016 application. Now I'm starting to wonder if there even is anything I can do. There seems to be a lot of info for younger applicants or ones with stellar GPA's/MCAT, but I don't know how much of that applies to me scenario.

I am applying in 2016 and want to set me expectations accordingly as well as do what ever it takes to make it happen. I'll be 28 when I'm applying. I graduated from the University of Utah in 2010 (BS in biology, minor in chem and psych) with a GPA of 3.49 (my upper level bio classes were 3.7 but gen chem dragged me down) and my emphasis was on gene expression. I had some research work, maybe 2 years of part time work but not independent. I also have a fair amount of EC's such as HIV/STD counseling and testing (would this count as patient exposure?) as well as chair of the student advisory counsel. I have several LOR from my PI, department chair and others.

I spent 2011 in the Peace Corps working with people affected by HIV and poverty. I have since worked in the Genomics laboratory in a large clinical laboratory doing Sanger and NGS. I took additional classes at the U of U for ASCP certification in molecular biology (7 credits @3.7). During this I have done research about 20-30 hours year round (so 3 total years when I apply) and hope to have at least 4 publications, one co author, in NGS testing, pathogenic mutation identification and gene discovery. If things go well maybe a primary paper or two.

I haven't taken any exams, but want to know if this goal is feasible before I start to prep for them. As for hours, I had extensive HIV/AIDS training and experience before and during Peace Corps. I can add more patient and shadowing hours if this is in fact possible.

I would really like to go to University of Washington (state) and work towards cardiology and emphasize NGS testing.

Thank you for your consideration

 

[StIGMA]

University of Washington is one of the most competitive programs in the country (don't plan on going there or to any other specific program- you should be willing to move somewhere non-ideal to you). With a very good MCAT you may get in somewhere, but you would be a borderline applicant even with a great MCAT, meaning you may or may not get into any MSTP if you apply to 20+ non-top10 programs. Your age is also a negative factor. I am unsure why you think more shadowing/volunteering will help your app to MD/PhD programs- it won't. Thoroughly consider applying to MD-only programs as well, which would consider you very highly based on your humanitarian work.

What are your career goals?

 

[vettejunkey]

Hi StIGMA,
Thanks for the reply. I was wondering what red flags/concerns you saw and why my age is a negative factor? Other than Peace Corps, I have had relevant experience with no "gaps."

As for my career goals, my two main research topics are gene discovery and variant identification causing aortopathies as well as regulatory and splicing variants with respect to HHT. Clinically I've processed 1,000's of samples both single gene analysis by Sanger as well as multi-gene panels through NGS, and I die a little when I have a negative result. Because of this, I would really like to specialize in cardiology. During my research I only had limited exposure to some of the patients and it totally changed my perspective on research. I have thought about only a PhD or only an MD, but I would really like both to do the research, interact with patients and tie the two together.

 

[StIGMA]

Hi StIGMA,
Thanks for the reply. I was wondering what red flags/concerns you saw and why my age is a negative factor? Other than Peace Corps, I have had relevant experience with no "gaps."

As for my career goals, my two main research topics are gene discovery and variant identification causing aortopathies as well as regulatory and splicing variants with respect to HHT. Clinically I've processed 1,000's of samples both single gene analysis by Sanger as well as multi-gene panels through NGS, and I die a little when I have a negative result. Because of this, I would really like to specialize in cardiology. During my research I only had limited exposure to some of the patients and it totally changed my perspective on research. I have thought about only a PhD or only an MD, but I would really like both to do the research, interact with patients and tie the two together.

The type of research you want to do may very well be conducted with an MD. I may be wrong but it doesn't sound like you want a career where you spend the majority (75%+) time doing research, which is what MD/PhD programs are seeking. MD/PhD programs do consider age, which is actually a red flag because (1) the older the student at matriculation, the more likely to drop out of the PhD and (2) concerns about at what point a career would start (Start MD/PhD program at 30, graduate at 38, finish residency/fellowship at 44, get first R01 grant at 49... so this is on the older side to still be an 'early career' scientist). You are not 'over the hill' but are definitely on the higher end of the applicant curve.

I would also be concerned (maybe another poster could comment) that your research experience doesn't sound like basic science to me. Are you conducting experiments? It sounds like very straightforward clinical testing, which is 'research' but not something you need a PhD to conduct.

 

[URHere]

From what you've written, it sounds like you have a fairly unique and compelling clinical background and it certainly seems like you have some passion for the work you have been doing.

From the research side of things, I'm confused about exactly how much independent work you've done - have you handled your own projects or are you mainly doing data collection for someone else? Demonstrating your ability to carry out experiments at all steps of the process (conception, planning, data collection, analysis, writing, presentation, etc) is vital for the MD/PhD application process. If you are expecting first author papers, you may have that level of experience, but it simply wasn't clear from what you wrote.

Aside from that, your GPA isn't great, but it won't necessary be a deal breaker (especially if you score well on the MCAT).

In contrast to others here, I'll say that I don't think your age will necessarily work against you. Many students in my program (3/5 in my year) were in their late 20s or early 30s when they matriculated. In contrast, I can't remember anyone who has been accepted straight from college. Maturity is important, especially if it brings you perspective.

 

[dmblue]

In contrast to others here, I'll say that I don't think your age will necessarily work against you. Many students in my program (3/5 in my year) were in their late 20s or early 30s when they matriculated. In contrast, I can't remember anyone who has been accepted straight from college. Maturity is important, especially if it brings you perspective.

I agree with everything said except for the comment about straight from college. At my program, 80% are straight from college. Probably 5-10% started at age 25 or later. I think the oldest was 26 or 27. Late 20's wouldn't prevent admission, but it does decrease your chances.

 

[vettejunkey]

Thanks for the feed back, it will help that I'm aware of these things. I've got two years still so I can try to fix somethings. Other than more independent/basic science research and great test scores, is there anything else I could do? For MSTP, do I need much volunteer/patient/shadowing experiences?

 

[Neuronix]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-my-chances-read-before-asking.539268/

Your GPA is low, but could be offset by a high MCAT score. Working full-time, preferably independently, in a research lab is the best use of your time. Your age is not too bad, but you should apply as soon as feasible. Plan to apply to a large number of programs, and know the midwest is much less competitive than the west or mountain west, which may mean that's where you end up regardless of what you do.

 

[Shifty B]

There has been generally good advice in this post. All you can do is try to score well on the MCAT and see where that takes you. There are a lot of good programs in the Midwest that are much less competitive than the coasts, so I second that as a good option.

The age thing, regardless of what we want to think, is an issue that has come up on this board multiple times. You are basically committing to taking the amount of education you have now (12 years grade school + 4 years college), and doing it AGAIN (8 year MD/PhD + 3 year residency + 3 year fellowship). At some point in your late 30s, you're likely to look around and see life passing you and wonder why you still make $24,000. It's doable, but there will be increasing pressures to speed things along. Hell, I started when I was 21, and I still wonder why I still don't have a real job. It's been fun and all, but sometimes I wonder.

Before you say, well, older applicants are more mature, let me tell you this: that's exactly the problem. At some point, a person gets mature enough that they look at their options and see there are other ones. These programs need someone just immature enough to think that committing to 14 more years of education is no big deal!