Prereqs for SMPs (esp. GTown and BU)

[trinitrotoluene]

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After applying to several medical schools, it is becoming appearent that I am about to become a re-applicant. A number of the schools that rejected indicated that my GPA (a few 1/100s of a point below 3.5) could use smoe improvment. Therefore, a few weeks ago, I appilied to GTown's & BU's post-bacc programs.

Then I got another rejection letter and more comments from another admissions dean. He strongly suggested that I take upper-division undergrad biology classes. When I told him about my application to the SMPs, he strongly advised against that.

Now, it is true that a do not have very many upper-division undergrad biology classes. However, I did complete all the traditional pre-reqs, did reasonably well in them, and got a 10 on the MCAT biology section. However, the sterness of his warning still haunts me.

Can someone who has not completed any upper-division undergrad biology classes do well at GTown and BU? Would it be better for someone in my position to go back to undergrad instead of forward to a SMP?

 

[riceman04]

After applying to several medical schools, it is becoming appearent that I am about to become a re-applicant. A number of the schools that rejected indicated that my GPA (a few 1/100s of a point below 3.5) could use smoe improvment. Therefore, a few weeks ago, I appilied to GTown's & BU's post-bacc programs.

Then I got another rejection letter and more comments from another admissions dean. He strongly suggested that I take upper-division undergrad biology classes. When I told him about my application to the SMPs, he strongly advised against that.

Now, it is true that a do not have very many upper-division undergrad biology classes. However, I did complete all the traditional pre-reqs, did reasonably well in them, and got a 10 on the MCAT biology section. However, the sterness of his warning still haunts me.

Can someone who has not completed any upper-division undergrad biology classes do well at GTown and BU? Would it be better for someone in my position to go back to undergrad instead of forward to a SMP?

You will be taking six of your courses with the med school students. It is very intense, so it helps if you have taken at least a semester of biochemistry, cell biology/histology, micro bio, etc...

 

[medstylee]

i think that if you did reasonably well in your bio courses and scored a 10 on the BS section of the MCAT, you'll be capable of handling all the biology classes at georgetown. i know people here who had taken nothing but the bare-minimum pre-reqs before coming to georgetown and they are doing just fine in the program. i'd agree with riceman that it might help you to try and take biochemistry, but it's not completely necessary. i think the biggest thing for people with little bio exposure to struggle to get used to in smp is the biology lingo. if you feel comfortable with being in biology classes, i don't think you have too much to worry about. it's mainly up to you and how much time you put into studying in the program. i think most people that they chose for the program are on close to equal levels of understanding and comprehension. best of luck.

 

[imrep1972]

i think that if you did reasonably well in your bio courses and scored a 10 on the BS section of the MCAT, you'll be capable of handling all the biology classes at georgetown. i know people here who had taken nothing but the bare-minimum pre-reqs before coming to georgetown and they are doing just fine in the program. i'd agree with riceman that it might help you to try and take biochemistry, but it's not completely necessary. i think the biggest thing for people with little bio exposure to struggle to get used to in smp is the biology lingo. if you feel comfortable with being in biology classes, i don't think you have too much to worry about. it's mainly up to you and how much time you put into studying in the program. i think most people that they chose for the program are on close to equal levels of understanding and comprehension. best of luck.

Also, these SMP courses are set up so you are, in many cases, taking classes with the first year med students at their respective schools.

So, it seems to me that if someone would have trouble with an SMP because they hadn't taken upper-div Bio, they would have just as much trouble (or more) in med school itself. Plenty of people go straight to med school only having taken the basic pre-reqs and do very well.

to the OP: The advisor didn't give you any reason at all for his/her warning?

 

[Phil Anthropist]

A number of the schools that rejected indicated that my GPA (a few 1/100s of a point below 3.5) could use smoe improvment. Therefore, a few weeks ago, I appilied to GTown's & BU's post-bacc programs.

Just for clarification, the SMP programs are graduate programs. Therefore, the grades you receive will not contribute to your undergrad GPA. Rather, the grades will appear in their own section (Graduate). The purpose of the SMP programs is to prove you're med school material. Some medical school admission committees will take note of this, others are more concerned with your undergraduate GPA (thanks in part to those fantastic US News Rankings 🙄 ). It varies from school to school. So SMP programs can help overcome a low-borderline undergraduate GPA, but these programs do not improve your undergrad GPA.

Then I got another rejection letter and more comments from another admissions dean. He strongly suggested that I take upper-division undergrad biology classes. When I told him about my application to the SMPs, he strongly advised against that.

My guess is that this particular medical school puts a lot of weight on your undergrad GPA.

Now, it is true that a do not have very many upper-division undergrad biology classes. However, I did complete all the traditional pre-reqs, did reasonably well in them, and got a 10 on the MCAT biology section. However, the sterness of his warning still haunts me.

Was this warning based on doubting your ability to handle the coursework? As others have mentioned, there are many medical students who take the bare minimum prereqs and excel in med school. So I'm not clear on whether his warning has to do with doubt of your ability or the undergrad/graduate GPA issue.

Also, even though 3.48 or so is below the matriculant average (3.6ish, I believe) it's not that bad. Many in the postbac forum have GPAs much lower than that. Is that the only thing the adcoms told you that you needed to improve?

 

[medstylee]

good point, imrep.

with that, to add to the encouragement, there are also medical students at gu who hadn't taken anything more than the basic pre-reqs and they are surviving as well (with a much huger courseload than the physios).

if the adcom member didn't provide you with any reasoning for his advice, i would just shrug it off. i interviewed at a few md schools last year and never mad it past waitlists. i was able to speak with the admissions directors or deans at each of the schools and every one of those people advised me STRONGLY to enroll in an smp. i suspect that this person advised you against an smp because he was afraid you wouldn't be able to handle the courseload. as i said before, i highly doubt that will be the case for you. in terms of how much an smp can help you, i don't think any admissions member would advise you against it. best of luck.

 

[PAPPAPPAP]

TNT, are you sure that the dean wasnt advising against the SMP just to save you time and money...He may think that you just need a couple of undergrad courses to get over the hump and not something as extreme as the SMP. Knowing your MCAT and undergrad university might be helpful..if you have an mcat over say..31, from a respectable university, you might just try reapplying with a few more courses and some other experiences to save yourself some money..it depends on how patient you are. But keep in mind that if you do well, a post-bacc greatly improves your chances.

 

[jackbnimble]

TNT, are you sure that the dean wasnt advising against the SMP just to save you time and money...He may think that you just need a couple of undergrad courses to get over the hump and not something as extreme as the SMP. Knowing your MCAT and undergrad university might be helpful..if you have an mcat over say..31, from a respectable university, you might just try reapplying with a few more courses and some other experiences to save yourself some money..it depends on how patient you are. But keep in mind that if you do well, a post-bacc greatly improves your chances.

I think PAPPAPPAPP may be right. Your credentials seem very borderline. Do you "just" take biochem, molecular bio, and a genetics class, make A's and get your undergrad GPA up to 3.52 or something like that? Less costly, less stressful, and less of a committment. Or do you take the cautious path and assume that your undergrad GPA is not going to keep you out of any med school and assuming your MCAT is around 30 that is not going to keep you out of med school. Taken together, they might...so a smp would greatly augment your background. Is it necessary? Probably not. Is it the cautious, conservative, and yes expensive way to enhance your chances of getting in med school? Probably.

Either approach and you can probably be a strong applicant next year.

jackb

 

[trinitrotoluene]

First, thank you for your feedback.

My vital stats from AMCAS 2005:
3.45 GPA, 3.45 SGPA
MCAT (Aug 2003): V:09 P:12 W:M B:10 O:31 (Aug 2003)
some shadowing experence--all surgery
some volunteer experence
no research experence
significant debate and political activism experence
app. submitted in mid-Aug; complete in mid-Oct (glitch in sending LORs)

Current results:
2 interivews
15 rejections (including the 2 interviewing schools)
5 schools outstanding with no interviews scheduled

I'm currently considering the following attack plan:
1) Either do an SMP or return to undergraduate school
2) Shadow more doctors esp. in primary care--that starts today.
3) Apply earlier.
4) Apply to DO schools. Only applied to MD schools this time.
4) Retake MCAT if needed. (I'll post about this situation later in another thread.)

Most of the schools I am focused on are themselves not focused on US Snooze ratings. They are mostly "lower-tier" private MD, DO, and in-state public schools. I wrote Harvard, WashU, Vandy, etc. off a long time ago.

As for the warning from the medical school dean, I think he is worried about my boilogy skills. Then again, this school plays up the importance of upper-division biology in its assmissions literature. It could just be something special to this school because no other school has talked about it. Also my official advisor is encouraging me to go to GTown (over BU).

Considering that there are over four months between now and start of the SMP classes, are there things I could study on my own that might make life easier for me at either GTown or BU? Physio? Biochem? Microbio? Histo?