Prerequisites: How old is "too old"?

[TXmd2be]

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I am about to begin my first semester of taking my prerequisites, so I thought this might be the right place to pose my question... "How old is 'too old' for a prerequisite?

Background - I earned my BS in Secondary Education with two teaching fields - biology and English in 1990. This means that my 6 hours in Bio and my 6 hours in Eng are approximately 20 years old. I have solid GPAs in both areas - Bio I/II, Genetics, A&P, Microbiology and 2 Bio Workshops - 28 hours with a 3.6 GPA and my English - 27 hours with a 3.5 GPA. It may be older coursework, but I taught both biology and English for the last 15 years.

I will still need to take Gen Chem I & II, Organic Chem I/II, Physics I/II, and Calculus as prerequisites. Should I retake the others? I have already taken both the verbal and biological sciences section of the MCAT and did fairly well with no studying on a practice exam. Will a high MCAT score in an area of an old prereq override the age of the prereq?

I have read around MomMD and SDN that the age of the prerequisites are not that important - it really depends on the school. I'm planning on contacting each of the schools that I want to apply to for more info on their policies regarding prerequisites.

So, what is more important - a good undergrad GPA (mine is 3.5 not including new prerequisites), a VERY good prerequisite GPA (shooting for a 3.8 - 4.0), or high MCAT scores? My question is, how old is "too old" and is there a "too old"?

Thanks!

 

[NTF]

I am about to begin my first semester of taking my prerequisites, so I thought this might be the right place to pose my question... "How old is 'too old' for a prerequisite?

Background - I earned my BS in Secondary Education with two teaching fields - biology and English in 1990. This means that my 6 hours in Bio and my 6 hours in Eng are approximately 20 years old. I have solid GPAs in both areas - Bio I/II, Genetics, A&P, Microbiology and 2 Bio Workshops - 28 hours with a 3.6 GPA and my English - 27 hours with a 3.5 GPA. It may be older coursework, but I taught both biology and English for the last 15 years.

I will still need to take Gen Chem I & II, Organic Chem I/II, Physics I/II, and Calculus as prerequisites. Should I retake the others? I have already taken both the verbal and biological sciences section of the MCAT and did fairly well with no studying on a practice exam. Will a high MCAT score in an area of an old prereq override the age of the prereq?

I have read around MomMD and SDN that the age of the prerequisites are not that important - it really depends on the school. I'm planning on contacting each of the schools that I want to apply to for more info on their policies regarding prerequisites.

So, what is more important - a good undergrad GPA (mine is 3.5 not including new prerequisites), a VERY good prerequisite GPA (shooting for a 3.8 - 4.0), or high MCAT scores? My question is, how old is "too old" and is there a "too old"?

Thanks!

First of all, prereqs don't "expire", but my pre-medical advisor says that all medical schools want to see you excel in recent coursework (ie within the last 2-3 years) just to reassure them that you still have your academic chops intact. Since you have some prereqs to take yet that solves that problem as long as you do well.

As far as relative importance, that's splitting hairs. Obviously the GPA of your recent coursework will matter more than your earlier work. The MCAT will matter probably more than your GPA, I guess you won't have a lot of recent credits. But you attitude should really be that it's all important. Give yourself the best chance you can by acing your remaining prereq and doing very well on the MCAT.

But I guess the reason prereqs don't "expire" is cuz the MCAT is there to test whether that knowledge has expired in your brain.

 

[DrMidlife]

First of all, prereqs don't "expire

Actually, yes they do, at some schools. UMass is one example, and I've seen maybe half a dozen that call it at 6 years or less.

OP, your best defense against stealthy prereq expiration is fresh upper div coursework, such as biochem or genetics or microbio or immuno, enough to demonstrate that your brains didn't turn to goo. Plus a great MCAT of course.

I took physics in 1988-89. Wasn't questioned by anybody when I applied last year. Got a 10 on PS out of my fanny.

 

[NTF]

Actually, yes they do, at some schools. UMass is one example, and I've seen maybe half a dozen that call it at 6 years or less.

OP, your best defense against stealthy prereq expiration is fresh upper div coursework, such as biochem or genetics or microbio or immuno, enough to demonstrate that your brains didn't turn to goo. Plus a great MCAT of course.

I took physics in 1988-89. Wasn't questioned by anybody when I applied last year. Got a 10 on PS out of my fanny.

Sorry about the incorrect info about prereq's not expiring. Thanks for the heads up Midlife.

 

[Law2Doc]

Actually, yes they do, at some schools. UMass is one example, and I've seen maybe half a dozen that call it at 6 years or less.

Agree -- there are a small number of schools that require retakes if it is older than 6 or 7 years old. I was actually told by my advisor to retake anything older than 5 years old. Because even those schools without firm "expiration dates" want to see "recent" success in these courses. So yeah, you're gonna have to retake the 20 year old stuff for sure. It won't be wasted effort because it's going to be on the MCAT anyhow.

 

[Law2Doc]

So, what is more important - a good undergrad GPA (mine is 3.5 not including new prerequisites), a VERY good prerequisite GPA (shooting for a 3.8 - 4.0), or high MCAT scores? My question is, how old is "too old" and is there a "too old"?

There is no "more important". It's all important. Schools don't take people exclusively by the numbers and they expect people to have performed well in multiple areas. You hurt your chances if you look at it as a sliding scale (high MCAT vs low GPA). You need to be top notch in everything because you'd better believe that a big percentage of the 10,000 applications most schools get will be.

 

[chr123]

I don't quite buy the whole taking pre-reqs again if they are more than 5 years old. I took gen chem my freshman year in 2000. I graduated in 2005. So your telling me I should have retaken general chemistry even if I applied right out of college?

I really don't see you having to retake your english and biology classes again, especially since you were a biology teacher. I'm assuming your biology is for science majors. Ask the admissions offices of where you want to apply.

 

[Nasem]

if you were applying to dental schools, then yes... many of them do have an expiration period for the pre-reqs (alot are 5 to 7 years from the time you start dental school)

But with medical schools its a little different (there are 150 medical schools in the states so I am sure SOME of them will have the expiration period), however, most of them don't care, instead they have an expiration period on your MCAT score (2-4 years is the average for most med schools)… Which makes sense, the MCAT is the bread & butter of how much material from the sciences you still remember….

 

[NTF]

I think it's asinine that some schools have prereq expirations.

 

[gman33]

So, what is more important - a good undergrad GPA (mine is 3.5 not including new prerequisites), a VERY good prerequisite GPA (shooting for a 3.8 - 4.0), or high MCAT scores? My question is, how old is "too old" and is there a "too old"?

Thanks!

BTW - 3.5 is not a "good undergrad GPA". While it's not bad, it is below average for accepted students.

I'd retake BIO 1/2 as well. It will help for the MCAT as well as leave open more doors. If you don't plan on retaking, call every school before you apply.

A slightly funny school about old prereqs. The last bio class I took before post-bacc was AP BIO in high school, 1989. During my BIO class in the post-bacc the teacher was discussing the history of PCR. She mentioned the Nobel Prize and how we should have learned about this in high school.
The Nobel Prize for PCR was awarded in 1993. Boy did that make me feel old. I guess that's one reason why schools may have expiring pre-reqs. Half the stuff you learned 20 years ago is probably considered BS now. 😱

 

[thoffen]

I think it's asinine that some schools have prereq expirations.

Especially considering the MCAT can prove proficiency in the subjects.

Regardless, it's probably best to re-take them all even if the schools you're applying to do not expire pre-reqs.

 

[njbmd]

I am about to begin my first semester of taking my prerequisites, so I thought this might be the right place to pose my question... "How old is 'too old' for a prerequisite?

So, what is more important - a good undergrad GPA (mine is 3.5 not including new prerequisites), a VERY good prerequisite GPA (shooting for a 3.8 - 4.0), or high MCAT scores? My question is, how old is "too old" and is there a "too old"?

Thanks!

Medical school isn't a matter of one thing being more important than another thing but presenting a complete competitive package in terms of academics. This includes a strong uGPA and strong performance on the MCAT without multiple retakes.

In terms of age of prerequisites, this is school dependent. You should contact the medical schools that interest you and know their policy. Some don't care if you have recent coursework but some are very specific about the age of prerequisite coursework. Find out specifically what you need and go from there.

 

[2008orbust]

My prereqs were at least a dozen years old. The real problem was not the age of the classes, but taking the MCAT with knowledge of classes I took a dozen years ago. Tricky.

Some schools do mind, as Midlife said. The one school I applied to, didn't seem to care. You do need to know the schools you apply to.

Good luck to you.

 

[NTF]

What I find odd about a prereq expiration RULE rather than guideline and recommendation is the weird scenarios it presents.

Suppose a school has an 8 year expiration for prereqs. Imagine someone who got there ugrad degree at 22. PHD in biochemistry at 28. And then worked as an accomplished researcher for 5-10 years, and decides he/she wants to be a doctor. Said candidate gets a 40 on the MCAT. Now since this person hasn't taken prereqs since ugrad, will the school seriously make this person retake introductory classes?

It just seems like a silly rule to ward away non-trads.

 

[QofQuimica]

What I find odd about a prereq expiration RULE rather than guideline and recommendation is the weird scenarios it presents.

Suppose a school has an 8 year expiration for prereqs. Imagine someone who got there ugrad degree at 22. PHD in biochemistry at 28. And then worked as an accomplished researcher for 5-10 years, and decides he/she wants to be a doctor. Said candidate gets a 40 on the MCAT. Now since this person hasn't taken prereqs since ugrad, will the school seriously make this person retake introductory classes?

It just seems like a silly rule to ward away non-trads.

In the scenario you laid out, it would be a good idea for such a candidate to retake some coursework simply due to being out of the classroom for so long. But no, this pre-req age "rule" is not hard and fast. You are always free at any time to request an exemption from the schools if you feel that you can demonstrate academic excellence in other ways. In my case, I graduated college at 21, got my PhD in organic chemistry at 30, and scored a 43 on the MCAT. Some of my pre-med coursework was over a decade old at the time that I applied. However, every school that I contacted (two dozen of them) was willing to waive the pre-req age requirements based upon my having taken grad level science work within five years of applying to med school and scoring very well on the MCAT. This was true even though I had no grades, GPA, or credit hours from my degree-granting UG institution. (I did send copies of my narrative evals for the premed coursework to every single school.) I don't know how easy getting that exemption would be for someone who got a non-science PhD, or for someone who had been out of an academic environment for as long as you've described. But for me to go directly from a science PhD-to-MD, it wasn't a problem. I never really thought about it before, but I suppose I'm fortunate that I took time off to work *before* getting my PhD rather than after. 🙂

 

[bottles999]

I am about to begin my first semester of taking my prerequisites, so I thought this might be the right place to pose my question... "How old is 'too old' for a prerequisite?

Background - I earned my BS in Secondary Education with two teaching fields - biology and English in 1990. This means that my 6 hours in Bio and my 6 hours in Eng are approximately 20 years old. I have solid GPAs in both areas - Bio I/II, Genetics, A&P, Microbiology and 2 Bio Workshops - 28 hours with a 3.6 GPA and my English - 27 hours with a 3.5 GPA. It may be older coursework, but I taught both biology and English for the last 15 years.

I will still need to take Gen Chem I & II, Organic Chem I/II, Physics I/II, and Calculus as prerequisites. Should I retake the others? I have already taken both the verbal and biological sciences section of the MCAT and did fairly well with no studying on a practice exam. Will a high MCAT score in an area of an old prereq override the age of the prereq?

I have read around MomMD and SDN that the age of the prerequisites are not that important - it really depends on the school. I'm planning on contacting each of the schools that I want to apply to for more info on their policies regarding prerequisites.

So, what is more important - a good undergrad GPA (mine is 3.5 not including new prerequisites), a VERY good prerequisite GPA (shooting for a 3.8 - 4.0), or high MCAT scores? My question is, how old is "too old" and is there a "too old"?

Thanks!

I'm gonna go back to the original post to answer this... Seems the discussion here got a lil off track over pre-reqs senesing and no longer being valid.

I am now a 2nd year MD-PhD student that is probably your age if you graduated in '90. So its definitly possible. Having said that I am certainly the oldest in my class, which has its own challenges associated with that.

3.5 is solid as your undergrad GPA, mine was even a bit lower than that for my original undergrad. That was offset by my most recent course work as post-bacc to get the pre-reques as well as just taking additional course work provided I had the time prior to the start of the program. As I looked at it, the more credit hours I accumulated and the grades were posted I kept distancing myself from my previous college experience. It seemed a number of schools also viewed it that way too.

Your going to want to target 3.7 and up for this 'NEW' course work. The more credit hours to substantiate the higher GPA the better. In addition, MCAT scores will be critical - target 30 and above for entire test.

As for schools, there will be some school that are age biases and like traditionals over non-traditionals. However, with determination and clear INTENT that this is what you REALLY want to do, something add to your personal statement, its more than possible.

Good Luck
Bottles999

 

[TXmd2be]

Thanks, Bottles999 - Your advice (coming from one who has been there) was the one I took to heart.

I have also sent emails to each one of the universities that I am considering. I still have another year and a half to complete the prereqs, so with good advice, I hope to make the best choices.

And yes, I believe a 3.5 is a "good" undergrad GPA - not "outstanding" but a solid "good". That was damn "good" for someone who was 19, working 35 hours a week, taking 15-18 hours, and raising a 1 year old!! 😀

 

[doctorold]

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