Pretty sure I'm about to fail scribe training and be let go...what now?

[Gurame1121]

Hey everyone,

I have a feeling I'm going to get an email soon from the scribe company I work for informing me that I didn't make the cut in training. I've had several training shifts to date, and while I've proven to be medically knowledgeable (well, as medically knowledgeable as a scribe can be), I haven't displayed enough proficiency at typing and taking dictations from the doctors. I'm taking heart in knowing that I was well liked by my trainers personality wise, and that this is more or less coming down to factors that go beyond medical ability, but I still feel pretty crappy about the opportunity I'm missing out on. It's irrational, but I'm falling into the "well, if I can't do this, what hope is there for medical school?" mind trap.

But anyways, now that I'm about to start looking for a job again, I was wondering what kinds of positions I should look for. Scribing was an awesome option because even though the pay was terrible, it let me work directly with doctors, learn about the way they make decisions, and potentially build relationships that could lead to some great LORs. From what I understand, there aren't many other jobs that can give you this kind of hospital experience without special certification. I've heard transporting is a good way to interact with patients, but that it doesn't allow you the opportunity to learn very much or meet doctors. If that's the case, would it be better to work a better paying job and just shadow and volunteer when/wherever I can? Prior to getting in the pre-med game I did a lot of marketing work and frankly, I don't want to get back into that even if it's just to put food on my table.

Thanks!

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[runnergal]

I thought I was going to fail too because I was initially doing terrible in the classroom training portion of it.... didn't really study like I should ... but I had taken a med term course in undergrad which helped me ALOT. Knowing a bit of spanish (latin-origin) words helped and I made it to clinical training. In clinical training, I essentially had THE WORST project manager ever, she was a b****. I walked in the ED for my first training session, didn't get to log in or anything, she made me go in the room and watch an I&D on a labia! TALK ABOUT FIRST PATIENT EXPERIENCE EVER. I stood there and took it like a champ....


the following 4-5 days were hell with her but I managed to successfully get by on the 4th to 5th day.... the key to being a good medical scribe is anticipating what the doctor is going to say.

I would write my HPI first, type everything out that the patient says (and what you believe would be relevant to an HPI and the patient's chief complaint from the class training you received), and then MOVE ON ASAP to go to the physical exam when the doctor starts. The tricky part is some physicians ask a REAL review of systems, other's don't. Figure out what kind of doctor you are working with - if one who does HPI and moves to physical exam while asking some ROS questions while doing the PE, then document your PE, and you can always go to ROS later bc those are quick yes/no questions.
(ALSO, do not get caught up in the small talk that is not relevant for the medical chart. If the patient starts talking about the neighbor down the street that moved in, this will save you so much time bc you get to catch up on your documentation while at the bedside)

I barely made it but I was probably one of the BEST scribes to work with the program - and had Stanford and Harvard trained docs asking me why I wasn't in medical school. Too bad being an excellent scribe doesn't get you automatic admission. but the experience was great - I've caught negative CXR reads that were in fact pneumos, I've caught docs order the wrong prescriptions, not order certain tests they should have in a certain amt of time, not order blood cx on febrile sz patients, so it's all a good time and great learning experience. Use the method in the paragraph above and you should do well.

Beg for another day of clinical training if you are up to really passing.

 

[runnergal]

Hey everyone,

I have a feeling I'm going to get an email soon from the scribe company I work for informing me that I didn't make the cut in training. I've had several training shifts to date, and while I've proven to be medically knowledgeable (well, as medically knowledgeable as a scribe can be), I haven't displayed enough proficiency at typing and taking dictations from the doctors. I'm taking heart in knowing that I was well liked by my trainers personality wise, and that this is more or less coming down to factors that go beyond medical ability, but I still feel pretty crappy about the opportunity I'm missing out on. It's irrational, but I'm falling into the "well, if I can't do this, what hope is there for medical school?" mind trap.

But anyways, now that I'm about to start looking for a job again, I was wondering what kinds of positions I should look for. Scribing was an awesome option because even though the pay was terrible, it let me work directly with doctors, learn about the way they make decisions, and potentially build relationships that could lead to some great LORs. From what I understand, there aren't many other jobs that can give you this kind of hospital experience without special certification. I've heard transporting is a good way to interact with patients, but that it doesn't allow you the opportunity to learn very much or meet doctors. If that's the case, would it be better to work a better paying job and just shadow and volunteer when/wherever I can? Prior to getting in the pre-med game I did a lot of marketing work and frankly, I don't want to get back into that even if it's just to put food on my table.

Thanks!

I suggest also going on youtube and listening to patient encounters while typing an HPI in word, and then typing a physical exam in word. This helped me tremendously as well.

if you don't pass, there is clinical research roles with academic institutions - some of the docs you work with on their studies may let you shadow them.

For me, I volunteered first in like clinical epi in a hospital, and from there all of my clinical experiences have come because of the position I had before it. Sometimes, you just have to start small and work your way up.

 

[justin1390]

+1 on what runnergal said. If you don't make the cut, I'd take a serious look at clinical research opportunities as, from what I gather, they are looked more favorably on. That said, I wouldn't get too discouraged yet. 🙂 Good luck!

 

[NonTradJp]

Scribing is really a great opportunity if you get a good doctor to work with. However, many many people never scribed. On top of that, volunteering and shadowing can be really great if you take the initiative for it. So what I'm saying is don't lose hope if you cannot scribe. Just make sure to get the clinical experiences to enrich yourself and be able to talk about it in casual conversations.

 

[ThaDude]

First, scribing comes with a steep learning curve. Above all, you have to just learn what the physicians want you to do as well as what they don't want you to do. That to me has been the most frustrating part of my experience thus far. Some are approachable and don't mind you asking them any question outside of the room and will have conversations with you. Others not so much. Some, one in particular physician comes to mind, do an excellent exam and call it out while in the room. Thus, allowing you to efficiently document the HPI and a majority of the exam in the room, and if necessarly, complete a little on the outside. Others, again, one particular physician comes to mind, calls nothing out in the room and wants to spout it all off over 10 seconds outside the room. What's the point of being in the room to chart if the exam isn't going to be called out IN THE ROOM? Anyway...I've been worried a few times if I would last. Sometimes I still do because I'm not as essential as I was when I was a tech and certainly am limited in my capacity to assist the physicians as the NPs can with screening, documentation and ordering. I realized that I've been with my hospital for almost 8 years and have a good rapport with many people. If I lost my job, well, so be it. I will find another, and that won't equate in any way to whether or not I will gain acceptance into medical school much less be a successful physician some day. I think you'll do fine. Do as the above posters say...look up HPIs and practice typing them out. Realize to that not all physicians will be very detailed in their exam. Some do focused assessments. Get through the training and you'll be on your way to learning about medicine from a whole new perspective. Good luck!

 

[runnergal]

First, scribing comes with a steep learning curve. Above all, you have to just learn what the physicians want you to do as well as what they don't want you to do. That to me has been the most frustrating part of my experience thus far. Some are approachable and don't mind you asking them any question outside of the room and will have conversations with you. Others not so much. Some, one in particular physician comes to mind, do an excellent exam and call it out while in the room. Thus, allowing you to efficiently document the HPI and a majority of the exam in the room, and if necessarly, complete a little on the outside. Others, again, one particular physician comes to mind, calls nothing out in the room and wants to spout it all off over 10 seconds outside the room. What's the point of being in the room to chart if the exam isn't going to be called out IN THE ROOM? Anyway...I've been worried a few times if I would last. Sometimes I still do because I'm not as essential as I was when I was a tech and certainly am limited in my capacity to assist the physicians as the NPs can with screening, documentation and ordering. I realized that I've been with my hospital for almost 8 years and have a good rapport with many people. If I lost my job, well, so be it. I will find another, and that won't equate in any way to whether or not I will gain acceptance into medical school much less be a successful physician some day. I think you'll do fine. Do as the above posters say...look up HPIs and practice typing them out. Realize to that not all physicians will be very detailed in their exam. Some do focused assessments. Get through the training and you'll be on your way to learning about medicine from a whole new perspective. Good luck!

Very very true!
I learned over my scribing years not to take it personal - those docs are either 1) afraid to say things in the room bc they don't want the pt to hear not realizing there is nothing wrong with the patient hearing or 2) don't realize how much EASIER their job would be if they remembered or tried to say the exam at bedside.

Some physicians you can keep reminding them and they don't mind the reminder bc they are just not conditioned to say exams as they do it bc never had scribes before - but try encouraging them to do it and see what they say. Remind them that you BOTH can move so much quicker, be more efficient, and see more patients.
The key is to never take it personal.

Also - sometimes I will type out the + findings on physical exam bc those are the EASIEST to forget and hard to remember word-for-word. So I will type it in a blank box or write it in abbreviated format on paper and then move the + findings to where they should go in the chart. And then I would document the normal/benign findings afterwards bc I can easily remember what systems/etc that the physician examined.

 

[crazy87]

Hey everyone,

I have a feeling I'm going to get an email soon from the scribe company I work for informing me that I didn't make the cut in training. I've had several training shifts to date, and while I've proven to be medically knowledgeable (well, as medically knowledgeable as a scribe can be), I haven't displayed enough proficiency at typing and taking dictations from the doctors. I'm taking heart in knowing that I was well liked by my trainers personality wise, and that this is more or less coming down to factors that go beyond medical ability, but I still feel pretty crappy about the opportunity I'm missing out on. It's irrational, but I'm falling into the "well, if I can't do this, what hope is there for medical school?" mind trap.

But anyways, now that I'm about to start looking for a job again, I was wondering what kinds of positions I should look for. Scribing was an awesome option because even though the pay was terrible, it let me work directly with doctors, learn about the way they make decisions, and potentially build relationships that could lead to some great LORs. From what I understand, there aren't many other jobs that can give you this kind of hospital experience without special certification. I've heard transporting is a good way to interact with patients, but that it doesn't allow you the opportunity to learn very much or meet doctors. If that's the case, would it be better to work a better paying job and just shadow and volunteer when/wherever I can? Prior to getting in the pre-med game I did a lot of marketing work and frankly, I don't want to get back into that even if it's just to put food on my table.

Thanks!

Any chance you could work in a medical office as a receptionist or medical assistant? In my state you don't HAVE to have medical assistant training if it's a private office. Some train on the job. Anyway one of those jobs to get those doc LORs... And experience.

 

[Gurame1121]

Thanks for your responses everyone! I guess I'm just now at this point where I'm wondering if scribing is going to be a good job to have while I take on this relatively compact informal post-bacc I'm about to do. My application will be nothing if my grades aren't awesome or if I'm not ready for the MCAT, regardless of how rich my clinical experience was. Also, I know it'll be great to get LORs from the doctors I work with, but don't most of my LORs need to come from my science teachers? Scribing is an undeniably great experience, but it is notably a stressful one with all the hectic hours, low pay, and bureaucracy you have to deal with. One scribe mentioned that most scribes are not active students but grads in their gap years waiting for the next app cycle.

I think I might be better off getting some kind of low stress job for money so I can afford to be highly stressed about my classes and the MCAT (lol). Two doctors basically gave me open door privileges in their office so that I can shadow essentially any time I want. While I've actually got a lot of volunteer experience, I don't really have any research experience, so maybe this could be a good time to look into that?

 

[runnergal]

My only comments given what you mentioned:

LORs are two faculty, plus one additional in most medical schools. Some may accept a 4th. Please double check me on this. If the school writes you a committee letter, they collect those letters from you as well to form a committee letter, so therefore your committee may accept 4, 5, etc ..... Double check with your program director

Regarding scribe: it wasn't a stressful job if you are just scribe and not a scribe manager. You get scheduled for your 2-3 shifts per week and don't have to take any of the work home other than the occasional brushing up of material that doctor quoted to you during exam and you forgot what it was. Also, there is bureaucracy everywhere - get used to that one in medicine. In fact, better get used to it now. Also, medical school and residency will be "stressful" for most. The blessed aren't feeling "stressful", atleast not like those crazy over-the-top stories you hear. That's some of the benefits of being a non traditional or post-Bacc student .... You have life experiences that put "medical school struggle" in check.....
So in summary about scribe: don't say that you're not going to do it to focus on grades and MCAT, but then say you're going to do research. Research will take also 15-20 hours per week atleast.

As for shadowing: this is great. Obviously if you need to build up those hours. Then again, 4-6 hours/month of shadowing, you better make sure you find someone who will show you and talk to you about medicine so you have something to show and explain from the experience. Everyone shadows - what will be different about you?


So in summary, LORs mostly from faculty. 1 maybe from physician/etc. Decide do you want to work or don't want to work. If you work, scribe will take the same amount of hours per week as a part time scribe as much as you will work in a paying job elsewhere. Depending upon where you live and what type of hospital/clinic you scribe, this is invaluable experience if you play in correctly, and hype up the experience in your medical school application as not just a medical learning experience but also as psychosocial. Pay very important attention to the words that come out of the patients mouths about what ultimately led them to get sick from a socioeconomic standpoint, or why they couldn't seek treatment before, or why a mistake was made in their healthcare etc, and then you will have good things to talk about in your application/interviews. Anyway, so approx 15-20hours per week of work while as a scribe. Decide if this clinical experience is worth it for you right now and you are a strong enough student to do both.
If you cannot, doing research is also an approx 15-20hr per week minimum in paid positions for students and you wouldn't be able to do research right now while studying either. At that point, wait until winter breaks and summer terms to put in decenttttttt hours. Many post Bacc kids put in 6-10 hours per week atleast elsewhere doing something meaningful for application.


Also - maybe you can find the medical receptionist positions. Outpatient offices.... I see those posted on Craigslist sometimes.
Usually you will see posts looking for someone to work 10 hours per week to fill in shifts, two 5 hours shifts per week. Look into that. It was great recommendation from the above poster.

 

[runnergal]

Whoever said that scribes are students in glide years, I don't know how much of that is true. I've probably interviewed 225-250 pre health students, trained/partially trained near 100 or so. Most of them were undergraduate students. I would say 20-30% were out of undergraduate school, slim amount in post baccs. This could depend on the type of areas I worked in, but again I worked across the country. If undergrads can take 3 courses and scribe, no overarching reason why you couldn't. Again you would have to evaluate your academic skills.
Don't let people chase you off with poor or misleading information