Private medical and forensic autopsy services

[Smoothbrain]

Hi there

I was looking through jobs on Pathology Outlines and I saw a couple of ads for private autopsy services in Florida, New York etc. I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience with working with these private companies and if you have experience running one yourself?

Have a super nice day
Roughbrain

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[dr4n6]

I am an FP and have some experiences with these sort of companies. What do you want to know?

 

[deleted314957]

I am an FP ( did only 2 yrs military and 2 years civ) and know some folks who have done that.
First- CASH MONEY UP FRONT
Second- an atty for the family is often requesting these. If that is the case, charge MORE because it comes out of the attys pocket.



I cannot stress the cash up front too much. Particularly from a lawyer.

 

[Smoothbrain]

I was wondering if you could share your experiences. Did this form of work have a nice work life balance? Did you enjoy it? What is the job market like? Is the salary worth it? Have you tried running your own private autopsy service?

Thank you for sharing your real life experiences mike. Did you encounter issues with families or attorneys not paying?

 

[deleted314957]

I was wondering if you could share your experiences. Did this form of work have a nice work life balance? Did you enjoy it? What is the job market like? Is the salary worth it? Have you tried running your own private autopsy service?

Thank you for sharing your real life experiences mike. Did you encounter issues with families or attorneys not paying?

dr4n6 is probably in a better position to answer your questions. I did forensics in my last 2 years of navy ( taught residents) and my 1st job in PP included being an associate med examiner in a florida ME district for2 years.The forensics in my last two years was also part time as a sub contractor. I was mostly hospital then and 100%
hospital ever after. (sounds like I should kiss a frog). I never did any “ private forensics” per-se but i’ve done a decent amount of expert testimony and i could write a book about that. Laws differ for ME’s in different places. in fl i was able to bill for my professional time. the defense lawyers WILL try to stiff you. So, you need ground rules like $500/hr prep, waiting, travel, etc with a $1500 min up front. Expenses( if any).
As concerns the hospital——NO family requested (i.e.”free”)
autopsies. At the specific request of the medical staff, i would do a question oriented exam to the extent I thought was necessary. (eg. hunk of liver or lung. Rip out a kidney, etc.

 

[dr4n6]

I was wondering if you could share your experiences. Did this form of work have a nice work life balance? Did you enjoy it? What is the job market like? Is the salary worth it? Have you tried running your own private autopsy service?

Thank you for sharing your real life experiences mike. Did you encounter issues with families or attorneys not paying?

I assume that your questions refer to private autopsy services that hire per diem pathologists to do private cases requested by family members. Essentially these services are contacted to do a case by a family member when they are unable to have a hospital take on the case and the local ME has declined the case. If the family is willing to pay for a private autopsy, chances are high that they have litigation in mind and you have a high likelihood of being sucked into their litigation. Rarely is a family member willing to pay the high fees for a private autopsy just because they have a curiosity to know what a loved one died. Bottom line is you better be very comfortable dealing with lawyers and all of the baggage that comes with litigation, as Mike Sheree has alluded to. Getting paid by lawyers is often problematic as well. Not infrequently I have to send out 2-3 invoices and wait upwards of 4 months to get paid. I only get paid on the first invoice when a deposition is upcoming and they are forced to settle the bill if they want me to proceed with the deposition, so yes it is frustrating.

As to work/life balance, I have been doing both SP and forensics for close to 25 years and only know a very small handful of FPs that do private cases on a full time basis, and they almost all exclusively involve litigation and these docs are not well respected in the FP community. I personally would not want to be at the mercy of lawyers over the extent of my career by just doing private cases. Most of my FP colleagues only take on a handful of private cases outside of their normal FP workload.

 

[deleted314957]

I assume that your questions refer to private autopsy services that hire per diem pathologists to do private cases requested by family members. Essentially these services are contacted to do a case by a family member when they are unable to have a hospital take on the case and the local ME has declined the case. If the family is willing to pay for a private autopsy, chances are high that they have litigation in mind and you have a high likelihood of being sucked into their litigation. Rarely is a family member willing to pay the high fees for a private autopsy just because they have a curiosity to know what a loved one died. Bottom line is you better be very comfortable dealing with lawyers and all of the baggage that comes with litigation, as Mike Sheree has alluded to. Getting paid by lawyers is often problematic as well. Not infrequently I have to send out 2-3 invoices and wait upwards of 4 months to get paid. I only get paid on the first invoice when a deposition is upcoming and they are forced to settle the bill if they want me to proceed with the deposition, so yes it is frustrating.

As to work/life balance, I have been doing both SP and forensics for close to 25 years and only know a very small handful of FPs that do private cases on a full time basis, and they almost all exclusively involve litigation and these docs are not well respected in the FP community. I personally would not want to be at the mercy of lawyers over the extent of my career by just doing private cases. Most of my FP colleagues only take on a handful of private cases outside of their normal FP workload.

It is amazing what FP’s have in common experience wise. I think I could have written that. I’m sure you know this now but the judge on a case can be very, very helpful toward you collecting your fee from deadbeat defense lawyers.

 

[Smoothbrain]

Thank dr4n6 and mikesheree you so much for sharing your experiences.

Drawing upon the experience, good decisions and mistakes made by senior pathologists is invaluable for a neophyte like myself trying to wiggle around in this difficult job market.

I noticed after a series of very interesting autopsy cases, that I actually enjoy this type work. I also enjoy when I find the answer to the question and being able to bring closure to the relatives of the deceased. I was thinking about these private autopsy services because maybe if I did a FP fellowship I could lease out my services to local hospitals, the patients families and funeral homes as there seems to be very little interest in autopsy pathology in general (am I wrong on that one?).

I also feel rather optimistic about the FP and autopsy pathology job market and I see a lot of very good job listings with fair pay and work conditions (no fake partnership tracks, minimal wage or slavery etc).

 

[dr4n6]

The job market for forensics currently is as good as I have seen it since I have been doing forensics, which is a bit over 25 years. You are correct about the stability of the job market for FP vs. doing private practice surgical pathology. As someone who has done both, FP and SP, I will straight up tell you that while the salaries for FP have improved over the last half dozen years, they are still probably on average about 60% of what you would make it a comparable level compared to doing SP, and I suspect that will not change. I think about 50% of the FPs I know that did a full FP fellowship no longer do FP as they just got burned out on the work. Again, I would advise that you be rather comfortable with litigation and dealing with both civil and criminal lawyers if you intend to pursue FP.

 

[deleted314957]

Thank dr4n6 and mikesheree you so much for sharing your experiences.

Drawing upon the experience, good decisions and mistakes made by senior pathologists is invaluable for a neophyte like myself trying to wiggle around in this difficult job market.

I noticed after a series of very interesting autopsy cases, that I actually enjoy this type work. I also enjoy when I find the answer to the question and being able to bring closure to the relatives of the deceased. I was thinking about these private autopsy services because maybe if I did a FP fellowship I could lease out my services to local hospitals, the patients families and funeral homes as there seems to be very little interest in autopsy pathology in general (am I wrong on that one?).

I also feel rather optimistic about the FP and autopsy pathology job market and I see a lot of very good job listings with fair pay and work conditions (no fake partnership tracks, minimal wage or slavery etc).

With FP boards, you could definitely have these as viable options. Find a few big, non academic hospitals and offer to contract your services is definitely doable as well as the
“ private” autopsy gig. You would make a good living and be your own boss.

 

[fecalith]

I like this tread. Thank you OP for creating it and thank you to the contributors. I am planning on a FP fellowship and combined with SP sign out career myself.
All your information is very valuable.

 

[HmanPath]

Another option in FP is doing LT. Our office currently pays 1000$ per non criminal autopsy. There are other such gigs out there.

 

[deleted314957]

Another option in FP is doing LT. Our office currently pays 1000$ per non criminal autopsy. There are other such gigs out there.

Wow! 1K for a post is dirt cheap. Unless you are The M.E. you are not going to be doing crime related autopsies unless it is one of these asinine “second autopsies” you hear about. You know, that is the one where the family has hired an atty. and they get some marginally employable pathologist who does nothing but “second” autopsies. For some reason, he can’t find the saddle embolus which caused the sudden tragic death of a 25 y.o. post partum lady at your hospital because you have already done a full “ first” autopsy and it ain’t there anymore. He ‘s just gonna have my section and will call it post mortem “ chicken fat”.
God i’m glad i’m retired.

In the private case by case autopsy ( almost universally requested by an atty ) charge $3500+ .If it is family curiosity, they will give up on that idea 99% of the time. Get the money UPFRONT.
Your contracts with hospitals probably won’t get you that much per post. It helps tremendously to have a good diener.
When negotiating with hospitals, try to always include the risk management and QA people because they tend to love autopsies. My hospital was impressed as hell that I was FP boarded even though i rarely did posts. It is just that they were thrilled when the tragic natural case would show up and the lawsuits predictably started and there would be some “second” autopsy by some marginal hired gun who did not stand a chance in a credibility fight vs me.

You can fill that role and get good money with FP boards.