$$$ Private Practice Earnings $$$

[NYSLicense]

Everyone knows that FP's make less than most other MD's. I think the national average BEFORE taxes is somewhere near 130-160K/year.

My quesiton is for any practicing FP's or any other individuals who would have knowlege of the following question.

What kind of earning potential exists for an FP opening up there own private practice, with FP's and PA's salaried?

Sorry for such a shallow post, I know that I will inevitably get the repsonse that says...."if you are basing your career on money you are an idiot" or the ever popular...... "why dont you find out what you are passionate about and stop wasting your time on money matters" All the perfect people please try to control your selves.

So does anyone know of any FP's that own their own practice and are they earning good coin?

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[sophiejane]

I would think that would depend on how successful your practice is and if you are in an area experiencing a lot of growth.

My cousin opened a practice with one other FP 3 years ago in a fast growing suburb of Dallas and they are going to opening a satellite clinic and hiring 2 new docs this year. I don't know what he earns but his house is amazing, and huge.

Supply vs demand. It's not rocket science.

 

[deleted87716]

A medical practice is a business. Some doctors are good businesspeople, but most are not. Most doctors derive nearly all of their income from the practice of medicine. That's not how you get rich. Most wealthy people, doctors or not, do not simply earn large incomes...they invest well. Any doctor can become wealthy if they know how to run their business, and invest wisely.

Recommended reading: "The Millionaire Next Door"

 

[F@milyMed]

I like that story about the Dallas FM!

I guess it is the sort of question without an answer but its nice to hear stories of FM docs and their toys.

 

[dksamp]

LAWD HAMMERCH!! Does anyone READ THE FAQ ?? If you read the faq, I posted the NUMEROUS factors that determine income. You posted a question that is IMPOSSBLE to give an accurate answer to because there are a ZILLION variables that exist that determine potential income.

I knew an FP that pulled more than a HALF A MILLION A YEAR. I knew one who went bankrupt, and everything in between, so how do you expect a question like that to be accurately answered. Anybody can spit out a figure, but that DOESN"T reflect what YOU PERSONALLY will take in. PLEASE read the faq.

-Derek

Everyone knows that FP's make less than most other MD's. I think the national average BEFORE taxes is somewhere near 130-160K/year.

My quesiton is for any practicing FP's or any other individuals who would have knowlege of the following question.

What kind of earning potential exists for an FP opening up there own private practice, with FP's and PA's salaried?

Sorry for such a shallow post, I know that I will inevitably get the repsonse that says...."if you are basing your career on money you are an idiot" or the ever popular...... "why dont you find out what you are passionate about and stop wasting your time on money matters" All the perfect people please try to control your selves.

So does anyone know of any FP's that own their own practice and are they earning good coin?

 

[deleted87716]

Here's a post that I just made in another thread that relates to this one.

It's certainly possible for a primary care provider (FM or general IM) to earn >$500K per year, but it's not the norm, as you well know. The average income for family physicians in the U.S. is in the $160K range, according to data from the MGMA.* Of course, that's the average, and there are people making far less as well as far more than that.

It would be challenging to earn $500K after expenses from simply billing typical primary care E&M codes. You'd have to see a ton of patients, either very quickly, or by having long office hours (including nights, weekends, etc.) If one had access to a revenue stream from ancillary services (e.g., diagnostic laboratory, imaging center, etc.), did loads of procedures, had an ownership stake in a large practice, or received a sizable guaranteed salary to practice in an underserved area, I could see it, maybe. It's also possible to have income from sources outside the practice of medicine (investments, etc.), but for this discussion, I'm assuming that one generates all of their income from their practice.

In a nutshell, it's possible, but these high-earners are going to be few and far between.

* MGMA (Medical Group Management Association): Per the 2005 survey based on 2004 data, the mean compensation for non-hospital owned FPs was $158,721.

 

[sophiejane]

Here's how two FP partners did it. They presented at a conference I attended recently.

First, they set up shop in a medically underserved area: that's key.

Second, they went to training seminars on their vacations and started buying equipment piece by piece. They started small, with colposcope, EKG, and exercise treadmill. They realized it was more efficient to have an in-house lab, so they set that up. Eventually they were doing echocardiograms, plain films, endoscopy, colonoscopy, casting, BTLs, laser skin care, etc. all IN HOUSE! Mind you, it has taken 25 years to build up all that procedural and diagnostic bling--it wasn't overnight.

They have been audited many times (and harrassed by all sorts of organizations), but they have come up clean every time. Their accuracy on reading echos is in line with cardiologists, according to the auditors. Now one of the partners actually sits on a board of a professional cardiology organization in the state.

An FP! I love it!

Here's the thing about these guys: they use part or all every vacation they get (and they are doing so well now that they each take off 3-4 months a year!) to learn new things or perfect skills. They are constantly learning and working to get better at what they do. The cool thing is that a lot of conferences and seminars are at great vacation spots, so you kill two birds with one stone.

These guys are not only great docs with great track records, they are very smart business people. They are providing badly needed services and making some serious cash in the process.

Now, do they drive Hummers and live in McMansions? I don't know, but I kind of doubt it. I think they've made the decision that vacation time is more important than toys...though I wouldn't doubt they have a few toys as well.

 

[NYSLicense]

Great story Sophie.

I love that sort of inspiration. It drives me!

Where is this practice loacated?
Who are they?
I would love to spend a day at their practice.

-NYSL

 

[sophiejane]

Great story Sophie.

I love that sort of inspiration. It drives me!

Where is this practice loacated?
Who are they?
I would love to spend a day at their practice.

-NYSL

They are in south Texas. I will have to dig through some stuff to get their names--wouldn't post that publicly anyway. I will PM you when I find it if you like. May be a few weeks as I have step 2 next week

 

[ntubebate]

What kind of earning potential exists for an FP opening up there own private practice, with FP's and PA's salaried?

Right at a million a year if you do all aspects of Family Medicine. Five MD's, 4 NP's and a PA. Everyone does full OB, proceedures and inpatient hospital care. PM me if you would like to discuss it privately

ntubebate

 

[erichaj]

I'm going to approach this from a pure financial angle.

Many FP's open their own practices.
What is improtant is where they open it.
If you have a good population that needs your services and they general insurance mix is good. Then you should do well. What I mean by that is that you could make more than the average you listed.

Here is an example.

Most FP's see about 20 to 30 pt's per day.

Lets say 25 for now. and lets say you work 4 1/2 days per week for a total of 48 weeks in a year. (4 weeks vacation)

Lets also say that the average pay for EACH visit is 75 dollars.

25 x 75 x 4 1/2 x 48 = 405000 dollars.

Lets take this gross earning and divide it by 12 months and then take out the cost to run you practice per month. This will include a percentage you may have to pay to the billing department. That is between 5 and 10 % of gross.
Lets say it will be 7%.

Most likely It will be around 16500 per month to run the practice.

405000 divided by 12 = 33750 x .93 (100-7) = 31387 - 16500 = 14887

14887 per month net profit before taxes. x 12 months = 178650 gross salary.

If you saw a few more patients per day or had a partner to take some of the overhead away or did some procedures in you practice or all of the above, you can see that your income in a private practice located in the right place will be higher than the average.

By the way, there are FP's that run their primary care practice well and make 250K per year.

Owning a practice is not for everyone but it can work for the right person.

 

[stapedius]

I'm going to approach this from a pure financial angle.

Many FP's open their own practices.
What is improtant is where they open it.
If you have a good population that needs your services and they general insurance mix is good. Then you should do well. What I mean by that is that you could make more than the average you listed.

Owning a practice is not for everyone but it can work for the right person.

This is a great way to look at the rough average. Also, remember that seeing patients in the hospital adds to your gross without raising the expenses much. Same as doing procedures in the hospital (colonoscopies, deliveries, etc).

 

[chanx314]

That story is impressive, the only thing I'm confused about is how they can do certain procedures...while anyone can do echo's, i thought only gastroenterologists could do colonoscopy, et al...how do they do such stuff

Also the whole thing about practicing in a medically underserved area is only partially correct...yes you can earn more in a medically underserved area, but only a specific type of area...they have to have insurance...if you go into the inner city such as Newark, NJ...they all have medicaid which has terrible reimbursement...the key is a low-income blue collar town...preferably a company town...even detroit back in the day when the auto companies employed many and had great insurance...really underserved areas are underserved for a reason either no insurance or medicaid insurance populations

 

[secretwave101]

I'm going to approach this from a pure financial angle.

Many FP's open their own practices.
What is improtant is where they open it.
If you have a good population that needs your services and they general insurance mix is good. Then you should do well. What I mean by that is that you could make more than the average you listed.

Here is an example.

Most FP's see about 20 to 30 pt's per day.

Lets say 25 for now. and lets say you work 4 1/2 days per week for a total of 48 weeks in a year. (4 weeks vacation)

Lets also say that the average pay for EACH visit is 75 dollars.

25 x 75 x 4 1/2 x 48 = 405000 dollars.

Lets take this gross earning and divide it by 12 months and then take out the cost to run you practice per month. This will include a percentage you may have to pay to the billing department. That is between 5 and 10 % of gross.
Lets say it will be 7%.

Most likely It will be around 16500 per month to run the practice.

405000 divided by 12 = 33750 x .93 (100-7) = 31387 - 16500 = 14887

14887 per month net profit before taxes. x 12 months = 178650 gross salary.

If you saw a few more patients per day or had a partner to take some of the overhead away or did some procedures in you practice or all of the above, you can see that your income in a private practice located in the right place will be higher than the average.

By the way, there are FP's that run their primary care practice well and make 250K per year.

Owning a practice is not for everyone but it can work for the right person.

Uh, does this 7% of gross for costs include malpractice insurance? If not, you're looking at real close to that 140k national average...plus the stress of both being a doctor and owning a small business plus the loan overhead you have from school and from starting the business itself.

 

[erichaj]

I included the malpractice in the 16500. Remember this is a rough number.
I also stated that owning a practice is not for everyone. If you don't like making the average FP salary, you have to take some risks.

Many specialist own their practices. They make more money that way.

Yes, There is stress in owning a business. If you want a life free of ownership stress then you can work for someone. You will make the average salary of FP.