Private practice opens fellowship

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Gfunk6

Gfunk6

And to think . . . I hesitated
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Members don't see this ad :)
They say it's a "proton" fellowship but then list radiopharm, HDR, GK etc. Sounds like another year of residency (except you get protons). I'd rather go into academics at a well-known place with protons and at least get a better salary and pick up protons while I am there.
 
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Gfunk6 said:
http://careers.astro.org/jobs/82956...py-and-advanced-radiation-oncology-fellowship

Granted this is a big, well-regarded private practice and surely they went through all the loopholes of ACGME.

But . . . damn.
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There are no loopholes to jump through...ACGME does not accredit radiation oncology fellowships. This is pure and simple appeal for cheap labor. If the applicants are typical of most radiation oncology fellowships they are filled by two types-1) Residents from weak US training programs trying to improve their resume 2) Residents from overseas trying to get a foothold in the US.
 
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you get to live in Chicago for a year
 
seper said:
you get to live in Chicago for a year
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You get to be a slave in Chicago for a year. Kindda sad to be a slave after 4 years of medschool and 5 years of residency.
 
I guess this is not authorized through the ACGME but I find it hard to believe that a fellowship like this can be opened without some accrediting body certifying that ROC has the volume and educational infrastructure to do what they are proposing.

Otherwise, I will stop posting jobs for "associates" and ask for "fellows" instead. :laugh:
 
seper said:
you get to live in Chicago for a year
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If the objective is to live in Chicago for a year, one would be better off doing a few locum gigs around the country. You would make the same as a fellow's yearly salary in less than 3 months time as a locum and have 9 months of free time to eat deep dish pizza.
 
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And y
Gfunk6 said:
I guess this is not authorized through the ACGME but I find it hard to believe that a fellowship like this can be opened without some accrediting body certifying that ROC has the volume and educational infrastructure to do what they are proposing.

Otherwise, I will stop posting jobs for "associates" and ask for "fellows" instead. :laugh:
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And you'd get a bunch of shi*tty people treating your patients and ruining your practice.
 
Gfunk6 said:
I guess this is not authorized through the ACGME but I find it hard to believe that a fellowship like this can be opened without some accrediting body certifying that ROC has the volume and educational infrastructure to do what they are proposing.

Otherwise, I will stop posting jobs for "associates" and ask for "fellows" instead. :laugh:
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I assure you there is/are no accrediting body(ies) for fellowships in radiation oncology. Caveat emptor.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
thesauce said:
What about the Peds fellowships? I thought I heard they were accredited
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Nope. Since there is no other certificate than generic Radiation Oncology there is no need for an accredited subspecialty fellowship
 
I say we flood their inbox with our cvs, and get them to pay our travel expenses. Then we host an sdn get-together, and take a nice group pic of our collective middle fingers.
 
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Reaganite said:
I say we flood their inbox with our cvs, and get them to pay our travel expenses. Then we host an sdn get-together, and take a nice group pic of our collective middle fingers.
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I second this motion.
 
kind of interested in who could have possibly applied.
 
I know this is beside the point, but since we are talking about cheap labor, somewhere in Arkansas I think, a job is being opened to recruit faculty who will oversee the creation of... a residency program... So much for pumping too many residents out there. I know, it is not the point of thread.
Now more to the point:
mpdoc2 said:
As an employer I would see this fellowship as a negative on an applicants CV.
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mpdoc2: more training, so why see this as a negative?
 
redoitall said:
I know this is beside the point, but since we are talking about cheap labor, somewhere in Arkansas I think, a job is being opened to recruit faculty who will oversee the creation of... a residency program... So much for pumping too many residents out there. I know, it is not the point of thread.
Now more to the point:


mpdoc2: more training, so why see this as a negative?
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Logically, most fellowships should be easy to get into in rad onc since none are really accredited and most programs train you well enough to go straight into practice.

The kind of candidate who couldn't get into a fellowship in an academic center with protons and instead had to go with this fellowship would be a questionable candidate for sure
 
redoitall said:
I know this is beside the point, but since we are talking about cheap labor, somewhere in Arkansas I think, a job is being opened to recruit faculty who will oversee the creation of... a residency program... So much for pumping too many residents out there. I know, it is not the point of thread.
Now more to the point:


mpdoc2: more training, so why see this as a negative?
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Exactly, the kind of candidate that couldn't get a real job is a negative for me (and other employers from what I've heard).
 
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Cheap labor use is sad. But I can see how a graduate may use this situation to his/her advantage. Perhaps, simply, this practice has an anticipated opening in 1 year.
 
seper said:
Cheap labor use is sad. But I can see how a graduate may use this situation to his/her advantage. Perhaps, simply, this practice has an anticipated opening in 1 year.
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I'm sure a practice like this also takes advantage of their junior attendings. Would you want to join a private practice that takes advantage of their junior attendings?
 
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medgator said:
Well if you're an fmg and you need a visa, why not?
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These places usually can't provide H-visas. But sure if your options are either to get deported to a god-forsaken place or work at this crappy job then I guess your stuck. But who in their right mind who isn't about to be deported would work for them.
 
mpdoc2 said:
These places usually can't provide H-visas. But sure if your options are either to get deported to a god-forsaken place or work at this crappy job then I guess your stuck. But who in their right mind who isn't about to be deported would work for them.
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The worst part is that the position will likely fill. Hopefully we are not going toward a world like in Radiology where now a fellowship is a must. God knows what things will be like 5 years from now...
 
Re proton fellowship: I understand if you wanted more experience treating base of skull or children, a proton fellowship at MGH may be useful, but what could you possibly need to "learn" to treat prostate, breast, and mets (yes, procure indeed does) with protons that would require a fellowship?
 
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I don't have much to add to the wise comments above except to say that seen through a wider lens it is embarrassing to our field that a "fellowship" like this can open. This position is so clearly exploitative to the trainee and offers no expertise or opportunity for growth. The purpose of accreditation is to block abuses; it is too bad that we don't have an oversight body in this case.
 
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I applied. told me that they have been inundated with candidates from Syria and the Islamic State.
 
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nkmiami said:
I applied. told me that they have been inundated with candidates from Syria and the Islamic State.
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Honestly I would be cautious about joining this group even as an attending. This group has obviously expressed their exploitative nature.
 
It is time to start offering ACGME accreditation for RO fellowships.


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seper said:
It is time to start offering ACGME accreditation for RO fellowships.


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Not s good idea for several reasons. Creates a slippery slope for prolonging training and creates additional funded spots for training when most hospitals are already training more trainees than they are funded for. The way it is now is perfect. Most residents would and should ignore fellowship offers unless the training fits a specific goal or the fellow wants to delay getting a job ( independently wealthy, waiting for a spouse to finish training, etc).


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Yes, but I'm worried that introduction of RO fellowships is fait accompli. 10% of graduates already do it.


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seper said:
Yes, but I'm worried that introduction of RO fellowships is fait accompli. 10% of graduates already do it.


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That seems a bit high. Was that what is reported in the ARRO survey ??? To compare 100% of medical oncology fellows have fellowship training. We don't want to go there.


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medgator said:
Except med onc needs a fellowship otherwise they are just internists
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Correct. And from what I gather all ACGME fellowships are for specific specialty training where you need that training to do the job. Certainly internists can do some of what a rheumatologist or cardiologist or nephrologist does but they don't carry their expertise. Do we want to be in a position where some of what we do can only be done by subspecialists or where it starts to become standard to be a PGY 6?


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radiaterMike said:
Correct. And from what I gather all ACGME fellowships are for specific specialty training where you need that training to do the job. Certainly internists can do some of what a rheumatologist or cardiologist or nephrologist does but they don't carry their expertise. Do we want to be in a position where some of what we do can only be done by subspecialists or where it starts to become standard to be a PGY 6?


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Fair point. I know the ABR had tried to create the brachy subspecialty "certificate" but I think that was nixed a year or two ago.
 
"Fellowships" offered in past 3 weeks on ASTRO site:

Harvard:
1. Brachytherapy
2. CNS
3. Palliative Care

Chicago Private Practice:
4. Protons

University Florida:
5. Adult Proton
6. Pediatric Proton

Yale:
7. Radiosurgery

UCLA:
8. Brachytherapy

Harvard:
9. Pediatric Clinical Research Proton


Gross. I think it's incumbent of graduating residents to outright reject such positions even if they are convenient geographically. The alternative is that everyone has to do a "fellowship" to be employable; like in radiology. This would turn what used to/should be a 4 year residency into a 6 year residency.
 
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there are also fairly long-standing fellowships at Miami and UPMC, I believe.
Look, with this job climate, fellowships are here to stay. We need to start looking how Radiology made their fellowships ACGME-approved.
 
I can kind of understand brachy and (pediatric more so than adult) proton.

Radiosurgery and palliative care baffles me - that seems like a general surgeon doing a "fellowship" in cholecystectomy and appendectomy techniques. IMO in the modern era a rad onc shouldn't need a fellowship to do radiosurgery or palliation.
 
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