Private practice?

[hye345]

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Why is it considered harder to open up a private practice in optometry than in medicine? I mean, doesn't the med grad have more debt?

 

[UABopt]

Why is it considered harder to open up a private practice in optometry than in medicine? I mean, doesn't the med grad have more debt?

Why would a med grad have more debt than a newly minted OD? Tuition tends to be about the same, both take 4 years.

 

[cpw]

Why is it considered harder to open up a private practice in optometry than in medicine? I mean, doesn't the med grad have more debt?

No.. they don't. I know some recent NOVA grads who owe 160k for OD school.

And, ODs tend to make less than MDs so it takes a bigger chunk out of your paycheck paying back the loans than someone making over 200k a year as an MD.

It's VERY hard to start a private practice cold right out of school because you're in so much debt it's hard to get a loan -- especially, if you're trying to buy a house at the same time.

 

[bournehall]

The reason it is hard to start a private practice in optometry has little to do with getting a loan, it has to do almost 100% with the fact that there is a vast overabundance of optometrists. The school in S. Florida was not needed in the first place and simply compounds the problem.

No.. they don't. I know some recent NOVA grads who owe 160k for OD school.

And, ODs tend to make less than MDs so it takes a bigger chunk out of your paycheck paying back the loans than someone making over 200k a year as an MD.

It's VERY hard to start a private practice cold right out of school because you're in so much debt it's hard to get a loan -- especially, if you're trying to buy a house at the same time.

 

[cpw]

The reason it is hard to start a private practice in optometry has little to do with getting a loan, it has to do almost 100% with the fact that there is a vast overabundance of optometrists. The school in S. Florida was not needed in the first place and simply compounds the problem.

tell that to my friend who could barely qualify for a mortgage based on her debt to income ratio. (even with a great credit rating) And, we went to UHCO so she owes much less than some other people I know.

 

[jefguth]

tell that to my friend who could barely qualify for a mortgage based on her debt to income ratio. (even with a great credit rating) And, we went to UHCO so she owes much less than some other people I know.

What was her repayment plan, 10yrs, 30yrs? From a class I took 1st year we were taught that banks determine how much of a loan you can afford by looking at your monthly cashflow and expenses - not necessarily the absolute debt to income ratio. By opting for the 30yr plan the amount payed each month is greatly reduced and allows you to afford a larger loan/mortgage with higher monthyly payments. A good reason not to buy the $1000/mo BMW fresh out of school.

 

[hye345]

The reason it is hard to start a private practice in optometry has little to do with getting a loan, it has to do almost 100% with the fact that there is a vast overabundance of optometrists. The school in S. Florida was not needed in the first place and simply compounds the problem.

Is the overabundance like medicine where only the coasts and other big cities are oversaturated, or is it more of a national overcrowding?

 

[UABopt]

Is the overabundance like medicine where only the coasts and other big cities are oversaturated, or is it more of a national overcrowding?

While everybody wishes there were less ODs from the perspective that each of us would be “better off.” All of this talk of oversaturation of the optometric market is constantly talked about without any data. Some data that has already been presented but I think is very interesting can be found here
http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/reports/factbook02/FB502.htm

As you can see there have been no new schools opening since 1981… that is 26 years!


Having seen all of this woe is me talk about the state of optometry on the forums lately I decided to do just a little research to see if the facts matched up with the perception. So I went to the Census website to look up a few numbers.

In 1988 there were a total of 37,000 optometrists in the USA. http://www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2003/spring/art01.pdf
In 1998 there were still a total of 37,000 optometrists in the USA
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2000/spring/art01.pdf
In 2000 the number was 38,000 ODs
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2003/spring/art01.pdf

And in 2004 you guessed it still around the same between 34,000 and 39,000 ODs depending on whose numbers you look at.

Notice that in each case the government estimates that there will be an increase in the number of ODs but in each case the numbers tend to remain stable. The number of dentists on the other hand has actually decreased slightly, more than likely due to a reduction in the number of schools.

In conclusion (ignoring that some parts of the country may be completely oversaturated) if there are too many ODs today then there were FAR too many in 1988.


AND from another source

http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce...0Chiropractors


Regardless, if you refer to table 101, you will notice that the number of ODs per population has not increased out of step with the rest of the increase per popluation of other healthcare practitioners. According to your cited study, there are only 30 percent more ODs per 100,000 people since 1970, compare that to a 79.8 percent increase in MDs a 119% increase in RNs per person since 1970. In fact even dentists have grown more than ODs 30.5 percent more dentists per person today than in 1970. Those facts taken in addition to the increase in the number of female ODs... and female health care providers across the board (Who will be much more likely to work part time… based purely on statistics), go to show that the situation is not nearly as dire as some people on this board would lead you to believe. Certainly we would be much better off if there were all of the sudden half the number of ODs were gone, and maybe in some parts of the country conditions are more bleak than they are in others, but in general the numbers are in our favor.

Not only that, the number of ODs graduating per year has stayed very stable in the past 25 years refer to table 105 and you might think the number is increasing, but add last year and the year before as data points and you will notice that it is not increasing that rapidly. In 1980-81 1249 ODs graduated in 1991-1992 1355 ODs graduated, in 2000 the number was 1384. In 2005 1251 ODs graduated, about the same as the number that graduated in 1980. Once again the numbers are not quite as out of control as some would have you believe.

 

[TomOD]

Spoken like a true student (or faculty member)😳

"Based on the most recent numbers reported by the American Optometric Association (AOA), approximately 40,000 optometrists practice in the United States, or about 17,000 more than market demand currently requires.

To help ease the seemingly over-abundance of optometrists, approximately 550 optometrists retire every year - a number that is projected to increase to 850 each year by 2015. On the other hand, the colleges of optometry graduate some 1,025 new optometrists every year, and I don't expect that that number will reduce any time soon."

Don't fool yourself. You can be successful but you'd better be willing to work harder than you ever have in your life if you don't want to be flipping dials in a department store for the next 40 years of your career. ODs are competing with OMDs, opticians, chain stores, corporations, mail order, beauty salons, primary care MDs, and pediatricians. They all want a piece of the pie.

You gotta work hard, smart and clean. But yes, we do have a tremendous oversupply of eye care providers.

 

[cpw]

Tom !!! Where have ya been !? How are all things NC ?

 

[TomOD]

Tom !!! Where have ya been !? How are all things NC ?

Outstanding lately. Staying busy, working hard and making money.

 

[cpw]

Outstanding lately. Staying busy, working hard and making money.

great to hear !! 😀 I think you're one of the few who's been on this forum as long as I have 😉

 

[Chuffsla]

Spoken like a true student (or faculty member)😳

"Based on the most recent numbers reported by the American Optometric Association (AOA), approximately 40,000 optometrists practice in the United States, or about 17,000 more than market demand currently requires.

To help ease the seemingly over-abundance of optometrists, approximately 550 optometrists retire every year - a number that is projected to increase to 850 each year by 2015. On the other hand, the colleges of optometry graduate some 1,025 new optometrists every year, and I don't expect that that number will reduce any time soon."

Don't fool yourself. You can be successful but you'd better be willing to work harder than you ever have in your life if you don't want to be flipping dials in a department store for the next 40 years of your career. ODs are competing with OMDs, opticians, chain stores, corporations, mail order, beauty salons, primary care MDs, and pediatricians. They all want a piece of the pie.

You gotta work hard, smart and clean. But yes, we do have a tremendous oversupply of eye care providers.

But then what to make of the reports referenced in the post above you? If there's a great oversupply of ODs now (as the AOA contends) then there really must have been a problem in decades past, but we don't hear of that. Things seem to have worked out. So I'm not sure what to make of everything. I keep hearing of the oversaturation of ODs but hard data doesn't seem to support that notion, at least on a countrywide basis (btw I'm in Canada and assuming things are more or less similar here).

 

[broadway]

Just Remember That Not All Americans Get Eye Exams. When They Do It Is Every Two Years.

 

[DrEyeBall]

Why would a med grad have more debt than a newly minted OD? Tuition tends to be about the same, both take 4 years.

That may be true. However, the MD has another 4-7 years of training after school. Most defer their loan payments and the principle will almost double. SO, the debt can be much more at the end. Also, the salary of 200k is grossly overestimated for a starting MD in most markets.

Not many MDs hang a shingle on their own anymore. It is just too expensive. Some will join a group for awhile and then leave to go on their own.

 

[idoctobe]

i dont understand why people keep saying there are too many ODs when there is such a huge prevalence of preventable eye dieseases in this country and this world. plus there are only 17 OD schools with small classes. where is the over abundance? maybe we should try to venture to the underserved places and we will notice the lack of ODs...just another perspective

 

[PBEA]

i dont understand why people keep saying there are too many ODs when there is such a huge prevalence of preventable eye dieseases in this country and this world. plus there are only 17 OD schools with small classes. where is the over abundance? maybe we should try to venture to the underserved places and we will notice the lack of ODs...just another perspective

You are confusing theoretical demand with actual usage. People may have a ton of eye disease (preventable or otherwise) but on average they will not seek examination unless they are symptomatic. This means that there are many providers ready to battle all of these eye problems, but most people pay no mind as they perceive nothing is wrong. Your comments are the same as the AOAs in this regard, and are misleading. Also adding 3 OD schools will do nothing to offset any perceived "lack of ODs" in underserved areas. Like every other licensed profession, we tend to gravitate to urban centers, so again your comments are not accurate.

 

[JeffChou]

While everybody wishes there were less ODs from the perspective that each of us would be “better off.” All of this talk of oversaturation of the optometric market is constantly talked about without any data. Some data that has already been presented but I think is very interesting can be found here
http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/reports/factbook02/FB502.htm

As you can see there have been no new schools opening since 1981… that is 26 years!


Having seen all of this woe is me talk about the state of optometry on the forums lately I decided to do just a little research to see if the facts matched up with the perception. So I went to the Census website to look up a few numbers.

In 1988 there were a total of 37,000 optometrists in the USA. http://www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2003/spring/art01.pdf
In 1998 there were still a total of 37,000 optometrists in the USA
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2000/spring/art01.pdf
In 2000 the number was 38,000 ODs
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2003/spring/art01.pdf

And in 2004 you guessed it still around the same between 34,000 and 39,000 ODs depending on whose numbers you look at.

Notice that in each case the government estimates that there will be an increase in the number of ODs but in each case the numbers tend to remain stable. The number of dentists on the other hand has actually decreased slightly, more than likely due to a reduction in the number of schools.

In conclusion (ignoring that some parts of the country may be completely oversaturated) if there are too many ODs today then there were FAR too many in 1988.
........

If those numbers are correct, I think we can assume the overabundance is really just an overcrowding of optometrists in urban areas. While many of the rural optometrists may have retired since 20 years ago, fewer graduates have chosen to practice in a rural town.

I remember reading many posts about how great the opportunities are in rural towns where few OD's practice and even fewer ophthalmologists practice.

Knowing this still can't convince me to practice rural optometry. It's probably my naivete, but I seem to believe that I might be one of the luckier ones who can break 100k with comfortable hours (I'm totally perpetuating the problem here).