Private Practice

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I was wondering if anyone knew what the precentage of PT's own or run a private practice.

Is it difficult to start a new practice?

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[ONstudentPT]

I was wondering if anyone knew what the precentage of PT's own or run a private practice.

Is it difficult to start a new practice?

I am not sure what the actual percentage is..but I know from talking to PTs who have graduated from my school that most of the guys in the program after a few years ended up opening thier own PT clinic or business. I think PT is still somewhat of a female dominated profession considering only about 30% of my class are males and from talking to female PTs they have told me that it is a little more difficult for them to start up a clinic because many of them want to start a family and have kids.. but thier are some that do it. So considering those things .. I think most PTs dont open up thier own clinic but the option is definetley there. I dont think its difficult to start up a clinic .. but it is difficult to compete in areas where there are already a lot of clinics around. So the tough part is finding a good location and getting the referrals sources going.

 

[PT2MD]

It is very difficult...make no mistake. There are many issues involved that most folks don't think about. Most of them pertain to credentialling, billing, and collections. Due to the fact that the health care "market" isn't really even a true market, it makes it hard to plan for these issues.

Medicare, for example, took nearly a year to credential a staff PT who works for me. Other payors won't even look in your direction if Medicare hasn't signed off on you. It wont' matter if you've got relatinships with doctors or patients if you can't collect on your charges.

It can be done and it is worth it if it works out for you. Make sure you have the cash reserves to tolerate up to two years of slow growth. Otherwise you will flame out (this is actually the #1 reason most businesses go under incidently).

Then you have to deal with external threats such as physician-owned practices, larger companies, chiropractors, and other nasty little barriers to your growth that are completely beyond your control. It pisses me off typing about it, but these are some of the many reasons I'm headed into medicine.

I won't be rolling in dough, but I will call far more shots than as a physical therapist. Sad but true.

 

[ONstudentPT]

It is very difficult...make no mistake. There are many issues involved that most folks don't think about. Most of them pertain to credentialling, billing, and collections. Due to the fact that the health care "market" isn't really even a true market, it makes it hard to plan for these issues.

Medicare, for example, took nearly a year to credential a staff PT who works for me. Other payors won't even look in your direction if Medicare hasn't signed off on you. It wont' matter if you've got relatinships with doctors or patients if you can't collect on your charges.

It can be done and it is worth it if it works out for you. Make sure you have the cash reserves to tolerate up to two years of slow growth. Otherwise you will flame out (this is actually the #1 reason most businesses go under incidently).

Then you have to deal with external threats such as physician-owned practices, larger companies, chiropractors, and other nasty little barriers to your growth that are completely beyond your control. It pisses me off typing about it, but these are some of the many reasons I'm headed into medicine.

I won't be rolling in dough, but I will call far more shots than as a physical therapist. Sad but true.

Does every state have the same issues with credentialling, billing, and collections or are some states better than others. Where I live credentialling, billing, and collections is not the barrier ...the biggest barrier has more to do with the competitive market and building up your clientale. Once you have a good reputation in your community and good relationships with referral sources and have the patients rolling in .. you can make a pretty decent living. Ofcourse the odds of making as much as a surgeon although possible are very unlikely but many of the PT owned clinics I worked at are bringing in close to the same amount as a GP would but GPs dont have to worry about the same type of competition and constant marketing.

 

[PT2MD]

Good question. I can only speak of the environment in here in Texas. It is a real challenge. Both internal and external obstacles to success. However once you build up a head of steam you can do well. We have been open for two years this month and we are only now beginning to make a good margin.

We will continue to do well unless a group of doctors decides to open up their own PT practice right next door...then we'll go down in flames.

Also, if there is a PT practice making more money than a GP's office, there is something wrong going on in at least one of the two offices. I bet if you looked at the clinic's profit/loss statements, you'll find that a primary care office does much better per provider than a PT clinic.

 

[ONstudentPT]

Good question. I can only speak of the environment in here in Texas. It is a real challenge. Both internal and external obstacles to success. However once you build up a head of steam you can do well. We have been open for two years this month and we are only now beginning to make a good margin.

We will continue to do well unless a group of doctors decides to open up their own PT practice right next door...then we'll go down in flames.

Also, if there is a PT practice making more money than a GP's office, there is something wrong going on in at least one of the two offices. I bet if you looked at the clinic's profit/loss statements, you'll find that a primary care office does much better per provider than a PT clinic.

I guess it depends on where you live ... I have worked in a private PT owned clinic where thier gross income was around 240 grand so net probably around 130 grand..and the clinic was a great place very ethical, great manual therapy around 3 to 4 patients per hour per therapist ..the PT owner wasnt too over worked .. probably working around 45 hours a week. Also a friend of mines dad is a GP and he grosses around 280 grand ...so close to the physio clinic .. but I think he could make more if he worked a little harder ... he is on the verge of retirement. Do all PT owned clinics gross over 240k ? .. probably not .. some make less some make more...although I think most PTs who own clinics are making more then they would working as a salaried PT... the big difference for the GPs is that they are almost garanteed to make over 200k. Do you own your clinic on your own in Texas or do you have partners as well?

 

[PT2MD]

Wow that sounds like a good practice. Not to argue your point, but did you say the GP himself pulls $240 grand while the entire PT clinic pulls around $130? If so that would still seem to work in favor of the GP.

 

[ONstudentPT]

Wow that sounds like a good practice. Not to argue your point, but did you say the GP himself pulls $240 grand while the entire PT clinic pulls around $130? If so that would still seem to work in favor of the GP.

I think you may have misunderstood.. the physio clinic grossed about 240k and I believe the net for the PT who owned the clinic was around 130k. My friends dad who is a GP has his own practice seperate from that physio clinic .. his practise gross was about 280k.. The 130k net is for the PT who owns the clinic after all expenses including staff and overhead etc etc. but .. you are right I think the net for the GP himself would still be better than the PT who owns this clinic but not too much of a difference... but I think its still a decent amount for the PT who runs and owns this clinic. I cant argue the fact that MDs will obviously make more then most PTs even the ones that own thier own clinics ..but I think that a PT who owns a fairly clinic can approach the amount a GP would make...at least from what I have observed in my area...although a GP will have less headaches with having to worry about marketing and competition. There are some PTs who are more business savy then others and enjoy running a business then there are other PTs(probably a majority) who dont want to worry about the BS that comes with running a physiotherapy business...and there is quite a bit of BS at times... and thats understandable.

 

[Cyrus44]

Ive been working at a therapy clinic for the past 4 years as a aid while going to physical therapy school. My boss is planning on retiring in 10 years and said he would hire me and sell me the clinic after. I dont know if i would do it b/c honestly 10 years is far away and people can change their minds. Also i may go back to school after travelling for a year. Anyways he did tell me what he was making (150K). He works 50 hours a wk and see about 35-40 pts a day. He has 5 kids 4/5 in college (one in law school) which he pays for. He also lives in a nice house. The clinic has two full time PTs, a part time PT, 2 PTAs, a pool, 1 FT PT aid, 2 Part time PT aids, 5 upfront workers, and someone to deal with insurance companies. The clinic has been running for 25 years. This is also located in Buffalo, NY one of the lowest reimbusement areas in this state.

 

[PT2MD]

The PT markets outside of Texas must be strong.

 

[ONstudentPT]

The PT markets outside of Texas must be strong.

I am not sure did you say you that you own the clinic you are at your self? I know it is difficult to get net income numbers from business owners but you may be surprised at how much a physiotherapist who fully owns a fairly successful clinic brings in.

 

[PT2MD]

Actually do own the clinic. It does well but will always be limited. I'm not looking for hand over fist money. I've worked hard in school, earned my board certification in orthopedics, and maintain very high clinical standards for myself and staff. Yet all this can be rendered useless if the MD's next door open their own clinic, or the local chiro get's in bed with an MD and starts "rehabilitating" their patients.

The PT situation over the next 30 years in the outpatient PT market is really up in the air. It could improve or worsen significantly. However with limited resources funding a growing population (i.e. Medicare), the math must force you to at least examine the options such as medicine.

You might say medicine is in a similar boat, facing many of the same issues. The biggest difference is that the AMA has the political and social inertia to resist many of the negative forces that threaten physical therapy. The APTA has vision, but is very, VERY, weak in the political arena. This makes physical therapy a less (note I didn't say UN-) profitable career path.

Funny we are even talking about this. Right now my clinic is doing very well. I've got good referral sources, steady income, and growing clinic revenue. All this and I'm still throwing my hat into medical school. I have many reasons for going this route, but don't want to hijack the thread by listing them.

The average MD will almost certainly out earn the average PT. Just as the exceptionally business minded MD will out earn his PT counterpart. An important note for me (as we have been talking mostly $$ to this point) is to factor in money as only one of the many reasons to choose a career path.

 

[ONstudentPT]

Actually do own the clinic. It does well but will always be limited. I'm not looking for hand over fist money. I've worked hard in school, earned my board certification in orthopedics, and maintain very high clinical standards for myself and staff. Yet all this can be rendered useless if the MD's next door open their own clinic, or the local chiro get's in bed with an MD and starts "rehabilitating" their patients.

The PT situation over the next 30 years in the outpatient PT market is really up in the air. It could improve or worsen significantly. However with limited resources funding a growing population (i.e. Medicare), the math must force you to at least examine the options such as medicine.

You might say medicine is in a similar boat, facing many of the same issues. The biggest difference is that the AMA has the political and social inertia to resist many of the negative forces that threaten physical therapy. The APTA has vision, but is very, VERY, weak in the political arena. This makes physical therapy a less (note I didn't say UN-) profitable career path.

Funny we are even talking about this. Right now my clinic is doing very well. I've got good referral sources, steady income, and growing clinic revenue. All this and I'm still throwing my hat into medical school. I have many reasons for going this route, but don't want to hijack the thread by listing them.

The average MD will almost certainly out earn the average PT. Just as the exceptionally business minded MD will out earn his PT counterpart. An important note for me (as we have been talking mostly $$ to this point) is to factor in money as only one of the many reasons to choose a career path.

I agree with everything you have said.. I would not debate the fact that an MD will out earn a PT counterpart in most cases. My whole point was that there are successful PTs who do own clinics and make a fairly decent amount of money..I say this because I know some of these PTs ..and although there income cannot compare to surgeon or a very business minded MD.. they still do pretty well and can sometimes compare to just an average GP salary at least in areas where I live and worked. As a clinic owner yourself .. would you say that the incomes I have listed are way off for a PT who owns a successful clinic? You are right there are more uncertanties and threats facing the PT profession than the MD profession when we are talking about earning potential ...there is no doubt about that. My point was only that it is possible .. to make a pretty good living by owning a successful PT clinic. Now when choosing PT over MD or MD over PT there other important things to consider other than just money.. because they can be two very different professions in more ways than just earning potential.

 

[PT2MD]

Kind of laughing to myself over here. PT's are great at arguing with each other, even when they agree. You'll make a good one.😉

 

[Cyrus44]

Do u think i would make more money opeing a ice cream shop or a PT clinic

 

[ONstudentPT]

Do u think i would make more money opeing a ice cream shop or a PT clinic

How many ice cream shops and how many PT clinics in your area? and how much are you planning on charging for ice cream? LOL

 

[Cyrus44]

its late and honestly i cant think of how to respond. Too many tests too little time

 

[MPBiz]

It is very difficult...make no mistake. There are many issues involved that most folks don't think about. Most of them pertain to credentialling, billing, and collections. Due to the fact that the health care "market" isn't really even a true market, it makes it hard to plan for these issues.

Medicare, for example, took nearly a year to credential a staff PT who works for me. Other payors won't even look in your direction if Medicare hasn't signed off on you. It wont' matter if you've got relatinships with doctors or patients if you can't collect on your charges.

It can be done and it is worth it if it works out for you. Make sure you have the cash reserves to tolerate up to two years of slow growth. Otherwise you will flame out (this is actually the #1 reason most businesses go under incidently).

Then you have to deal with external threats such as physician-owned practices, larger companies, chiropractors, and other nasty little barriers to your growth that are completely beyond your control. It pisses me off typing about it, but these are some of the many reasons I'm headed into medicine.

I won't be rolling in dough, but I will call far more shots than as a physical therapist. Sad but true.

Hello. i know its years later from when u posted this original message but I am a student doing a marketing plan on a pt private practice. in your post u mentioned some external threats to a practice. would you mind giving me a list of all the external threats you can think of that could affect a pt practice.