Problem-based learning

[starfish229]

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I've always been interested in applying to Western mainly because I love that area of california. But after reading more about their problem-based learning curriculum, I became a little unsure if I even want to apply there anymore.

I was wondering if anyone here has experience with any schools that have problem-based learning. I know that Purdue has a few classes like that in the second year, and I'm pretty sure Cornell does too. It's kind of hard for me to go through every school's website to try to find what their curriculum looks like, so that's all I've been able to find so far. Does anyone know of a full list of schools that incorporate PBL in at least a few of their classes?

I'm just very used to sitting in lecture, taking notes on my computer, then going back and re-writing my notes in a notebook to organize them, which makes it easier for me to visualize and remember the information. PBL makes me very nervous that I won't be able to adjust to that new style of learning and I won't do as well in vet school. I don't want to start at square one again to try to discover new ways for me to study and learn the information, when I finally have a whole system down that really works for me. So basically what are your thoughts are on PBL and have you had any experience with it? If you know which schools incorporate it into their curriculum, I would love to make a list so I can look further into each one!

 

[SkiOtter]

I don't want to start at square one again to try to discover new ways for me to study and learn the information, when I finally have a whole system down that really works for me.

This is probably going to happen no matter what.

 

[jaboo]

So I only have experience from the "tutorial PBL session" given by Cornell at their accepted/waitlisted students day. I can give you a basic idea of how Cornell does it, but idk how other schools do it.

Basically you're given a packet with a case study. You go through the packet page by page (never skipping ahead--which was very tempting) with a teacher who stays mostly out of discussion except to ask questions that no one else is asking. After you read each page you go over questions like "what do we know about this case from this information?" and "what questions do you want to ask the owner?" and "what system of the body is this likely connected to?" That last question is really what drives everything. As you go along, you'll write down "learning goals." So if the case is about a chronic UTI, one of the learning goals will be to read about the urinary tract, all its components, and how UTI's happen. This is essentially your homework for the class. You come back a day or two later, report findings, and then repeat with the next page of the packet. Cornell was big on writing everything down on a whiteboard while discussing things--especially concerning things like anatomy and drawing things out. The goal was really to both teach you how to explain things to clients, how to teach you to work as a team with other vets, and how to manage a case as if you were actually the treating vet. It was forcing you to learn anatomy and concepts behind diagnostics.

I personally really like PBL. I remember walking out of the tutorial session and wanting to keep going. It felt like a puzzle and it really motivated me to want to go to the library and learn more about anatomy and physiology.

Yes, the transition to PBL is not an easy one, but vet school isn't easy.

 

[starfish229]

This is probably going to happen no matter what.

I'm not going to cross them off my list just cause they have PBL for like two or three classes, but I probably won't apply to Western because that's basically all of the curriculum and I don't think I could adjust to that type of learning for EVERY class. I know more schools are trying to incorporate it a little, but all I've seen so far are purdue and cornell.

 

[starfish229]

So I only have experience from the "tutorial PBL session" given by Cornell at their accepted/waitlisted students day. I can give you a basic idea of how Cornell does it, but idk how other schools do it.

Basically you're given a packet with a case study. You go through the packet page by page (never skipping ahead--which was very tempting) with a teacher who stays mostly out of discussion except to ask questions that no one else is asking. After you read each page you go over questions like "what do we know about this case from this information?" and "what questions do you want to ask the owner?" and "what system of the body is this likely connected to?" That last question is really what drives everything. As you go along, you'll write down "learning goals." So if the case is about a chronic UTI, one of the learning goals will be to read about the urinary tract, all its components, and how UTI's happen. This is essentially your homework for the class. You come back a day or two later, report findings, and then repeat with the next page of the packet. Cornell was big on writing everything down on a whiteboard while discussing things--especially concerning things like anatomy and drawing things out. The goal was really to both teach you how to explain things to clients, how to teach you to work as a team with other vets, and how to manage a case as if you were actually the treating vet. It was forcing you to learn anatomy and concepts behind diagnostics.

I personally really like PBL. I remember walking out of the tutorial session and wanting to keep going. It felt like a puzzle and it really motivated me to want to go to the library and learn more about anatomy and physiology.

Yes, the transition to PBL is not an easy one, but vet school isn't easy.

Thanks! That is really helpful. I think that sounds interesting, and I could definitely do that for certain classes. Did you choose Cornell?

 

[SkiOtter]

I'm not going to cross them off my list just cause they have PBL for like two or three classes, but I probably won't apply to Western because that's basically all of the curriculum and I don't think I could adjust to that type of learning for EVERY class. I know more schools are trying to incorporate it a little, but all I've seen so far are purdue and cornell.

Nooooot what I’m saying.

You’re being hit with a firehose of information. What worked in undergrad may not work at all for you in vet school when you have that much information coming at you, or if it does work a bit, it probably won’t work well. You’ll have to change your study habits to figure out how to study for vet school. That’s what I’m saying.

 

[twelvetigers]

Yeah, whatever study things you've learned to do will at least have to be modified considerably to accommodate the sheer amount of information you have to go through. It just... that's how it is. It will be an adjustment. It is for everyone. Nothing to fret about right now, just realize that things will be different from undergrad and you'll have to readjust.

PBL is definitely different, and having that as the main structure would be... different. There are still some didactic/lecture type courses where things will be taught is a more familiar way, but a lot of time is spent on individual cases. Hard to say if you'd like it more, or less. It seems to prepare folks pretty well for rotations, NAVLE, and the real world. Any US vet school should do that, though.

I'm gonna say what everyone else is thinking though... if you are independently wealthy or have a great aunt that has agreed to pay your entire ($60k/year) tuition as it happens, then you may completely ignore the following statement.

I've always been interested in applying to Western mainly because I love that area of california.

Western is one of the most expensive veterinary schools in the US. It costs a lot, with most students graduating with between $220,000 and $300,000 of debt. The monthly payments on this debt on a 20 year plan would be akin to $3000 per month. Starting salary in SoCal is probably close to $80k to $90k a year, so $6-7k a month. If you account for rent ($2k in SoCal seems reasonable?) plus food, insurance, cell phone, utilities - you are probably already in the negative. As such, many new graduates have to pursue income based repayment. This allows you to base your total payments on a percentage of your salary, making for much more reasonable amounts. However, this results in very minimal payments to the principal of the loan. So, you pay something like $1300 a month based on your income. Well, $1100 of that goes to interest and $200 goes to principal... so you only pay off $200 per month, or $2400/year. On a $220,000 loan. You will be paying until you die. Or, you'll be relying on loan forgiveness after 25 years along with the rest of your (not independently wealthy) classmates. This program is constantly at risk of being cancelled with education reform (Trump has been talking about it here and there) and no one has *actually* gotten any loans forgiven yet because it has not existed for 25 years yet. Once that time hits, the government may realize that it's too much and remove it as an option.

(Plus you have to pay taxes on the full, forgiven amount because it counts as 'income' when it happens, and taxes on $200,000 is like, $60,000?)

Some folks have low enough payments on income-based repayment that they don't even cover the interest per month. These people may have graduated with $300,000 in debt and, after five years, they have $380,000 in debt.

Do NOT ignore what this would mean for you and your life, both financially and personally, to have this sort of burden. So many of us could not have imagined doing anything else, and wanted to be vets since we are six, and damnit we're gonna make it happen. We'll live on ramen if we have to. Well, this goes beyond living on ramen - it's downright debilitating.

The solution... think about this hard and make 100% sure it's what you want. Once you are sure that there isn't anything else that would make you happy... work hard to figure out what the cheapest school would be for you. Yes, the weather in SoCal is amazing, but you can handle 4 years of living just about anywhere if it means you graduate with $130,000 in debt rather than nearly twice that.

I'll stop harping. No one here wants to rain on parades or poop on childhood dreams, but anyone considering this industry needs a HEAVY dose of reality. Because I see people unhappy with their decision everywhere. There's lots of us that wish we had thought it through a bit more. That's all.

 

[jaboo]

Did you choose Cornell?

I'm still on the in-state waitlist and probably not going to come off. Would choose them if they'd choose me!

 

[DVMDream]

Starting salary in SoCal is probably close to $80k to $90k a year, so $6-7k a month. If you account for rent ($2k in SoCal seems reasonable?) plus food, insurance, cell phone, utilities - you are probably already in the negative. As such, many new graduates have to pursue income based repayment.

As someone who makes the very upper end of this salary. $6-7k is before tax, I pull in just over $4k per month after tax, health insurance, etc.

 

[twelvetigers]

As someone who makes the very upper end of this salary. $6-7k is before tax, I pull in just over $4k per month after tax, health insurance, etc.

Yeah, forgot to mention that was pre-tax. Guess that makes it even worse...

 

[pp9]

I've always been interested in applying to Western mainly because I love that area of california. But after reading more about their problem-based learning curriculum, I became a little unsure if I even want to apply there anymore.

I was wondering if anyone here has experience with any schools that have problem-based learning. I know that Purdue has a few classes like that in the second year, and I'm pretty sure Cornell does too. It's kind of hard for me to go through every school's website to try to find what their curriculum looks like, so that's all I've been able to find so far. Does anyone know of a full list of schools that incorporate PBL in at least a few of their classes?

I'm just very used to sitting in lecture, taking notes on my computer, then going back and re-writing my notes in a notebook to organize them, which makes it easier for me to visualize and remember the information. PBL makes me very nervous that I won't be able to adjust to that new style of learning and I won't do as well in vet school. I don't want to start at square one again to try to discover new ways for me to study and learn the information, when I finally have a whole system down that really works for me. So basically what are your thoughts are on PBL and have you had any experience with it? If you know which schools incorporate it into their curriculum, I would love to make a list so I can look further into each one!

Illinois has some PBL.

Pretty much the entirety of your clinical experience is PBL based on the cases you're seeing on each service so you're going to experience it no matter what. Traditional lecture style doesn't really require that much effort other than you memorizing/learning the info provided. PBL requires you to think critically about a case, make connections, etc, much like you will every day of your life as a vet. Ignoring any other factors that go into picking a school, PBL will challenge you in a good way. Personally, I felt I learned the most from our PBL sessions. Otherwise you're just being talked at while someone dumps 10,000 words on a slide for you to memorize.

 

[Vannandy]

Every school has PBL incorporated into its curriculum at some point... you have to think as a clinician. Best advice is to adapt within school and change study habits if they aren't working. I know plenty who study the same way semester after semester and are confused when they don't do well. Insert Bear Grylls adapt improvise meme here.

 

[love2hunt]

I've always been interested in applying to Western mainly because I love that area of california. But after reading more about their problem-based learning curriculum, I became a little unsure if I even want to apply there anymore.

I was wondering if anyone here has experience with any schools that have problem-based learning. I know that Purdue has a few classes like that in the second year, and I'm pretty sure Cornell does too. It's kind of hard for me to go through every school's website to try to find what their curriculum looks like, so that's all I've been able to find so far. Does anyone know of a full list of schools that incorporate PBL in at least a few of their classes?

I'm just very used to sitting in lecture, taking notes on my computer, then going back and re-writing my notes in a notebook to organize them, which makes it easier for me to visualize and remember the information. PBL makes me very nervous that I won't be able to adjust to that new style of learning and I won't do as well in vet school. I don't want to start at square one again to try to discover new ways for me to study and learn the information, when I finally have a whole system down that really works for me. So basically what are your thoughts are on PBL and have you had any experience with it? If you know which schools incorporate it into their curriculum, I would love to make a list so I can look further into each one!

We use it heavily here at VMCVM. It hurts my grades, but I'm convinced it's making me a better problem solver, which means being a better vet (most of being a vet is problem solving I'm finding out).

 

[meningealworm]

Every school is incorporating some amount of PBL into its curriculum. Personally, I HATE it. Like despise with a fiery passion. The way it was implemented in a classroom setting was not remotely like being on clinics and thinking critically about cases. I felt like our lectures provided the knowledge base to allow us to put things together on clinics, and never once did I feel like we were being talked at or asked to memorize. But I also felt like the way we were tested and challenged promoted an atmosphere of critical thinking.

That being said, I know some people love the PBL thing. I also know, after working on externships and such with students who were at more PBL-based schools, that I'm even more grateful that I didn't attend one of them, because some of the descriptions I got of how they're expected to learn complicated subjects like anesthesia were mindboggling. To each their own, but also....know thyself.

 

[starfish229]

Thank you to those with the helpful responses! I think I’m going to leave this thread/stop checking back because I really didn’t mean to come off like I don’t want to do anything that involves pbl. I work full time in a vet clinic and I see how the doctors think about their cases all the time. I am also FULLY aware of the cost of vet school. I live in New Jersey ... no in-state for me which means literally any school I get into will cost me a fortune and I know that. I also didn’t realize that most schools have pbl incorporated at this point, so that’s good to know! I've just never experienced that type of critical thinking as a way of learning the information. I was curious to see what other people thought of it.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Thank you to those with the helpful responses! I think I’m going to leave this thread/stop checking back because I really didn’t mean to come off like I don’t want to do anything that involves pbl. I work full time in a vet clinic and I see how the doctors think about their cases all the time. I am also FULLY aware of the cost of vet school. I live in New Jersey ... no in-state for me which means literally any school I get into will cost me a fortune and I know that. I also didn’t realize that most schools have pbl incorporated at this point, so that’s good to know! I've just never experienced that type of critical thinking as a way of learning the information. I was curious to see what other people thought of it.

You’re going to stop checking back because you don’t like what people are saying? Or?

There’s been a lot of extremely useful info provided here. Even without an in state school, most schools in the country will be cheaper, i think that is an extremely important thing to consider. 250k in debt is a fortune, but 350k+ is even more of a fortune.

 

[cdo96]

So I only have experience from the "tutorial PBL session" given by Cornell at their accepted/waitlisted students day. I can give you a basic idea of how Cornell does it, but idk how other schools do it.

Basically you're given a packet with a case study. You go through the packet page by page (never skipping ahead--which was very tempting) with a teacher who stays mostly out of discussion except to ask questions that no one else is asking. After you read each page you go over questions like "what do we know about this case from this information?" and "what questions do you want to ask the owner?" and "what system of the body is this likely connected to?" That last question is really what drives everything. As you go along, you'll write down "learning goals." So if the case is about a chronic UTI, one of the learning goals will be to read about the urinary tract, all its components, and how UTI's happen. This is essentially your homework for the class. You come back a day or two later, report findings, and then repeat with the next page of the packet. Cornell was big on writing everything down on a whiteboard while discussing things--especially concerning things like anatomy and drawing things out. The goal was really to both teach you how to explain things to clients, how to teach you to work as a team with other vets, and how to manage a case as if you were actually the treating vet. It was forcing you to learn anatomy and concepts behind diagnostics.

I personally really like PBL. I remember walking out of the tutorial session and wanting to keep going. It felt like a puzzle and it really motivated me to want to go to the library and learn more about anatomy and physiology.

Yes, the transition to PBL is not an easy one, but vet school isn't easy.

So I guess I’m confused by PBL. Our school has the very traditional lecture style set up so I’m not comprehending how it works in vet school. So it sounds like a bunch of cases (and at the risk of sounding rude or offensive which I’m not trying to do) but when do you actually learn the stuff? Like... do you have traditional classes? Or is it just case studies? How do you incorporate the details of anatomy and physiology into the lecture if it hasn’t been taught already?

(Also it took my phys professor an entire month and a half to cover the components of the kidney so I think he’d have a stroke if you told him to do it in one day)

 

[jaboo]

So I guess I’m confused by PBL. Our school has the very traditional lecture style set up so I’m not comprehending how it works in vet school. So it sounds like a bunch of cases (and at the risk of sounding rude or offensive which I’m not trying to do) but when do you actually learn the stuff? Like... do you have traditional classes? Or is it just case studies? How do you incorporate the details of anatomy and physiology into the lecture if it hasn’t been taught already?

(Also it took my phys professor an entire month and a half to cover the components of the kidney so I think he’d have a stroke if you told him to do it in one day)

The way Cornell described it, they have PBL sessions concurrently the first 2 years corresponding to the actual lectures. So the first semester is alllll anatomy, so all the PBL cases are anatomy-related. And they design the cases to go along with what's being taught in lecture and also so that you have to review material from earlier in the semester to solve some of the cases. They still have lectures and labs and everything, but PBL is added to all of that to contextualize what you're learning and put it in a diagnostic setting.

 

[cdo96]

The way Cornell described it, they have PBL sessions concurrently the first 2 years corresponding to the actual lectures. So the first semester is alllll anatomy, so all the PBL cases are anatomy-related. And they design the cases to go along with what's being taught in lecture and also so that you have to review material from earlier in the semester to solve some of the cases. They still have lectures and labs and everything, but PBL is added to all of that to contextualize what you're learning and put it in a diagnostic setting.

Hmmm... interesting... I do not know how I feel

 

[MOOSEygoosey]

The way Cornell described it, they have PBL sessions concurrently the first 2 years corresponding to the actual lectures. So the first semester is alllll anatomy, so all the PBL cases are anatomy-related. And they design the cases to go along with what's being taught in lecture and also so that you have to review material from earlier in the semester to solve some of the cases. They still have lectures and labs and everything, but PBL is added to all of that to contextualize what you're learning and put it in a diagnostic setting.

Hmmm... interesting... I do not know how I feel

At Cornell for anatomy, essentially, (please correct me if I'm wrong about anything jboo) you have your PBL group (8 people) with the case in the morning. So, let's say they give you a case about a dog who is having trouble urinating. You're supposed to read through the case and try to figure out what's going on. For example, the tutor (a professor) might have you try to draw the urinary tract in a dog for both males and females, but will only tell you when it's correct, so it's up to the students to tell the "drawers" "oh, the kidneys are supposed to be further up" or "there needs to be a flexure in the ureter". Then, you have class after that and in the class, you learn about all of the details of the urinary tract (enhancing on what you learned in the tutor group), and then you have lab in the afternoon where you actually dissect the urinary tract. I think it's an amazing way to learn 🙂

 

[jaboo]

At Cornell for anatomy, essentially, (please correct me if I'm wrong about anything jboo) you have your PBL group (8 people) with the case in the morning. So, let's say they give you a case about a dog who is having trouble urinating. You're supposed to read through the case and try to figure out what's going on. For example, the tutor (a professor) might have you try to draw the urinary tract in a dog for both males and females, but will only tell you when it's correct, so it's up to the students to tell the "drawers" "oh, the kidneys are supposed to be further up" or "there needs to be a flexure in the ureter". Then, you have class after that and in the class, you learn about all of the details of the urinary tract (enhancing on what you learned in the tutor group), and then you have lab in the afternoon where you actually dissect the urinary tract. I think it's an amazing way to learn 🙂

I see you also went to the info session day 😉

 

[MOOSEygoosey]

I see you also went to the info session day 😉

Maybe.... 😛

 

[pp9]

So I guess I’m confused by PBL. Our school has the very traditional lecture style set up so I’m not comprehending how it works in vet school. So it sounds like a bunch of cases (and at the risk of sounding rude or offensive which I’m not trying to do) but when do you actually learn the stuff? Like... do you have traditional classes? Or is it just case studies? How do you incorporate the details of anatomy and physiology into the lecture if it hasn’t been taught already?

(Also it took my phys professor an entire month and a half to cover the components of the kidney so I think he’d have a stroke if you told him to do it in one day)

Illinois only has blips of PBL throughout the didactic years but they're all relevant to the 'theme' of the quarter we're in. For example, during endocrine-related lectures we would be given endocrine cases (without the diagnosis, but with all the diagnostics) and have to explain the case/diagnostics + results/come up with a diagnosis/treatment and defend it. Illinois uses it as a reinforcement of traditional lecture, which really helped tie up loose ends for me. We didn't really have anatomy PBL other than the classic arrow questions.

To me, PBL is a more round-about way of learning. I found it very frustrating at the time, but after you figure it out there's a big 'Ohhhhhh, I get it now.' If we didn't have PBL for something, I found it a lot harder for me to really understand the disease process. It's one thing to tell me 'Diabetes causes high blood glucose.' It's an entirely different learning process to be given a CBC/chem and being asked to evaluate it and come up with ddx based off of that and the clinical presentation (which like you know, is going to be your entire career). Hope that makes sense.

 

[cdo96]

Illinois only has blips of PBL throughout the didactic years but they're all relevant to the 'theme' of the quarter we're in. For example, during endocrine-related lectures we would be given endocrine cases (without the diagnosis, but with all the diagnostics) and have to explain the case/diagnostics + results/come up with a diagnosis/treatment and defend it. Illinois uses it as a reinforcement of traditional lecture, which really helped tie up loose ends for me. We didn't really have anatomy PBL other than the classic arrow questions.

To me, PBL is a more round-about way of learning. I found it very frustrating at the time, but after you figure it out there's a big 'Ohhhhhh, I get it now.' If we didn't have PBL for something, I found it a lot harder for me to really understand the disease process. It's one thing to tell me 'Diabetes causes high blood glucose.' It's an entirely different learning process to be given a CBC/chem and being asked to evaluate it and come up with ddx based off of that and the clinical presentation (which like you know, is going to be your entire career). Hope that makes sense.

That makes the most sense! I kinda like that! I was under the impression that it replaced traditional lecture styles and I was very concerned. I think it’d be awesome to have Monday-Thursday be traditional classes and then Friday are PBL style discussion.

 

[pp9]

That makes the most sense! I kinda like that! I was under the impression that it replaced traditional lecture styles and I was very concerned. I think it’d be awesome to have Monday-Thursday be traditional classes and then Friday are PBL style discussion.

It might at other schools, but it definitely doesn't here! We have one subject called 'Clinical Correlations' where we get our PBL. We have a very subject-based curriculum (for example, one quarter is predominately GI for all of anatomy, phys, histo, etc.). You get the traditional lecture for all of that, but x hours/week you do case based stuff. We actually had to write up a mock case study for actual hospital cases (again, we come up with our diagnosis/plan/treatment). I really like the end-product of PBL, but the active PBL process can be painful.

 

[twelvetigers]

Thank you to those with the helpful responses! I think I’m going to leave this thread/stop checking back because I really didn’t mean to come off like I don’t want to do anything that involves pbl. I work full time in a vet clinic and I see how the doctors think about their cases all the time. I am also FULLY aware of the cost of vet school. I live in New Jersey ... no in-state for me which means literally any school I get into will cost me a fortune and I know that. I also didn’t realize that most schools have pbl incorporated at this point, so that’s good to know! I've just never experienced that type of critical thinking as a way of learning the information. I was curious to see what other people thought of it.

If reading my paragraph about the debt didn't make you raise your eyebrows a little, maybe read it again.

If you went to OkSU as an out of state student, your debt would be easily half of what it would be in Pomona. Pursuing Western because you like the area is NOT worth the extra $100k cost. Ever. No way.

Man... no one ever seems like they really 'hear' us. I mean, we're here, we're in it... we're vets. We're paying back our loans. I'm in an anti-suicide group on Facebook that's specifically geared towards veterinarians, and I see all the posts about how much DEBT people are in and how much they REGRET it. I mean, every day. Every single day. And then in comes some 22 year old, and they just completely dismiss what we're saying.



This, too, could be you! Yes! Wonderful. Go ahead and do it. Brush us off. I want a forced reminder to buzz these kids back in here after six years and be like, "Now what did we learn? Do you still think it's inconsequential? Are you still FULLY aware of the cost?"

OP, person, human being that we don't want to suffer: We just want you to know. to REALLY know. I don't really think you really know, especially if your choice is to run away from this thread of honest, good people raising legitimate concerns.

Should we not even bother?

 

[twelvetigers]

Every thread from a new poster asking something that touches on what vet school is really like should have an immediate follow-up post asking if they want HONEST answers, or if they want a little head pat and told everything will be okay. They have to pick one. So when they stomp off and ignore us anyway, at least they had to ask for honesty first and can't be insulted that OMG we were negative about something, they didn't want negativity! The truth isn't always great. They can pick the "live in a bubble until it's too late to change course" option.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Am I the only one here who had PBL stuff in undergrad? I went to a small liberal arts school. A lot of profs started making 1 of the 3 classes per week more of a PBL thing where we worked in groups on packets and problems as opposed to purely lecturing. I’m talking mostly about intro and upper level bio classes. Profs said research shows students learn much better in this format as opposed to just lecturing. I personally liked the mix of the two but idk how different it would be in vet school.

 

[pp9]

Am I the only one here who had PBL stuff in undergrad? I went to a small liberal arts school. A lot of profs started making 1 of the 3 classes per week more of a PBL thing where we worked in groups on packets and problems as opposed to purely lecturing. I’m talking mostly about intro and upper level bio classes. Profs said research shows students learn much better in this format as opposed to just lecturing. I personally liked the mix of the two but idk how different it would be in vet school.

We had PBL for our chemistry/genetics/etc recitation hours. I mean, it would just be a sheet of problems and moreso a review of concepts covered in lecture that week but it was different than sitting in a traditional lecture I suppose. I went to a big 10 university.

 

[SkiOtter]

Am I the only one here who had PBL stuff in undergrad? I went to a small liberal arts school. A lot of profs started making 1 of the 3 classes per week more of a PBL thing where we worked in groups on packets and problems as opposed to purely lecturing. I’m talking mostly about intro and upper level bio classes. Profs said research shows students learn much better in this format as opposed to just lecturing. I personally liked the mix of the two but idk how different it would be in vet school.

I had a small amount in one of my upper level classes, but not too much

 

[MOOSEygoosey]

Am I the only one here who had PBL stuff in undergrad? I went to a small liberal arts school. A lot of profs started making 1 of the 3 classes per week more of a PBL thing where we worked in groups on packets and problems as opposed to purely lecturing. I’m talking mostly about intro and upper level bio classes. Profs said research shows students learn much better in this format as opposed to just lecturing. I personally liked the mix of the two but idk how different it would be in vet school.

We had something called TBL (team-based learning) and in some classes, like Physics, it worked, but in Biochem courses it DID NOT!! Essentially, lecture was replaced by sitting with teams and going over math problems, but then the exams wouldn't be relevant to that material. Physics 1 was amazing though!!!!

 

[pp9]

We had something called TBL (team-based learning) and in some classes, like Physics, it worked, but in Biochem courses it DID NOT!! Essentially, lecture was replaced by sitting with teams and going over math problems, but then the exams wouldn't be relevant to that material. Physics 1 was amazing though!!!!

Oooh we had that this past year for our 'imaging.' Waste of our time, it just didn't work in that environment.

 

[RedLauren]

Every thread from a new poster asking something that touches on what vet school is really like should have an immediate follow-up post asking if they want HONEST answers, or if they want a little head pat and told everything will be okay. They have to pick one. So when they stomp off and ignore us anyway, at least they had to ask for honesty first and can't be insulted that OMG we were negative about something, they didn't want negativity! The truth isn't always great. They can pick the "live in a bubble until it's too late to change course" option.

Unfortunately, sometimes no matter how badly you try to give someone a wake up call they put their hands over their ears and pretend not to hear you. While some people informing pre-vets of the reality of living with astronomical debt may come off as aggressive, I for one feel fortunate to have learned from the veterinarians in this community and to heed their advice.

I know that I may sound hypocritical since I’ll be attendeding Colorado state OOS, but I have very good reason - a scholarship + future IS tuition as I will soon be classified as a veteran’s dependent (yes I have talked to admissions about this).

It’s time to be an adult and make adult choices. If you plan on having a family or children or even grandchildren one day your debt will likely affect them too. 4 years in SoCal is not worth it.

 

[jaboo]

Am I the only one here who had PBL stuff in undergrad? I went to a small liberal arts school. A lot of profs started making 1 of the 3 classes per week more of a PBL thing where we worked in groups on packets and problems as opposed to purely lecturing. I’m talking mostly about intro and upper level bio classes. Profs said research shows students learn much better in this format as opposed to just lecturing. I personally liked the mix of the two but idk how different it would be in vet school.

I have a BA in bio. The biology dept. at Cornell undergrad is allllllllll over PBL. I HATED it early on because it's so different. My brain was trained to memorize and regurgitate. I had to retrain my brain when I came here. It was a struggle.

I remember one class where the exams were entirely true/false. A handful of them were diagnostic-related, mostly related to human medicine. Something along the lines of "A patient complains of stomach discomfort. There's this drug that works this way. Given this info about the patient, this drug will ease their discomfort." And there was no partial credit. You just had to sit there and think about it. I hated that class because if you didn't think about that one little caveat that may have been mentioned in lecture in passing, you'd get that answer wrong. Or even if you had good reasoning for your answer, you never got credit for it.

Something similar was done in my animal phys class but I liked it much more. It wasn't just T/F in exams, it was multiple choice and a couple short answer. It was the same idea, but you were punished less for wrong answers because you had more choices.

 

[MOOSEygoosey]

Oooh we had that this past year for our 'imaging.' Waste of our time, it just didn't work in that environment.

Yeah, I think for all classes you need to have some form of a lecture component because with the way TBL was taught in undergrad, it became essentially, a "self-taught" class (except for physics 1, but that was because we had legit the best professor!). So for stuff that's completely new and foreign, I feel like you need the lecture to give you some basics on the knowledge before you really dive in.

 

[Ashgirl]

I came from a traditional lecture-based curriculum, with one elective PBL class at the very end of our classroom time. I LOVED it. It was probably the best class I had and it was such an amazing way to pull my knowledge together and apply it.

However... I believe I would have felt differently if I only had a PBL curriculum. Personally, I think it's a wonderful supplement but not a good foundation... how can you work cases if you don 't know the basics before you start? Anyway, it obviously works for some people, though YMMV.