Procedure Heavy Body Fellowship Programs?

[tco]

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I was hoping you all could shed some light on the procedure heavy programs in the country? Biopsies, drains, ablations (all types) would be great.

I've always heard Wisconsin is one? But I don't know much more than that.

 

[colbgw02]

UCLA


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[DrfluffyMD]

BWH is one of the best body fellowship due to procedures.

 

[tco]

Thanks for your responses. I had seen the UCLA site before, but couldn't remember which program it was. It looks like they're calling themselves Cross Sectional Interventional Radiologists (at least at UCLA)? That's definitely not a term I've heard before.

I'm more on the IR side of things, but really like DR as well. I need to apply to fellowship this year, so I may include these programs in my application cycle. I realize I'd have to accept the position before the match, but it would give me time to decide.

 

[5777]

Mayo Clinic Arizona has flexible tracks that include opportunities for body procedures, if interested.

Advanced Radiology Fellowships Overview (Arizona) - Radiology - Mayo Clinic School of Graduate Medical Education

 

[tco]

Mayo Clinic Arizona has flexible tracks that include opportunities for body procedures, if interested.

Advanced Radiology Fellowships Overview (Arizona) - Radiology - Mayo Clinic School of Graduate Medical Education

That's an interesting format.

 

[Rads312]

Doesn't matter all that much - regardless if you do a procedure heavy fellowship, in practice it's unlikely you'll be doing those procedures. IR will be handling a lot of that stuff.

 

[tco]

Doesn't matter all that much - regardless if you do a procedure heavy fellowship, in practice it's unlikely you'll be doing those procedures. IR will be handling a lot of that stuff.

This isn't true.

In practice, you do what you're comfortable with and what your practice wants you to do. Often, that can include lines, biopsies, and drains. That's low hanging fruit that IR doesn't want to deal with.

I'm likely going to match IR, but I wanted to know which programs do ablations, kyphoplasty , etc. because at the very least, I want to do some procedures. Some days, I really enjoy diagnostics to the point that I think I'll miss it...But ultimately, I think I'll do a body heavy fourth year and IR fellowship. The practice I'm talking to is perfectly fine with us reading imaging in addition to procedures.

 

[Rads312]

This isn't true.

In practice, you do what you're comfortable with and what your practice wants you to do. Often, that can include lines, biopsies, and drains. That's low hanging fruit that IR doesn't want to deal with.

I'm likely going to match IR, but I wanted to know which programs do ablations, kyphoplasty , etc. because at the very least, I want to do some procedures. Some days, I really enjoy diagnostics to the point that I think I'll miss it...But ultimately, I think I'll do a body heavy fourth year and IR fellowship. The practice I'm talking to is perfectly fine with us reading imaging in addition to procedures.

I strongly disagree. That may be low hanging fruit when it comes to a thyroid biopsy or a LP, but there is NO way in private practice a body person is going to do lines or liver biopsies, abdominal drains. I'm in a major city and familiar with all the local groups - IR handles all these things PLUS the complex procedures. The exception is at large academic/training centers with fellows of course - but if you're planning on private practice after fellowship, forget about it.

 

[Rads312]

PS - practice you're talking to?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that a body person is doing liver biopsies, abscess drainages, etc in the real world. It just doesn't happen outside academia in my experience.

 

[meister]

Sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with smaller groups then. It most certainly does happen.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

A lot of body guys do body procedures or even ablations. They are out there.

 

[qxrt]

I strongly disagree. That may be low hanging fruit when it comes to a thyroid biopsy or a LP, but there is NO way in private practice a body person is going to do lines or liver biopsies, abdominal drains. I'm in a major city and familiar with all the local groups - IR handles all these things PLUS the complex procedures. The exception is at large academic/training centers with fellows of course - but if you're planning on private practice after fellowship, forget about it.

I'm in a major city, and there are several private practice groups in this area where CT and US-guided procedures are done by the CT body radiologists, NOT IR. Even one of our prior body fellows rotated in IR, as their future private practices occasionally ask them to even do things like nephrostomies (now that extent, I don't imagine is too common, but does happen).

And why not? It's not as if CT or US-guided drainages or biopsies are all that difficult in many cases; at most training places a mid-to-senior resident can take care of them somewhat autonomously.

 

[tco]

PS - practice you're talking to?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that a body person is doing liver biopsies, abscess drainages, etc in the real world. It just doesn't happen outside academia in my experience.

Yes, the practice that I'm talking to for a potential job. I'm an R3, but I want to return home and there's only 2 or 3 practices in the area, and one of them is in academics. I think I'm going to at least start in PP.

What you are describing is the exact opposite of what I've experienced. In my residency's center (one of the largest in the world) and in my home medical school (a small medical school in the eastern midwest), IR does everything. The body folk read images and throw some barium around. In the PPs I've seen/talked to, the IR guys do most of the higher end stuff and anyone who feels comfortable with it does lines, drains, and biopsies.

Anyway, we're really digressing. Who cares what either of us thinks is correct? That wasn't the point of the thread. I guess I'll just be taking an enormous risk if I do a procedure heavy body fellowship and my practice doesn't let me do the procedures 😉

 

[Radology]

Many Small groups have a big need for light IR and except all hires to do hem.

For Big private practice groups it is exceedingly uncommon to do anything more than thyroid fnas and the occasional biopsy.

Academics can be a ton of procedures or none, depending on the department

 

[Tiger100]

Even in small groups most procedures are handled by IR.

It is not about who can do what. It is mostly about efficacy and time restraints. It is a waste of time for DR radiologist workflow to do Lines and drains. Thyroid FNAs and occasional LPs are probably exceptions.

IR can handle lines and drains better and even if not, at least they can do it faster. FASTER is the key in private practice.

 

[bjb305]

I was hoping you all could shed some light on the procedure heavy programs in the country? Biopsies, drains, ablations (all types) would be great.

I've always heard Wisconsin is one? But I don't know much more than that.

Vanderbilt.. all biopsies drains are done by the body section not IR and the fellows do a lot of it

 

[vm26]

I was hoping you all could shed some light on the procedure heavy programs in the country? Biopsies, drains, ablations (all types) would be great.

I've always heard Wisconsin is one? But I don't know much more than that.

UC Davis...plenty of bread and butter light IR (biopsies, drains) and RFA with McGahan. Also strong body MR and solid 8 weeks of elective time (which can be used in breast, msk etc)...Sacramento is also a decent place to live for a year. Good weather, not too expensive, and about 2 hours from SF, Napa, and Tahoe