Process of applying for EM aways for 4th year?

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chillaxbro

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I'm nearing the end of MS3 and am interested in EM. Can someone walk me through the process/timing of applying for aways? When should I start? What is the optimal time for the rotations? BTW I dont know my schedule for MS4 yet

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1. Most aways rely on VSAS. Your school will set you up with an account. Each VSAS school opens their applications at slightly different times, and they generally publish those dates on their VSAS home page. You apply there and wait.

2. Some programs have a pre-VSAS application. Pitt, IU, CMC are 3 I happen to know of, but there are more. Be ready to apply to those in early January. I'd recommend trolling residency websites to find out which schools have that early process. Some are semi-secret early apps, so I'd ask around to current 4th years for advice. A warning: some programs specifically prohibit contacting them to ask about aways (UK, I think, may be one), so proceed with caution.

3. Optimal time: home rotation (if that's an option) plus 2 aways, all done by mid-to-late August or so. That gives all programs time to submit their SLOEs by Sept 30, which is roughly when your ERAS app is live for the places you applied. August isn't possible for every school's schedule, obviously, but that'd be the ideal. Many programs require 1-2 SLOEs for an interview offer, so don't push it too much. Also: many people do aways into October and are fine, but again, get some done early so you can get those SLOEs in by Sept 30.

4. I'm sure some of the above is just my experience, so I'm hoping others chime in.
 
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I'm not doing EM, but my boyfriend went through this process this year and I just wanted to suggest that you apply to a healthy number of programs. EM aways can be competitive for the months they're needed, from what I've heard. My boyfriend decided to only apply to a few, it worked out okay for him, but was nerve wracking for awhile.


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Be wary of the VSAS dates. Set up an email alert for your desired programs.

Both my aways were places I highly desired so I had my app complete and ready to submit months before their published opening dates on VSAS.

Low and behold, both opened on VSAS 4-6 weeks earlier than they stated. I was able to just log in and click submit on a complete application minutes later. However, some of my classmates had to take a few days to scramble and put their app together, they ended up not getting a spot

Granted this was for a highly desired and competitive west coast spot, but just get your stuff ready earlier next semester.
 
1. Most aways rely on VSAS. Your school will set you up with an account. Each VSAS school opens their applications at slightly different times, and they generally publish those dates on their VSAS home page. You apply there and wait.

2. Some programs have a pre-VSAS application. Pitt, IU, CMC are 3 I happen to know of, but there are more. Be ready to apply to those in early January. I'd recommend trolling residency websites to find out which schools have that early process. Some are semi-secret early apps, so I'd ask around to current 4th years for advice. A warning: some programs specifically prohibit contacting them to ask about aways (UK, I think, may be one), so proceed with caution.

3. Optimal time: home rotation (if that's an option) plus 2 aways, all done by mid-to-late August or so. That gives all programs time to submit their SLOEs by Sept 30, which is roughly when your ERAS app is live for the places you applied. August isn't possible for every school's schedule, obviously, but that'd be the ideal. Many programs require 1-2 SLOEs for an interview offer, so don't push it too much. Also: many people do aways into October and are fine, but again, get some done early so you can get those SLOEs in by Sept 30.

4. I'm sure some of the above is just my experience, so I'm hoping others chime in.


I'm OMS II, dk much but trying to learn, so I apologize preemptively for my stupidity. I was recently told that many programs dont allow aways in July b/c of new residents and that sooner is not considered a 4th year. So how are people getting 3 rotations done by mid to late August? Do most schools release people earlier or are people doing more 2 week rotations? I was under the impression that 2 week rotations weren't good enough to get SLOEs and that you really want to do 4 week rotations.

TL/DR: when do most people start and when do Step/Level 2 come into play?
 
I'm OMS II, dk much but trying to learn, so I apologize preemptively for my stupidity. I was recently told that many programs dont allow aways in July b/c of new residents and that sooner is not considered a 4th year. So how are people getting 3 rotations done by mid to late August? Do most schools release people earlier or are people doing more 2 week rotations? I was under the impression that 2 week rotations weren't good enough to get SLOEs and that you really want to do 4 week rotations.

TL/DR: when do most people start and when do Step/Level 2 come into play?


People are doing home rotations in May or June, away July, +/- away in August. I haven't heard that programs don't allow aways in July, but I may be misinformed. Yes a true SLOE is from a 4 week EM Sub-I. It's really become quite an aggressive process, unfortunately.
 
I'm OMS II, dk much but trying to learn, so I apologize preemptively for my stupidity. I was recently told that many programs dont allow aways in July b/c of new residents and that sooner is not considered a 4th year. So how are people getting 3 rotations done by mid to late August? Do most schools release people earlier or are people doing more 2 week rotations? I was under the impression that 2 week rotations weren't good enough to get SLOEs and that you really want to do 4 week rotations.

TL/DR: when do most people start and when do Step/Level 2 come into play?

Some places do limit rotators while their interns are getting up to speed, so this is something to consider. However, I'd still apply to places based on your schedule, not theirs, but be flexible and adaptable. The process is painful, but I thought the aways were fun. A few places did not let "non-4th years" apply, but what they really mean were students who were not done with their core rotations. I was able to get all my core 3rd year rotations done early and persuaded a few places to take me early; doable, but I wouldn't count on it. Don't bother with 2 week rotations.
 
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How do you go about even choosing what places to audition at if you have no preference in location? (DO)
 
How do you go about even choosing what places to audition at if you have no preference in location? (DO)

Think about where you want to be when you are done with training, professionally, and then try and find a program that will help get you there. For example, my interests have focused on prehospital stuff so I focused on places that had leaders in those niches and non-clinical experiences in the areas I was interested in, as well as fellowship opportunities in the sub-specialty I wanted (this is more of a function of not wanting to move, YMMV). As a DO, I know your access to large academic centers is limited, so I think you should also consider looking at county, community, and academic programs. I know we all think we know which we prefer (I did), but these preferences can change (mine did) after being exposed to these different training environments.

Not having a geographical preference does give you a lot of flexibility, but it seems hard to believe; when it comes down to where you'd want to spend what little free time you have, do you really find the entire US interchangeable? If so, good on you. If you haven't had a chance to see other parts of the country, this is a great opportunity.

I know it is stressful to setup and coordinate, but the audition season was definitely my favorite part of medical school. Good luck.
 
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People are doing home rotations in May or June, away July, +/- away in August. I haven't heard that programs don't allow aways in July, but I may be misinformed. Yes a true SLOE is from a 4 week EM Sub-I. It's really become quite an aggressive process, unfortunately.

Thanks a ton! A few of us are talking about approaching our school to ask about revamping the schedule and releasing us earlier, especially since we dont have a home program. We're "released" in late june/July to start 4th yr rotations. I'm trying to gather info on how much of a disadvantage it is to us to be released that late and what other schools are doing before we go to them though.
 
How do you go about even choosing what places to audition at if you have no preference in location? (DO)

Passing along knowledge I have gleaned from current fourth years, this forum, and Program Directors I've been lucky enough to talk with:

If you want to do EM and are a DO, plan on doing at least 2 aways for 2 SLOEs. Pick programs that have taken DOs in the past (find this on the EMRA match website, filter for 1-10% DO's and higher, I'd recommend over 10% if possible). This is very important. You can have an awesome SLOE until you get to the section on where you would be ranked on their Rank Order List. If they're being honest, and their institution doesn't match DO's, this could be a lower 1/3 for your SLOE. Some PD's look past that and consider everything. Some may not. I also wouldn't plan on much of an AOA match next year. Many programs will fill out of it, but the number of programs will be down even from this year. Many programs are getting their initial accreditation, and may not be eligible for the AOA match if they go 3 years.

Schedule your aways early by not using VSAS. VSAS programs by and large seem to wait until after they've gotten their students set up for the year and many are just now accepting applications, and processing them in May or June. VSAS can be useful, but has been a major headache for me, as a lot of aspects of the site aren't explained well. Immunization forms take a long time to get filled out if they don't use the AAMC standardized form. Some sites even require your PCP fill out your immunization form. Some sites require a Step 1 score to be accepted. Not Level 1, it must be Step 1.

So, if you're preparing for COMLEX Level 1, take Step 1. Same goes for Step 2. If you haven't taken Step 1, you have to take Step 2. It's expensive, it's more time, it sucks. But, as a DO, you have to level the playing field. With the merger, don't handicap yourself by not taking it. Unless you're worried you might fail. Obviously a Step failure is worse than not having it. Think of it from a PD's POV: Their dean comes into their office after the match. Dean: "So we had X student from our MD school not match at your program. I see you took Y DO student. Why did you take Y over X?" The PD has to answer that question. Is it the best way to look at things? Maybe not, but that is a very real scenario. As a DO, you're walking into interview season with a degree that some PD's see as a red flag. You cannot give them any other reason to throw out your application.

I was told first year of med school that as a DO, you have to do everything the MD student does, but better. If Step 1 average in that specialty is a 230, get a 240. If they require 2 SLOEs, get 3. If they have an average of 2 volunteer activities do at least 3. You get the idea. It gives you an inferiority complex for sure, but hopefully at the end of it all, you match and you get to become a physician in the specialty you want. Obviously, not everyone can do all of these things, but do the best you can. DO's match into EM, AOA and ACGME, with less but don't hang your hat on that. Do everything you can to make yourself competitive.

Racerwad said:
Think about where you want to be when you are done with training, professionally, and then try and find a program that will help get you there.
And this. You have to be very mindful of where you want to be in many different ways. Do you want to be an attending at an academic institution, doing research and teaching residents/medical students? Do you want to be a community doc? If geography isn't limiting to you, it can be on your application. You're more likely to get interviews from programs in your med school region than from outside it. If you want to do residency in an area and your school isn't in that area/you're not from that area, you NEED to do an away in that area as a DO. Geography bias can happen. Going back to my earlier point: Don't give them a reason to not take a look at you.
 
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